When you only read the first fifth of the Kuran

@ogchucknorris "Extreme ideas" so, like, how people love attacking others for stuff they do themselves? Yeah, I'm a real isis terrorist. @carne_asada, despite what you may have been led to believe, you not liking me doesn't mean I should be banned. You might want to be careful, I know you're not, but that makes you sound like a spoiled brat.

@third I don't want to get involved with you because you are starting shit everywhere. The thing was a joke, which wouldnt offend anyone, Muslim, Christian, Liberal, etc. and you have to go try and start shit

Yet when I say something, now it's offensive? Sounds like a bit of a double standard.

I think you two need to calm down a bit.

no what you mistake is judging a whole religion. That is a very bigoted statement seeing Christianity has many branches and to label them as the same bigoted group of people is pure ignorance. I am Mormon tell me in what way have we attacked people? Now If you think Christianity is so bad what about every other group each of which has equally bad people. You have Muslims killing people in droves you have atheist attacking people just because they believe in any type of religion and you have all types of religious people or non committing atrocities the key is not to blame the religion but look at it as an individuals interpretation. My problem is that people of a Muslim belief have a lot larger tendency to be violent and extreme so it is hard but in cases of Christianity it is almost rare for multiple cases to occur of Christians committing violent acts.

Did you seriously just lump atheists attacking beliefs and religion justified mass murder together?

Also, that's just one similarity. These are also people from third world countries with bad education, etc... if it was the religion that made it true there'd be a hell of a lot more Muslim terror attacks in countries like the US.

No. It is an extreme sect of Islam, yes, and most Muslims are not like that. Even in the Middle East. Your arguments would be true if all Muslims were terrorists in the Middle East but they arent. Those Muslims take everything in the Quarran literally, espexcially the 109+ verses that condone mass killings.

"If all MUSLIMS?" I think you mean all people. And yes it is an extreme sect, which I attribute to the nature of their upbringing. I do not believe that they do that because of their religion, they just use it as an excuse. The religion has almost nothing to do with it.

Um no. Where is your proof? They are simply following the rules in their religion, aka Go kill the infidels.

no im saying that all there is bad people in all groups who commit crimes and who do bad things and to simply judge an entire belief system that belongs to millions of people is ignorant and foolish. I brought up the fact that atheist attack people or religion and constantly attempt to shame and persecute them. Not putting one over the other im simply bringing up examples for each group. Also it is a small group that commits them but a large portion of islam condones things such as honor killings and cases which have lead to the deaths of people who do not follow their religious text to a t. So no it is not a small sect that is this peaceful loving group.

^^this

For the record, the San Bernardino shooters were American citizens. One was a Psychologist. The Orlando shooter was born and raised in America. They aren't just a bunch of country bumpkins coming outta buttfuck nowhere. Most of these terrorists are educated. And if a secular education isn't enough to prevent this kind of radicalisation, what can be done?

We dont know that is the problem with terroism especially on a scale this large it is hard pretty much impossible to control but to deny that this is not a problem is pure ignorance.

The problem is that the terrorists don't regard their victims as people deserving of mercy. If they did, they wouldn't kill.

Yeah. But compare the numbers of domestic terrorists to the ones that come from those countries. And remember the media's bias. Also what the religion says doesn't mean jack shit. Ive never read the Koran, but I'm kind of skeptical it really condones mass killing, it's actually quite a peaceful religion. Besides, no one really follows the religion to the letter. Not even the terrorists, even if it really does condone mass killings.

I'm equally as sick and tired of hearing "xxx is a peaceful religion" as of hearing "The qur'an tells muslims to kill infidels". All religious scriptures are mostly just delusional nonsense with about the wisdom you'd find in any given book by Dr. Seuss. There are, have been and will be homicides carried out by muslims, christians, hindus, even buddhists (Myanmar). Any terrorist acting according to "his" religion is in extreme opposition of the absolute majority of the other believers and 99% of the scriptures. People only love to label terrorism to a certain religion so they can tell themselves, it's not irrational racism but a well informed rational opinion. Most of those warning us about muslim terror and how the qur'an teaches violence really just mean "fnck those towelheads" and actually don't give a sh#t whether they abuse a Sikh or a Muslim. Which is ironically just the amount of information they have on what they're talking about.

Third, you are skeptical it condones violence? Then here you go. Evidence.
http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/pages/quran/violence.aspx

Dude, you can do the exact same with the bible. here, some "evidence": http://www.skepticsannotatedbible.com/cruelty/long.html Or how about you run a little quiz: http://www.alternet.org/30-most-violent-exhortations-bible-torah-and-quran Obviously at the moment Team Islam appears to be a little bit ahead when it comes to body count, but the real reason behind this is NOT the nonsense some prophet said many centuries ago. It's been caused by (our) politics of the last few decades. You either understand this or you're a victim. Easy choice, innit?

