Sorry people can say what they want as long as it's not endangering the lives/well being of someone else. this includes jokes that you find unfunny, offensive, rude, etc. Threatening to sexually assault someone (which that would be) is not an appropriate response.
I don't think I entirely agree with you- not about the 'threatening to sexually assault someone' part, but about the 'people can say whatever they want' part. What if someone's joking about how much they'd love to rape that one hot girl in class? That's just as much a sexual assault threat as telling someone you're going to shove a dildo up their ass. Not all jokes are harmless. Not all jokes are okay. People can't just say whatever joke they want and not expect some sort of repercussion. So I don't necessarily agree with you on that.
I think rape jokes are wrong because it's a huge trigger to some people. It's highly inappropriate and dangerous and inconsiderate. People make Holocaust jokes (even though they probably shouldn't) because chances of running into a Holocaust survivor or one of their children is very slim. In America, someone is sexually assaulted every 2 minutes. 1 in 5 women (Yes it happens to men, but for the sake of this reply I'm just going to focus on women) are raped or sexually assaulted. Your chances of running into someone who was raped is very high. People do not understand how rape completely screws up and destroys your mental health, and it takes years to rebuild that, but can be torn down in just seconds by a trigger because someone thought it would be funny to joke about am action that completely a trips away a person's security and their innocence and their well-being and any kind of self worth they had. These jokes are damaging.
Thank you morganwinchester, I definitely agree. Not only are rape jokes triggering (not just for women, but for the men who have been raped, as well), it also makes rape itself seem like a joke, and makes rape victims feel even more worthless than I'm sure they already do. It makes them feel like no one cares that they were raped or that no one cares about their feelings. It makes rape victims feel more ashamed and makes them feel like they're to blame for what happened to them. It makes them feel like no one is ever going to take their sexual assault seriously. Rape jokes dilute the severity of actual rape. When you make a rape joke, you're not just making a joke, you're taking possible justice away from actual rape victims; you're taking away their healing process and reopening their wounds.
BULL. SHIT. I'm sorry but as someone who went through this thing (I don't want to use the word 'victim' because it makes me seem like a weakling), I disagree. Maybe it's different for women who have been through this recently, but for me, 10 or 11 years have already passed and I dealt with it. "Reopening wounds?" Ha! When you go through some heavy stuff, you learn to put armor on these wounds, and you become stronger.
My advice to people who went through this kind of stuff: YOU ARE STRONG (I can't stress this enough). Armor yourself, but don't try to bury this memory, because it will resurface anyway, and many things will remind you of it. The truth is, you will NEVER avoid being reminded of it, even if some jokes get censored. Instead, accept it as a part of your past, even though an unpleasant one. Whining won't change the past, but you know what will help? Dealing with it.
My advice to you: don't use other people's experience as an excuse to spout your crap.
"Don't use other people's experience to spout your crap."
Actually I was sexually abused until I was 15 years old, thank you very fucking much. I'm not using anybody else's experience except my own, but nice try. You know what would actually help? People not making jokes about things this serious that actually do hurt. Congratulations that you're over it. Rape has fucking side effects that some people are still in the process of healing from and just because you can handle it better doesn't mean someone else isn't having a hard enough time managing it.
Oh I'm sorry I didn't realize this was a fucking competition about who had it worse.
At least you know what it's like, but can your comrades say the same? For one person who went through this there's at least five others who just use it as an excuse for hate. And as I already said, there's a million factors that can and will remind you of what happened, and jokes are about one percent of it. Anything can be a "trigger". You can look down the street and get "triggered". You can look at a person with a specific hair colour and it will be a "trigger". By the way, you know what the strongest memory trigger is? Smell. You are much more likely to return to a bad memory by smelling cologne than hearing a joke. I don't see people banning colognes. This whole "campaign" about censoring jokes is thus useless, because speech is one of the last things that can trigger a bad memory.
The best thing you can do is to make peace with your past. Also, you can't just limit the right of free speech.
"Oh I'm sorry I didn't realize this was a fucking competition about who had it worse" - I don't see any of that in morganwinchesters posting. My impression is though, you make it a competition who is coping "better" with shit. Also I know of women and men who are deeply offendend by rape jokes and have never been raped at all. Those the "comrades" you mentioned?
