Roses are red, sugar is sweet

It's not natural to be vegan. While it may be true that we eat too much meat, completely eliminating meat is more unnatural than eating it. The only reason you can have your "natural" diet is because of science and agriculture.

I am not vegan. I support people who are, but I won't condone them stopping others from having meat.

Vegans aren't vegetarian, vegetarians don't eat meat, Vegans don't eat anything that comes from any animal ever. Vegetarians will use a substitute for eggs in example a cake but still milk, vegans believe it's wrong to drink milk because "milking a cow hurts it" but in actual fact not milking a cow is very painful for the cow.

Yeah, I know that. I don't know why I kept using meat, sorry haha
They just need to know that it's more painful for the cow to NOT be milked.

Well they don't wear leather or use anything with leather either. They don't use anything from any animal ever

I know that.

Whispers* do they swallow tho
I'm sorry I ruin the seriousness of this conversation

yes we should. if someone is against killing animals and eat their corpses, thats okay. as a kid i didnt eat meat and i'm fine. just because most of the people think that eat meat is a 100% must-have this must not be enforced. free will = let the kid decide. i did decide as a kid for myself and I'm alive and writing with you without health problems. why i didn't die? hm? yeah. there is no such thing like "if you don't eat meat you gonna die" - if this would be like this, i would be dead. but i'm alive. so what? if a kid is against eat corpses of dead animals who got murdered just because this, you shouldn't force them to eat it. it's horrible to do such a thing. please think about was meat really is. if soneone don't want to eat this, thats okay.

If I need to worry about the ingredients and hope that my child isn't allergic to any of them, then there's a problem.

the government should really add a rule who says "if you want to eat meat, get a animal and kill it. make your own meat." - this would open the eyes of most people and they would stop to say such bullshit like "force kids to eat dead bodys of animals even if they don't want to"

Do you know why we kill things? Eat them? Use them? Idolize them as the beautiful resource they are? Because we are the apex predator. And what do predators do? They control the population of their prey. We won't extinct them, but we sure will use them.
You're not stopping anyone with that law. Even if the kid dislikes meat, they can stop eating that when they reach puberty. Before that, too bad bucko.

we don't "control".. we terminate creatures + places and do what we want. we kill more creatures than we need! look at how much animals need to die, and their meat get thrown away because we humans don't like to eat more and put it in the trash because of this. it would be another thing if we would just kill such amount that we can eat & need.. but that's not the fact. we even f*cking shred baby birds in a blender because guys want their chicken mc nuggets.. is this respectfull use of ressources? NO. we do what we want and don't care about other creatures on the planet. we destroy their lifeplaces where they live, kill them, and harm them in lots of other ways. do you really think this is okay? kill and harm creatures just that some strangers can have there chicken mcnuggets or other stuff? really? do you know how much creatures are getting killed and humans don't even know about it just because no one give's a f*ck? we are not a predator - the human race is a assh*le.

and if now a kid think about "hm, i don't like that creatures get harmed because this meat on my table. i don't want that animals get killed for me.".. if a kid really think about this & DON'T want to eat meat.. they should'tn be forced to do. it's horrible to force someone to do something they don't want.. it's a dickmove to say "if you reach puberty you can decide for yourself, but before..i don't allow you to do this" - why the fuck not? a kid have a consciousness and can think for him self. it's not like they want to jump down a cliff or someting. he just don't want to eat dead corpses. what's wrong about this? really. you can get proteins from other ressources too.. not just meat.

if strangers see dogs in a car they gonna destroy the windows..but if someone kill hundreds of animals with a blender no one cares.. what a weird world.

"we are not a predator - the human race is an asshole"
Then how did we survive this long? By just eating plants? Why do our digestive systems allow the consumption of meat? Might as well as put it good use.
And why the fuck do you keep calling them corpses? Corpses are entire bodies, or at least large parts of them. It's more like product of a slaughter.
"if strangers see dogs in a car they gonna destroy the window"
THEY ARE DOMESTIC ANIMALS WHO ARE RECREATIONAL AND FOR HUNTING. THEY ARE A LAST, VERY LAST RESORT TO EAT.
"we even fucking shred baby birds to make chicken mc nuggets" Well, to each there own. Personally, those nuggets taste like the inevitable release of death, and their parfaits are much better(I know we're supposed to be arguing, but DAMN THE PARFAITS ARE GOOD).
"you can get proteins from other resources too"
From what? Sugary protein supplements? Fruits that have some but a very miniscule amount, requiring you to eat ten thousand of them just get enough protein

to get half of what a well-made(not well-done) steak can give me?
"Why the fuck not a kid [can] have a consciousness and can think for himself"
Most meats are reliable, based on where they're from(what farm, not country of origin), what type of meat, etc. Kids need a little bit of it early on, and then when they learn what happens to make it, they don't need to eat meat if they don't want to. But what I don't want is what you're doing: being an intolerant person. Who crapped in your cornflakes and made you want to hate every person who dares to eat meat?

"Who crapped in your cornflakes and made you want to hate every person who dares to eat meat? " i don't want to hate every person who eat meat. but i hate the fact that some peoples want to FORCE other peoples to do stuff they don't want. if a human beeing decide for himself "i don't want to eat meat because thats cruel".. then i think that he should be allowed to do this. if a human don't want to help / support the murder of other creatures, we should not force them to do it. and if some guys now gonna want to force others to do this, i have a right to flame about this - sorry but i don't like when one person want to force another person to do stuff they don't want. thats just cruel. if you want to eat meat - fine. do it. but don't force others to do it.

