Love HAS saved us though, for those who accept it and are faithful to God unto death. "For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life. For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but to save the world through him." :)
I don't know but I would hope God would favor a morally righteous person without faith more than a completely morally flawed person who goes to church every Sunday. At least that's how I see God.
The quotes are directly from the bible. :) John 3:16-17.
@megara, thank you. :)
@antongustavos - God is clear about the condemnation of the unrepentant sinner. 2nd Thessalonians 1:8. We're ALL sinners (Rom. 3:23), but for those sinners that take the necessary steps to REMOVE the condemnation from OUR sins, WE will be saved by Jesus. :)
@fronan - there's some truth to what you speak. The lose phrase I've always heard is "going through the motions". Just because a person's butt is in a pew every Sunday and Wednesday does NOT equal favor from God. It takes our heart to be involved, in obedience, love, thankfulness, service, kindness, etc. God will judge ALL people when He sees fit to do so. He will use the bible and His Son, Christ as the standard by which we are judged. For those who chose not to willingly accept Christ as who He is and be an obedient servant to God, well... the outlook for your soul is NOT good, I'm afraid. :(
Now you see that's where I get lost. As far as I have understood, god loves everyone, right? If that is the case, I assume he would like all to get into heaven. But in order to do that, you must be a good human being, and also have faith in him. In my mind, he should make some sort of "contact" to those that doesn't believe in him, in order for them to have faith. Yes, technically that wouldn't be faith, it would be knowing, but still. Then there is also those people that say that "you didn't saved that girl, god spiritually commanded you to. you don't do something unless god invokes you to." And if it like that, that we doesn't act upon our own mindset, but on what god invokes us to do, does that also mean that god invokes people to rape, murder and steal? Or would those people be invoked by Satan? You see, for me, that only sounds like excuses to make Christianity sound perfect.
Sorry for the long post, you just seemed well-read on the subject and i love a good discussion :P
Okay there's a lot here. First, God will NEVER definitively PROVE His existence to ALL people because then ALL would believe. It takes faith to please God. Read Hebrews 11:6. :) Oh but first, read Heb. 11:1. Faith is the conviction of things not seen, and the assurance of things hoped for. I'm convicted that God exists, even though I can't see Him, and by faith I have the assurance of spending eternity with Him in Heaven (my hope). :)
Now as for the concept of choice. God gave ALL humans the concept of choice. Blue pill, or the red pill? Pancakes or waffles today? Despite the fact that God is all knowing (He's not limited in any way, like we are), He doesn't CONTROL us. If a drunk wants to get behind the wheel of a car and winds up killing someone, that was HIS choice to (initial choice to become inebriated) to do so, though not necessarily to kill someone. For those who do good, and for those who do evil, ALL choices have consequences (good and bad). God will judge us all.
You see, that's where my problem with religion is. I can't believe in something just because someone says so, even is that someone is like what, 90% of the worlds population? I need proof. I don't believe in god, and I probably never will. I'd love to be wrong tho. If I'm wrong, I win :)
Well hold on, remember Hebrews 6:1. Without faith it's impossible to please God. So if one doesn't believe in God, the outlook for your soul is NOT good. :( Remember 2nd Thess. 1:8! D:
If it's a polite and educated disagreement I don't see a problem.
We should all call the Pope and see what the official Catholic perspective is on this. Even if we're not Catholic (I'm not) the basic Christian principles apply all across all denominations.
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I joke. Don't contact the Pope. I'm sure he's too busy. Go to your local bishop of your archdiocese.
Well understand that God's way is right and perfect and only produces good things when exercised properly. God ALWAYS has our best interests at heart if we just listened to Him. It's not Burger King - you can't have it your way and expect to go to Heaven, it JUST doesn't work that way. God loves everyone and doesn't want ANYONE to perish. I promise you that all that I have said is biblically accurate. I wouldn't speak on it if I wasn't certain. I urge you to heed, not my words, but God's words. I am His humble servant. :)
All you have said is biblically accurate. However, you could (slight possibility) of misinterpreting but you're passing the message in good faith. In order to not have this slight possibility of misunderstanding, I still think going to a recognized Christian authority would be a good move; an experienced pastor for example? c31107 doesn't have to do this, anyone who's curious can ask a friend (I'm sure everyone has at least one Christian friend) to introduce them to their pastor because they have some questions.
(Good) Mormons believe that Heavenly Father/God loves all his children no matter what, and wants all to return to Him. If we can't quite make it in this life, we still have the ability to learn and help after death before what's considered the "judgement day." And literally the only sin you could commit that would prevent this is seeing Jesus Christ, knowing it is Him, and then blatantly denying it.
There are pleasant online chatrooms manned by missionaries of both genders and most cultures if that got too confusing.
You're all welcome to investigate the truth of what I've spoken, but I'll warn you with this... Jesus Himself warned us about false teachers - those who'd actively seek out an intent to deceive. Keep in mind also that if you look hard enough, you'll ALWAYS be able to find someone who will tell you that what you're doing/want to do/ is acceptable - I'm sure there are "communities" of pedophiles, or rapists, etc in the world somewhere (making my point). All of what I've said is true and accurate and we have ALL we need to inherit eternal life - nothing more. 2nd Pet. 1:3.
Besides, most all of the things I've stated I've given you BCV (Book, Chapter and Verse) for anyhow. Read 2nd Timothy 3:16. If you wanna argue with God, that is your choice, but you'll lose every time.
Undoubtedly. However, you're not a member of the clergy nor are you officially educated in the Christian ways correct? This doesn't make your statements any less valid, it just makes me want to find an official member of the clergy and ask them.
@megara, thank you. :)
@antongustavos - God is clear about the condemnation of the unrepentant sinner. 2nd Thessalonians 1:8. We're ALL sinners (Rom. 3:23), but for those sinners that take the necessary steps to REMOVE the condemnation from OUR sins, WE will be saved by Jesus. :)
@fronan - there's some truth to what you speak. The lose phrase I've always heard is "going through the motions". Just because a person's butt is in a pew every Sunday and Wednesday does NOT equal favor from God. It takes our heart to be involved, in obedience, love, thankfulness, service, kindness, etc. God will judge ALL people when He sees fit to do so. He will use the bible and His Son, Christ as the standard by which we are judged. For those who chose not to willingly accept Christ as who He is and be an obedient servant to God, well... the outlook for your soul is NOT good, I'm afraid. :(
Sorry for the long post, you just seemed well-read on the subject and i love a good discussion :P
Now as for the concept of choice. God gave ALL humans the concept of choice. Blue pill, or the red pill? Pancakes or waffles today? Despite the fact that God is all knowing (He's not limited in any way, like we are), He doesn't CONTROL us. If a drunk wants to get behind the wheel of a car and winds up killing someone, that was HIS choice to (initial choice to become inebriated) to do so, though not necessarily to kill someone. For those who do good, and for those who do evil, ALL choices have consequences (good and bad). God will judge us all.
We should all call the Pope and see what the official Catholic perspective is on this. Even if we're not Catholic (I'm not) the basic Christian principles apply all across all denominations.
-
I joke. Don't contact the Pope. I'm sure he's too busy. Go to your local bishop of your archdiocese.
There are pleasant online chatrooms manned by missionaries of both genders and most cultures if that got too confusing.
Besides, most all of the things I've stated I've given you BCV (Book, Chapter and Verse) for anyhow. Read 2nd Timothy 3:16. If you wanna argue with God, that is your choice, but you'll lose every time.
It was this.
Slamming right into my feels.