And what exactly does it change? Does it make anything better? The progeny of slaves adress to the progeny of the slaveholders, what's wrong with that? Also the ones who shipped them to north america were white
Yes i know that they were white my ancestor owned 40 ships that all carried slaves i know. But it goes both ways. White people are judged because they are white too thats all this is saying.
You inherit the assets AND the debts. You cannot accept one and reject the other. Slaves created wealth and the slaveholders heirs still profit from that, same as they still profit from the social and political gaps from that time. This ain't over til there is a major acceptance of historic responsibilities. This "we haven't been born then" just doesn't cut it, nowhere, never.
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Texasranger: _what_ exactly goes both ways then?
Okay SO, all my ancestors are either recently immigrated ( last 100 years ) or Native American
So because I'm white I still have to " feel guilty over my ancestors crimes " when they weren't even my ancestors ?
And okay, you wanna talk about historic responsibilities ? Irish women were kidnapped by the Chinese for being witches then killed when it was revealed tey weren't.
There were Muslim pirates that killed millions of Europeans.
Everyone has been at war and killed everyone else at some time or another.
How fucking far back do you want to go? Should we trace things right back to Mesopotamia and force the descendants of Uruk to compensate for the primitive city-states they razed?
I won't accept responsibility for things I had no hand in. I never owned slaves, I owe black people nothing. I never stole land from Native Americans or forced them into residential schools, I owe them nothing. What ancestry I was born into has no bearing on my responsibilities. It's not "we haven't been born then", it's "We didn't fucking do it."
Grouping people racially like this is also collectivist, which is bullshit all on it's own.
Damn, its a rare day and stupid ass person when I agree with Garlog
But I do want funsubstanceuser to answer metalmans question
What exactly do you want besides " you should feel bad " and having people feel bad ? Do you just want some sick sense of superiority for things that isn't the responsibility of anyone alive ? Is there something you feel you should be compensated for despite not going through any of the hardships actual slaves go through ?
What do you want ?
I don't know what will happen if people start to acknowledge historic responsibility. Hardly anyone does. Most people are with garlog, they want daddys bank account after his death, but none of his obilgations. So this shit will probably go on forever.
Why would he give me his obligations? I get his stuff because that's stuff he wants to pass down to me, it's essentially the same as him giving me his stuff while he's alive, there's no catch. I didn't sign anything with his creditors, what right do they have to take my money?
Is this how it works in Germany? Are you actually forced to take on your parents' debt?
No, the house becomes a part of his estate when he dies, and creditors get the first crack at the estate. Obviously with the house as a part of the estate, the estate will have enough equity to pay that debt, so the house will be sold in order to do that, unless there's actually enough equity outside the house to do that and someone wants the house. When all proven debts are paid the rest of the estate is split either according to a will or as negotiated by next of kin.
That's all assuming he doesn't have mortgage insurance, which is silly not to have.
What the fuck is wrong with you ? You're acting as if all the Europeans came over and took all the Africans and everyone had bunches of slaves and shit was all terrible like that 24/7, but I do notice how you avoided the questions. What even is " historic responsibility ? " the fact that some ( very few ) white people owned slaved and so all white people need to act as if they committed some horrible crime ?
No one is waiting for their parents to die just to take their money, most parents don't have a lot of money they're going to leave to their children and have regular houses. How many people do you think are actually rich from slavery ?
And no, you don't have to pay anything if your parents die. Like Garlog said you didn't sign anything with the companies. Unless companies have claims to any of their stuff, you don't have to give them anything because it wasn't your debt but it was your parents stuff that they get to choose what happens to it
So Garlog, your answer to my question is "no", like I guessed.
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"How many people do you think are actually rich from slavery ?" - Oh, you know, just a few people. Mainly its central europe and north america. Most of what those muslims made with their slavery biz went to europe as well btw. And too bad they didn't have a mortgage insurance. I mean, too bad for them slaves and their progeny.
