Why are you booing Cakelover? They're right! According to the UN Committee on Food Security we produce enough food for 12 billion people and the population is only 8 billion. The problem is we don't distribute that food. Housing is another problem that could be remedied but we just don't. The earth isn't overpopulated. Our systems just suck at resource management and allocation.
No dv from me. This is correct- but true and correct are nuanced. That is to say “overpopulated” is relative and not necessarily a function of capacity, put lives are full of places where long before absolute optimized capacity is met, we feel unpleasant effects of “over crowding.” Efficiency is hampered because usually it requires effort and changes like thinking or planning more and doing with less which many don’t want. We tend to not “give in” to such efficiencies until we are effectively forced to. This is especially true of places like the USA where both an abundance of excess and waste as well as a general attitude towards individual freedom are almost sacred and people proudly waste and cause trouble because “it’s their right” or “they can.”
So the overpopulation argument is usually a selfish one- it is one coming from a place of not wanting to do with less. The same is generally true when we speak of the “costs of kids” and “the world today” arguments. Those points are…
.. about the speaker. One can argue they are “thinking of the kid..” but that’s a ridiculous argument logically. No matter how poor you are or how horrible the world is- since humans lived in caves and spent their lives mostly scared and starving into the fall of dynasties and empires like Rome, world wars and volcanos and more- most humans have wanted to survive. So while a few people here or there may genuinely and actually “wish they were never born..” it is very easy to fix that. Most people don’t actually wish they were dead. The world is full of people who have things worse than we do and love life. Life is a gift and anyone who says otherwise is full of shit unless you find that out through their suicide note. Almost every generation is old folks saying how much worse things are. How sorry they are for kids “today.” As politics shift we get liberal minded people in places like Iran that moan for the kids growing up under conservatives. We get conservatives like those from…
.. ex confederate/Jim Crow states moaning how kids have to grow up in a liberal world. “The crime is worse now..” “entertainment has no value..” “kids can’t be kids…” “the economy..” today people bitch about how hard is is to get a home but what about the people born right after they stopped giving away homesteads in massive acreage?
People often bemoan urban sprawl but they also bemoan it when cities collapse. Would all Detroit's problems be solved if we turned it into rural townships? Life sucks and life is amazing. It alternates across time and a single life on a shorter scale.
There are lots of reasons not to have kids or want kids. People should be free to choose and we don’t need to judge people for their choices. I had a partner once who was very honest- they didn’t want kids because they liked being free to do what they wanted. They liked having the time and money and lack of responsibility. No kids, no pets. They only wanted to live a life about what they wanted as much as possible. That’s fair and honest. These are things are merely “justifications” to try and make one’s decision seem larger than what it is. These excuses usually are used by people who are not as concerned for the child as themselves, and I’m not saying that’s wrong, I’m saying they should try to understand themselves better and be honest. They may be like my former partner- their focus may be on the quality of their own life and other priorities.
Often times they are just scared. They may feel like they can’t handle the responsibility and commitment. They may fear the changes and challenges kids will bring their lives. I knew a woman once who was terrified to have kids because of all the bad things that might happen to them, that they may die or be hurt. Life involves being hurt and it 99.999% for sure involves dying. Again- most people don’t want to die and get upset over it. They want more time to live. The death of a child can be an unimaginable loss, but not so much to the child. Dead people are dead, but most wanted to live and so one thing we know is they were happy to have lived. Meaning that it makes no sense that one fears pain or death FOR the child, they are really afraid of the pain they would feel if that happened. Of course by the same token as it is foolish to think a child would rather not be born than experience pain, denying ourselves things because we might lose them is quite foolish.
You’ll lose everything. The law of the universe as we know it is that everything is impermanent. Your friends, your jobs, everything you love will be gone one day. You may be gone before those things- the end result is the same. You lose them in the functional sense of life. So rejecting happiness or the chance of happiness because you might one day lose that- not dating or getting married because your spouse might tragically die, not taking your dream job because they might some day fire you, not going to Disney World because if you are having fun, the park will close down and you’ll have to go home… foolish.
Some people do not want kids or have decided against it. That’s ok. It CAN be selfish, most of the time it probably is. That said- most of the time HAVING kids is a selfish choice. “How is it selfish to give a gift of life?!” Really? Yes, having kids creates a life, but most people have kids for a bunch of reasons and they amount to “because I want to.” “Because I believe it will make me happy.” It is a genera biological instinct and instinct isn’t high minded and philosophical, it is about selfishness. You are making sure your genetic lineage continues. You are making sure you have a “legacy” and that elements of who you are and all the hard work and wealth and knowledge of your life continues after your death. You want to have a cute baby, you want to dress it up, you want to be called “mommy/daddy/whatever” and have the experiences and memories of raising a child. You want there to be a creature that loves you unconditionally and can help care for you when you get older…
.. you want grandchildren. You want to make sure your culture/family line/nation/ideology/group/whatever remain strong and relevant and don’t disappear or get swallowed up. You are bored, you’ve seen and done what you wanted to and now this is novel. You want some impact on your relationships- with the other parent or with your parents or whatever else. You want to mold and shape a mind, you want to create something with value. You think or feel that this child will somehow give you meaning or credibility blah blah blah.
There are as many or more selfish reasons to have a child than there are not to.
But having or not having children can have selfish or altruistic aspects regardless of your motivations. WHY you want or do not want a child doesn’t change that.
Most of what we say on the subject t is more likely justification and is subjective.
So the overpopulation argument is usually a selfish one- it is one coming from a place of not wanting to do with less. The same is generally true when we speak of the “costs of kids” and “the world today” arguments. Those points are…
People often bemoan urban sprawl but they also bemoan it when cities collapse. Would all Detroit's problems be solved if we turned it into rural townships? Life sucks and life is amazing. It alternates across time and a single life on a shorter scale.
There are as many or more selfish reasons to have a child than there are not to.
But having or not having children can have selfish or altruistic aspects regardless of your motivations. WHY you want or do not want a child doesn’t change that.
Most of what we say on the subject t is more likely justification and is subjective.