@carne_asada seriously? That is clearly an anti-Islamic site. Have a look at this https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quran_and_violence
@halfdeadhammerhead thank you, it's nice to see another person who actually cares about getting things right.

Just why oh why would you use that dastardly anti-Islamic site as evidence? You need to do your research and know that the site creators purposely spread libel to turn people against Muslims?

@cynicc @third
It's a biased site, but it uses verses straight from the Quarran.

uhh no actually islam has been very violent from the start. Do you wanna go to when they exploded and took all the middle east and most of northern africa by force? Or how about the fact that they attacked and destroyed the byzantine empire. I was unaware our media was around to corrupt it back then.

halfdead you can say what you want about religion i still follow it because it is the only hope and reason i stick around. If there was no religion no god i would have shot myself 2 years ago when i had to go beat my sister up to protect my mom when she was coming down from drugs. life is not worth living when you know everything that you do that your kids do that your kids kids do is for nothing but ash. All the horrors and all the terrible things would not make 5 minutes of this life worth it. I have had my experiences and i know what I know and you can choose to believe what you want to believe but at least have the decency to not stand there and blast your own beliefs as if they are facts that are proven to everyone else.

Third you are right a lot of OUR terroist attacks are domestic not so much in europe but here you are right. But you will also find that a lot of them had isis connections. For example the orlando shooter pledged himself to isis before hand and dedicated it to them.

now hammer as for your amazingly "unbiased" sources I would like to say a lot of them are taken out of context and some of them are saying you shall be damned if you reject god and jesus which in my religion is a very long process which most would not do I will not say it because it is not as bad. But if you are correct why are Christians not rebelling against governments beheading people blowing themselves up ect in the same numbers as Muslims which btw are not as small as you like to downplay. Why is it that christians seem more peacful than the religion of peace you speak of when the text is so bad.

My sources tell me y'all should stahp

stop following then

"Why is it that christians seem more peacful than the religion of peace you speak of when the text is so bad." - because right now most christians live in relatively stable countries. Also christianity has always been the religion most supportive of the state it's thriving in.
You probably didn't read my text above where I clearly stated I hate this hollow phrase of _any_ religion being called "the religion of peace". Or maybe you ignored it.

Uh no. It's because Christianity went through what we call "reform" in the 1600s. That basically ended most forms of christian terrorism. Also, please explain how the Middle East is not supportive of Islam??

my bad i missed the line now your excuse is that Christianity lives in relatively stable countries correct? What about the Christians that live in the middle east or in south and central america? those dont seem very stable i do not hear on the news any factions of Christians defending themselves by beheading and murdering Muslims? It appears you have not researched this topic and you just assume that the religion is that way because of the stability of the country when a relatively short search can easily debunk this. It seems you really just hate religion in general despite what every one teaches or preaches. You simply lump them together in order for you to easily place judgment on them because of a bad experience you have probably had. I can say the same with atheist and agnostics but i do not judge them all because i know that it is probably only a few personal perspectives i have dealt with. Now push you ignorance aside and give me something that makes more sense by doing some

research

As a matter of fact in the beginning, it was Islam who tried to convert their subjects, but left them alone if they didn't, and Christianity who went around burning people at the stake for failing to absolutely adhere to the religion.

Then they decided to ditch their tactics leading to the deaths of millions and the continued influence of islam on these countries now. You are correct Christians started humble being murdered and pushed down by Romans than became dominant and did burn people and kill them. Then there was a reformation as carne asada had said before. Now you can see no more violent crimes by Christians but since there has not been a Muslim reformation we can see the same behavior and an extremely higher chance of committing a violent crimes

The reformation had little to do with cristianity.

and what did? were you going to lead to something to disprove it further or do you just assume your word is that important?

And what the hell do you think you're doing?

@ogchucknorris - you don't even know jingles about the history of the very religion you seem to be so super proud of, not to mention the one you're "criticising". That's really bullsh#t. You want to hate "foreigners" and need to rationalise that, so just go ahead. It takes a lot of people to make a world. But I won't valorise that by entangling myself into a debate on peer level with you.

@third
"I will cast terror into the hearts of those who disbelieve. Therefore strike off their heads and strike off every fingertip of them"
Please tell me how this does not condone violence

Please cite this as coming from a reliable source.

Ok
It's from the Quarran
Your move

Also
Quran 8:15 – “O ye who believe! When ye meet those who disbelieve in battle, turn not your backs to them. (16)Whoso on that day turneth his back to them, unless maneuvering for battle or intent to join a company, he truly hath incurred wrath from Allah, and his habitation will be hell, a hapless journey’s end.”

half dead if you are gonna say you dont know anything disprove what I said because the fact you literally say everything i said was wrong and saying you shouldn't have to debate it shows me you have nothing left to say but you are to proud to admit it. Now third i have brought up historical events all of which happened you litterally said I was wrong and you left it at that. There is a vast difference. Now please answer the question unless you cant that is.