So I should never let my kid eat meat, even when it can provide vital nutrients, until him/her decide to eat meat?

if your kid know's where meat come from, and don't like the fact that meat comes from murdering innocent animals.. and don't want to eat meat.. then yes, you should let him NOT EAT it. it's his decision.. not your's. it's his body and Ethical understanding.. he have to make his own decision. if you force him to do it if he don't like.. you are a bad person in my understanding.

But what if he's younger and doesn't know?
Should I show my child the horrors or a slaughterhouse?
Possibly traumatizing him?

what is "younger" in your understanding? i argue from the thought of a kid who is like 6-10 years old and older. and no, you should'nt show him the slaughterhouse - everyone would get a trauma from this kind of horror that goes on there.. i bet if you would be forced to go in there and see how meat is made.. you would maybe stop to eat meat. there are even reports that the whole numbing process sometimes not even work right.. so the animals get killed with pain and suffer.. no one wants to see this.. or do you? i don't.
p.s: think about the fact that humans can think for themself.. animals use instincts. if a predator kills a other animal to eat, thats not the same as if a human kill a animal. a human have a ethical understanding of what he is doing.. a predator not.

Younger is under 12 in my example.
I bet if I went into a slaughterhouse, I wouldn't stop eating meat, just learn more about it.
and I do think about the fact that humans can think about themselves. If a human kills an animal for the thrill of it, that's where I have beef. You're supposed to use what you kill, which is why trophy killing should be illegal, unless you are donating the meat to family who needs it.

if humans would just kill to survive (and just as much they need), i would say "it is okay to kill a animal". just like some indigenous people do it. but we have technologies to don't need to kill animals like we do it at the moment. the whole "meat production" is weird as hell. we don't respect the nature anymore.. most of us just want "MEAT.. MEAT... MEAT!!!".. no one seems to really care much about how much we harm creatures with this behaviour. most creatures on this planet not even exist anymore because of our actions on this planet. and it gets every day worse. and if now kids decide "hey, what the humans do is bad. we shouldn't do this" and don't want to eat meat because of this.. i think we shouldn't force them to eat meat - don't you think that too? we can't get a bether world for our kids if we do the same over and over again..we NEED change imho.

so why not start there?

What about those who actually wanted meat and out of this whole process?
I understand that animals have been hunted to extinction, but that was before animal hunting laws limiting killings.
And what technologies do we have that can replace pure, well-cooked meat?
I see where you're coming from when you say we don't respect nature, but let me raise you this: wildlife reserves dedicated only for certain species to survive that are endangered. Not to mention we actually pulled a species out of endangerment: pandas! and no sane person would eat panda meat!
I feel like you're being a bit..off. I can't see your light at the end of the road.
I understand you feel like we should do a little to help slow down the meat production industry, but I feel like you want to persuade meat eaters to stop eating meat altogether.
I'm fine with a few people being vegan, but honestly, it's not natural. Tofu isn't naturally made, but neither is half the meat products made in fast food restaurants.

"but I feel like you want to persuade meat eaters to stop eating meat altogether. " as i said, if someone want to eat meat.. i don't have anything against this. but.. do you think, we should force all humans to eat meat? just because "meat have protein"? i mean.. come on. if we do this, they never will be a change in this world. i don't want to force persons to stop eating meat..but then i want too that persons don't force others to eat meat. everyone should decide by him self what he think is ethically und what not. if kids think it's bad to kill animals and don't want to eat meat because this.. why we should force them? p.s: we have not the technology to get meat (not yet)..but to replace meat.

Some people are still going to eat meat, like me. I'm not gonna force everyone to eat meat, some people may not like it. and why are you making this thing a whole ethnics thing? Your heart should be placed how it's produced, not if people eat it.
p.s. using tech to replace meat isn't going to make such things okay. People would still want to eat natural meat.

They do they give their kids meat and milk and normal food so no problem there, kid decides one day they want to be vegetarian or vegan sure go for it but don't deprive them of the nutrients they need to grow humans are omnivores and require a lot of nutrients from plants and animal meat to grow healthy and normally. We have the power to choose what we eat but it's not fair to take dietary options away from children who need more of everything to grow and develop. Why do you think kids eat so much? Their body is building mass and needs to consume a lot to do this.why do you think kids like candy so much? Because the sugar provides energy that they burn through by playing outside and running around the whole time so their bodies constantly look for more energy to burn and they always look for something sugary or sweet to give them that energy.

None of that suggests normal people shouldn't have to follow that law.

"Normal people" already do, if you consider vegans abnormal. What they are saying is vegan people will not feed their child what they would get in a regular environment, a well balanced meal with protein, veggies and grains.

I'm sure there are are normal people who malnourish their children.

Sure, normal every day people who just want to kill their child, real "normal"

Normal as in non-vegan, obviously.

Ok, by that reasoning, they eat meat, so they will obviously feed their children meat. So what are you not understanding about that.

Are you suggesting that absolutely no non-vegan people have ever malnourished their children?

No "normal people" as you say malnourish their kids. People who do that aren't normal and there is something wrong with their brain.

Malnourishing your children makes you vegan?

Are you retarded?

We're using "normal" to mean "non-vegan" in this context, so you said:
"No non-vegans malnourish their kids. People who do that aren't non-vegans and there is something wrong with their brain."

Ok then, what I am saying is people who malnourish their kids and aren't vegans are also not normal.

Sure, I never said otherwise.
So you agree that there are some non-vegans who malnourish their kids. Should they have to follow this law?

Yeah, they most likely are the kind to not follow laws, but yes I never said NO non-vegans should follow this law.

You said ""Normal people" already do", which seemed to imply that the law doesn't need to apply to non-vegans.

I meant they already follow it without it having to be a law.

Most do, but we've already established that some don't.