It's clear to see that your, although already non-existent, argument is already deteriorating. If you choose to wallow in the past and want to feel sorry for yourself then go ahead. You also never answered my question.
Answer is "How the fuck would I know?" My ancestors and me profited from that shit, like you and yours probably did. All we could really do is be open to our past and ask the ones who had the damage and listen to them to find out, what we can do. Least we could do would be to accept the truth. Too bad this will never happen, cause most of us will never honour our ancestors mortgages. As I said, this will probably go on for many more generations to come. I'm not wallowing in the past, you're ignoring it.
The point is I don't inherit my parents debts. That's not a thing, and there's no reason for it to be a thing.
"Least we could do would be to accept the truth."
What truth are we not accepting? We're not denying what happened in the past. No one's ignoring the past.
This is getting ridiculous, you know perfectly well what I mean and you have even basically agreed to it. As a german, if I want to relate myself to brilliant germans like Goethe, Beethoven, Nietzsche, Schopenhauer, Einstein, Tucholsky, to name but a few, I cannot deny that very same relation to Hitler, Honnecker and Dieter Bohlen. The same way I am proud, we europeans have come to the age of enlightment in the 17th to 19th century, I am ashamed our past and present wealth arose from slavery and colonialism. You apparently don't, so we have very different ethics. I'm not going to discuss that with you any longer, its just a waste of time.
If you feel that you owe people something, go ahead and do what you feel should be done
But I, and quite a lot of others, feel that since we did nothing we shouldn't have to make up for it, so don't get butthurt and pissy when we tell you we don't feel the same way about it
The way you're going about this is like your mother punishing you for what your great grandfather did when he was 10. There's no reason for that to happen.
"This is getting ridiculous, you know perfectly well what I mean and you have even basically agreed to it."
You literally said "You inherit the assets AND the debts", and I showed how I don't inherent the debt. What the fuck are you talking about?
"I am ashamed our past and present wealth arose from slavery and colonialism."
It's fine to be ashamed of your nation's history, but that doesn't indenture it's people into compensating for it. Groups of people are not responsible for things, individuals are.
If everyone was held accountable for the actions of our relatives and ancestors we'd all hang. What happened happened we can't change it all we can do is learn from it thats why they call it the past.
Slavery in Africa was more like being a indebtured servant. There were rules in how slaves were treated and what not. It wasn't the same as the way slaves inn America were treated.
Being a black person myself I know that people randomly bringing up slavery can be annoying at times. But I think that many black people know this fact. It is taught in the schools it's not some hidden fact. Though, when I hear some black people referring to whites bringing them here, it is often a response to the feeling of not being wanted. But the most complaining that I ever hear is 90% on the way slaves were treated once they reached the Americas. Downvote me if you want FS, but I dont think this fact takes away from any of the harshness of the whole situation. But Seriously I hate these kind of discussions because none of us living today had anything to do with what happened then.
If they don't see it they don't think it exists
Kind of like how child brides are a HUGE issue but no one is doing as much about it because they don't see any
It is true that other blacks kidnapped and sold them in Africa, but without the demand of Europeans and Americans, it wouldn't have happened nearly as much. It still would have, yes, but not to the same, terrible extent.
I dont knowwhypeopleonly care about blacks beenig slaves I mean in otherpartswhites were slaves. So who remembers that hmmm, also in america som blacks had black slaves (and I say "blacks" because if you were dark skined you were considered black no mater if you were a different rase*)
Coming from a country where a lot of the slaves were from, both parties were to blame. The white brought shiny worthless trinkets to bribe the natives. A lot of people were sold off for things like mirrors and combs, but also for guns and stuff. The whites really played on their ignorance, and then treated their slaves abominably. I blame the blacks for being stupid, and callous and greedy enough to trade human life for material things. The kind of slavery going on today is also similar; people are still taking advantage of disadvantaged folks.