Funsubstance what happened -_- some jokes are funnier than others, but free speech shouldn't be taken away because people get offended. This post on tumblr was a joke too.
Who says anything against freedom of speech? FoS does not mean nobody can express dissent with your opinion, it's not a oneway. And it does not mean especially one can say anything at all without occasionally coming across as helluva douche to a significant number of people around him/her. If that stops anyone from making rape jokes around me, fine with me.
http://theshake.com.au/wp-content/uploads/2013/07/offended.jpg https://pbs.twimg.com/media/B1KpY5dCUAAsYsl.jpg
Yes, those are exactly the people I mean. Also the kind who use it as an excuse to bash someone, which is what I wrote in the previous comment. Funny how you conveniently ignored that part, and also the part where I name all the things that can cause a memory trigger, apart from jokes.
This is what really annoys me, you guys take one sentence and transform it into an argument or quote it or whatever while completely ignoring the actual message that was in the remaining 90% of the comment.
A quote taken out of context is still a quote that can by itself hold some meaning, and even though Fry himself may be hypocritical in some things as the article states (and it's just an article about opinions, there are little to none actual facts in it, just the author's opinion on Fry's "bigotry", not a reliable source of information), this is a quote I agree with. People are too fragile nowadays. I don't agree with the context in which he meant it, but the quote itself can be used with more than the one context.
And I must point out that, yet again, you showed your perfectly polished FS (or BS?) ability. You wait for a sentence or a word to appear in someone's comment so you can attack it with your full arsenal while ignoring the rest of the comment. This renders the whole conversation pointless as you can't focus on the message as a whole and just pick on tiny flaws that you can attack.
How am I missing a point when I just aim at what I quoted? I am not commenting any of your other points, so what am I missing? And what exactly is the context that turns what I quoted into non-bullshit? You have your way to deal with things, and thats fine, so how would I comment any of that? What I comment though is you bullying someone else for having a different opinion, probably based on being a different person with different experiences. Just deal with it.
You missed my most important point, which is that jokes like these are very rare, and even if they weren't as rare as they already are, you're much more likely to get triggered by a fuckload of other tiny details that subconsciously remind you of it, such as someone saying a phrase that has absolutely nothing to do with rape, or someone's hair or eye color, or smelling a perfume etcetera, thus it's completely and utterly pointless to try to prevent people from joking about it. (This is basic psychology.)
Besides, one of the most efficient ways to cope with a thing you have no means of changing is to laugh at it. Dwelling on the past and sulking helps no one. (This is my experience.)
It's funny how I'm the one who "bullies" people while you and the previous commenters would gladly limit the freedom of speech by banning rape jokes. As far as I'm concerned, I'm not limiting anyone. I'm just disproving efforts to limit other people. (This is my opinion.)
Uhm, where do I advocate any bans at all? I am offended by most everything that's said on Fox, I actually believe they are a danger to democracy, but I would never dream of banning them. I believe in total freedom of speech, but that should include me as well, right? So
how dare you pseudolibertarian fruitcake try and limit me in taking offense in whatever I want to? You want free speech for Bill O'Reilly? Take Bill Maher.
Umm...offended people usually try to get rid of/limit things they're offended about, and it's also what the previous commenters wrote, that people shouldn't make them because it's wrong. You joined this argument on their side, so I assumed that just like them, you wanted to get rid of people making these jokes. Sorry if you're offended by this generalization.
Applying a general rule learned from previous observations is pretty normal logic actually. It's called induction and deduction, look it up.
There's nothing wrong with assuming what people's intentions are, either. It's also just elementary logic.
I'm not limited in any way by not acknowledging your special snowflake status, although I should've seen earlier that you didn't really assume the side of morgan and alxx. They at least fought for their opinion because of personal experience, whereas you just came in as the person who is baselessly offended by everything. Your calling me "limited" also holds no base, and is just as assumptious of you as guessing your intentions was of me. By those laws I could call you limited as well, but I'm not going to, lest you get offended again. Funny how the first ones to get offended are also the first ones to start spitting personal insults. How very eloquent and tactful of you, by the way.
Oh, so as I have already started spitting insults, lets go full monty and get it on by applying some heuristics learned by previous observations: actually it seems to me you started screaming hysterically at a version of yourself you detest for being weak and whiny, as opposed to your more desired version of being such a tough bitch. Ya, seems youre doing just fine with the coping thing.