Isn't it because in America they choose to view and treat slaves as less than human just because of their skin color and in Africa they were more of indentured servants? America took slavery to a level that Africa didn't
Two main differences: 1) the value accumulated by slavery in the us and european colonies is very high compared to other forms of slavery. Ironic side fact: the value accumulated by "non-white" slavery went to europe latest in the 18/19th centuries, but thats another unpopular story. 2) Slavery in ancient greece and rome, in africa and also in arabia was a based on politics, power distribution, and history. Especially in africa practically everyone could be a slave under certain circumstances, deriving from very old practices, without the ideas of the age of enlightment. Nobody then and there had an idea of the equality of all men. Slavery in europe and america (incl. middle and south america) was a matter of the god given superiority of white men. Tough shit for un-whites, even long after white people more or less agreed on the equality of men.
Seems tumblr is a symbol for all thats wrong and icky for some. Fun fact: that says a LOT more about those folks than about tumblr. Welcome to the 21st century, don't let it scare you so much.
No lie no doubt, anerica fucked up with slsvery hard core. As for slaves in africa that stayed in africa? Super chill, hardly any murders and such and minor restrictions and laws, but america? "SLAVE WALKIN WIDOUD HHISS OWNER KILL EM" Americunts should stop curving that shit.
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· 8 years ago
wut? I have no idea if I agree with you or not because I have no clue what you said. Have you ever tried proper grammar, spell check and reviewing what you wrote?
The sins of the father are not the sins of the son.
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Texasranger: _what_ exactly goes both ways then?
So because I'm white I still have to " feel guilty over my ancestors crimes " when they weren't even my ancestors ?
And okay, you wanna talk about historic responsibilities ? Irish women were kidnapped by the Chinese for being witches then killed when it was revealed tey weren't.
There were Muslim pirates that killed millions of Europeans.
Everyone has been at war and killed everyone else at some time or another.
I won't accept responsibility for things I had no hand in. I never owned slaves, I owe black people nothing. I never stole land from Native Americans or forced them into residential schools, I owe them nothing. What ancestry I was born into has no bearing on my responsibilities. It's not "we haven't been born then", it's "We didn't fucking do it."
Grouping people racially like this is also collectivist, which is bullshit all on it's own.
But I do want funsubstanceuser to answer metalmans question
What exactly do you want besides " you should feel bad " and having people feel bad ? Do you just want some sick sense of superiority for things that isn't the responsibility of anyone alive ? Is there something you feel you should be compensated for despite not going through any of the hardships actual slaves go through ?
What do you want ?
Is this how it works in Germany? Are you actually forced to take on your parents' debt?
That's all assuming he doesn't have mortgage insurance, which is silly not to have.
No one is waiting for their parents to die just to take their money, most parents don't have a lot of money they're going to leave to their children and have regular houses. How many people do you think are actually rich from slavery ?
And no, you don't have to pay anything if your parents die. Like Garlog said you didn't sign anything with the companies. Unless companies have claims to any of their stuff, you don't have to give them anything because it wasn't your debt but it was your parents stuff that they get to choose what happens to it
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"How many people do you think are actually rich from slavery ?" - Oh, you know, just a few people. Mainly its central europe and north america. Most of what those muslims made with their slavery biz went to europe as well btw. And too bad they didn't have a mortgage insurance. I mean, too bad for them slaves and their progeny.
"Least we could do would be to accept the truth."
What truth are we not accepting? We're not denying what happened in the past. No one's ignoring the past.
But I, and quite a lot of others, feel that since we did nothing we shouldn't have to make up for it, so don't get butthurt and pissy when we tell you we don't feel the same way about it
You literally said "You inherit the assets AND the debts", and I showed how I don't inherent the debt. What the fuck are you talking about?
"I am ashamed our past and present wealth arose from slavery and colonialism."
It's fine to be ashamed of your nation's history, but that doesn't indenture it's people into compensating for it. Groups of people are not responsible for things, individuals are.
Kind of like how child brides are a HUGE issue but no one is doing as much about it because they don't see any
(I'm failing history and every other class)