There's a difference between insulting someone's opinion/point of view and them as a person. I have nothing against the previous commenters personally, I only strongly disagree with what they wrote. I tried to keep it general for the time being. You, however, have decided to make it personal for some reason (probably inferiority complex or mental unstability). You are unable to withstand the fact that your arguments are mostly empty and decided to take the low road instead of actually trying to bring light into this situation. A coward's move.
"You, however, have decided to make it personal for some reason (probably inferiority complex or mental unstability). " Pumkin', the 50s have called and asked for their debate club pathos
Another completely empty argument. You have a gift for ranting but saying nothing in the end, you know? You should use it more wisely, like becoming a politician. I'm still waiting for your arguments to actually have a point, because so far there is none.
Educate yourself what censorship means, cause it is actually around, and it is a serious matter. Censorship is not telling some douchy fratboys to shut it.
The person telling the joke doesn't necessarily think sexual assault is funny, only the joke is.
If I follow your logic, jokes about accidents/dead people/jews/italians/black people,... etc shouldn't be allowed, because it would mean that people actually think that accidents are funny or that jews/italians/black people are stupid... ?
This is the point of a joke, it's to make fun of something (that sometimes isn't that funny). Positive people like jokes, negative people try to censor them
How about not threatening violence on someone who makes a shitty joke? God, you people are a bunch of rabid animals. No sense of self awareness at all. You people think it's perfectly fine to threaten to assault someone due to them making an off colour joke. How about if I hear someone make a racist joke? Should I threaten to assault them?
The first amendment allows you to legally say what you want. The first amendment does not, however, stop you from dealing with the social repercussions when you insult/offend someone. It's like, LEGALLY you're allowed to say the n word, but that's not going to stop your boss from firing you for being racist or from some black guy punching you in the face for saying that word. Catch my drift?
People are offended by anything now. I no longer care what people say (especially over the internet) anymore. I'm still gonna make rape jokes. If somebody comes at me with a dildo, I'll drop them.
Some states have stand your ground laws or castle doctrines that say just that. But that typically refers to an intruder or threat within your home or private property.
.
Also, freedom of speech is a right and people are always free to disagree with someone's opinion. Violent retaliation against someone whose words offend you, no matter how vulgar, is illegal. Threatening to sodomize someone whose words offend you doesn't prove a point, and in many places such a threat is in fact criminal behavior, which completely defeats the intended purpose. But the second part here is just my musings, the first part is the relevant reply!
next time i'll punch you in the mouth if you make a joke i don't like. The users on this site that support this post are a bunch of sensitive psychopaths.
No one in that situation is really in the right.
1. Rape jokes are not funny and shouldn't be said, especially if you are not 100000% sure the other person is okay with it.. It's a serious thing that screws up people's lifes, and it's a subject that shouldn't be made lighter by telling jokes about it
2. While yes the joke is bad, threatening to sexually assault someone is being a complete hypocrite by saying "Rape jokes aren't funny. And to make sure to get my point across, I'm going to sexually assault somebody to prove it". It's a dumb backwards thought pattern, and doesn't solve anything, just create more problems.
Rape jokes are never funny or harmless. They can trigger mental breakdowns and/or panic attacks. As far as this goes, threatening someone like that isn't okay either. However, I do think that the idea of asking someone if they'd like a dildo shoved up their ass without their consent is a good idea. Maybe don't carry one around and threaten people, but do ask them if they'd like it.
I feel like they were trying to make a point and went wrong way.
The correct way would be " it's not okay to tell racist jokes, therefore it isnt okay to be a racist " but they wanted to screw it up to get a dumb point across.
My advice to people who went through this kind of stuff: YOU ARE STRONG (I can't stress this enough). Armor yourself, but don't try to bury this memory, because it will resurface anyway, and many things will remind you of it. The truth is, you will NEVER avoid being reminded of it, even if some jokes get censored. Instead, accept it as a part of your past, even though an unpleasant one. Whining won't change the past, but you know what will help? Dealing with it.
My advice to you: don't use other people's experience as an excuse to spout your crap.
Actually I was sexually abused until I was 15 years old, thank you very fucking much. I'm not using anybody else's experience except my own, but nice try. You know what would actually help? People not making jokes about things this serious that actually do hurt. Congratulations that you're over it. Rape has fucking side effects that some people are still in the process of healing from and just because you can handle it better doesn't mean someone else isn't having a hard enough time managing it.
At least you know what it's like, but can your comrades say the same? For one person who went through this there's at least five others who just use it as an excuse for hate. And as I already said, there's a million factors that can and will remind you of what happened, and jokes are about one percent of it. Anything can be a "trigger". You can look down the street and get "triggered". You can look at a person with a specific hair colour and it will be a "trigger". By the way, you know what the strongest memory trigger is? Smell. You are much more likely to return to a bad memory by smelling cologne than hearing a joke. I don't see people banning colognes. This whole "campaign" about censoring jokes is thus useless, because speech is one of the last things that can trigger a bad memory.
The best thing you can do is to make peace with your past. Also, you can't just limit the right of free speech.
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/B1KpY5dCUAAsYsl.jpg
Yes, those are exactly the people I mean. Also the kind who use it as an excuse to bash someone, which is what I wrote in the previous comment. Funny how you conveniently ignored that part, and also the part where I name all the things that can cause a memory trigger, apart from jokes.
This is what really annoys me, you guys take one sentence and transform it into an argument or quote it or whatever while completely ignoring the actual message that was in the remaining 90% of the comment.
https://tealeavesdogears.wordpress.com/2013/12/22/why-stephen-frys-offensive-quote-is-total-bullshit/ ... most of what people say is context sensitive, just saying. .
And I must point out that, yet again, you showed your perfectly polished FS (or BS?) ability. You wait for a sentence or a word to appear in someone's comment so you can attack it with your full arsenal while ignoring the rest of the comment. This renders the whole conversation pointless as you can't focus on the message as a whole and just pick on tiny flaws that you can attack.
Besides, one of the most efficient ways to cope with a thing you have no means of changing is to laugh at it. Dwelling on the past and sulking helps no one. (This is my experience.)
It's funny how I'm the one who "bullies" people while you and the previous commenters would gladly limit the freedom of speech by banning rape jokes. As far as I'm concerned, I'm not limiting anyone. I'm just disproving efforts to limit other people. (This is my opinion.)
how dare you pseudolibertarian fruitcake try and limit me in taking offense in whatever I want to? You want free speech for Bill O'Reilly? Take Bill Maher.
There's nothing wrong with assuming what people's intentions are, either. It's also just elementary logic.
I'm not limited in any way by not acknowledging your special snowflake status, although I should've seen earlier that you didn't really assume the side of morgan and alxx. They at least fought for their opinion because of personal experience, whereas you just came in as the person who is baselessly offended by everything. Your calling me "limited" also holds no base, and is just as assumptious of you as guessing your intentions was of me. By those laws I could call you limited as well, but I'm not going to, lest you get offended again. Funny how the first ones to get offended are also the first ones to start spitting personal insults. How very eloquent and tactful of you, by the way.
.-.
Armageddon cant be here sooner !
Or wait, is it only funny as long as it doesn't happen to them?
If I follow your logic, jokes about accidents/dead people/jews/italians/black people,... etc shouldn't be allowed, because it would mean that people actually think that accidents are funny or that jews/italians/black people are stupid... ?
This is the point of a joke, it's to make fun of something (that sometimes isn't that funny). Positive people like jokes, negative people try to censor them
I could be wrong, though.
.
Also, freedom of speech is a right and people are always free to disagree with someone's opinion. Violent retaliation against someone whose words offend you, no matter how vulgar, is illegal. Threatening to sodomize someone whose words offend you doesn't prove a point, and in many places such a threat is in fact criminal behavior, which completely defeats the intended purpose. But the second part here is just my musings, the first part is the relevant reply!
1. Rape jokes are not funny and shouldn't be said, especially if you are not 100000% sure the other person is okay with it.. It's a serious thing that screws up people's lifes, and it's a subject that shouldn't be made lighter by telling jokes about it
2. While yes the joke is bad, threatening to sexually assault someone is being a complete hypocrite by saying "Rape jokes aren't funny. And to make sure to get my point across, I'm going to sexually assault somebody to prove it". It's a dumb backwards thought pattern, and doesn't solve anything, just create more problems.
The correct way would be " it's not okay to tell racist jokes, therefore it isnt okay to be a racist " but they wanted to screw it up to get a dumb point across.