"It's from the Quran" yeah, that's real beliveible. Cite its location please. The other verse says when you meet in battle, not to declare war. It also says they'll go to hell, like every other religion, however nothing in says that you should be the one to send them there.

Quran 8:12
Or you could just be a decent human being for once and google it yourself

Like the others, this lies within the context of battle. I would also suggest you look up 2:256. Like every other religion it has contradictions, particularly about killing, but unless you're prepared to go after every religion in the same way, shut the hell up.

Uh, no actually it is not in the context of war. I suggest you go get educated. And yes, I am prepared to defend Christianity, Hinduism, Buddhism, Janism, Judaism, which all DO NOT condone mass killing.

Im prepared to prepare my book of Mormon and day of the week fam and you just ignored me again Do you agree or are you not have anything to say?

@carne_asada Neither does the Koran. You only see what you want, and I would suggest further educating yourself, at least by reading around these verses or continue to demonstrate that you are not interested in rational discussion and just want to spread/vent hate.
@ogchucknorris Book of Mormon? I'll look into it tomorrow.

Trust me, that will be the most bizarre, delusional and involuntarily funny fiction you've aver read. Compared to that the qur'an, the bible and the tora make complete sense. Only Dianetics are in that league of crazy.

@third did you even READ the verses I have put up? I literally just posted Allah's calling to kill all of the infidels, which is NOT in the context of war.
Anyways, even it it were, we are basically at war with ISIS, so... yeah.
And yes, I have read around those verses. Can tou honestly tell me you have too?

You know that by far the most victims of ISIS are muslims, right? ISIS is mainly in war with other muslims. And have you ever researched their history? It's basically been founded by Saddam Husseins old minions. They are mainly trying to provoke dissension between muslims and other religions. People like you are super helpful to them, so they're probably including you in their prayers.

@carne_asada http://www.aboutjihad.com/terrorism/quran_misquote_part_4.php enjoy.

@carna_asada dont talk shit before you start with your shit do research ive studied the quran by heart and whatever you just said about killing is so ignorant america really indoctrinated yall stupid people

Quite so, but she's Belgian

@third
And ISIS is basically at war with the United States. And France. I was actually there during the Paris bombings by ISIS.
So if they are at war with us... and they swear to kill the nonbeleievers in war...
I'll let you figure out the rest.

Isis is not muslim people war in my religion dont work like that the jihad muslim do in todays time is that they just leave their families for a short amount of time and invite muslim people to come to their gatherings

So Islamic terrorism doesnt exist?
Is that what you are saying?

Yes of course if muslims kill they'll go to hell no matter the reason they only allowed to do that in war and dont tell me this is war because it aint

No. No. it is war. ISIS bombed Paris, and my grandfather died. Don't fucking tell me this isn't war.
ISIS. Bombed. Paris.

ISIS isnt fucking muslim my fucking grandparents died too and I dont give a fuck how they died do you I blame god for that, death comes to everyone and no matter what if god said your grandfather has to die there that will happen nothing could've saved him

Are you serious? You think "God" meant for ISIS to kill those people? That's messed up by anyone's standards.
You don't gaf how your grandparents died? Are you mental?
YES ISIS IS MUSLIM. FOR THE MOST PART ISLAM IS PEACEFUL, BUT ISIS IS STILL A RADICAL ISLAM GROUP NO MATTER WHAT YOU SAY

Im fucking sane as can be I dont let death give me a wrong idea about world and yes god is the reason everything in this happens whether it be people dying and shit everything happens because of god and this shit world is just a test

Let's just ignore the fact that God probably isn't real and focus on how fucked up your world view is.
We shouldn't fight ISIS because ISIS is just a test sent by God? Are you a Jehovah's Witness or something?

If it comes to that I'll fight my so called muslim brothers and I wont ignore the fact that god isn't real

So you DO support fighting ISIS?

Im just going to forget this ever happened im truly sorry that I came at you like that it was really stupid of best of luck to you

What the fuck just happened

Me Not thinking before I speak and me apologising for being stupid

I'm sure everyone in this chain agrees that isis should be dealt with, but people are getting upset because everyone puts everyone else at the extreme end of the spectrum. You say not all muslims want to murder everybody? YOU WANT ISIS TO WIN OR SOMETHING? You say isis should be dealt with? WHAT ARE YOU SOME KIND OF RACIST?

Blast all you want at me but I won't give you the pleasure by fighting back

Yimmye I never said that. He just said that ISIS was justified because it was Gods plan

Thank you for your ingenious critiquing of my religion halfdead ill be sure to take your amazing points into consideration. I am also just gonna say while you are right that a lot of Muslims die from isis I agree but what I will say is why is it that we are seeing large portions of muslims killing on behalf of their religion and not christians. If you are correct in saying both religions have text that are endorsing it why are they not doing it in the same statistics. In fact there is no group that is killing people in huge droves except muslims. You do not see jews doing it christians sure arent doing it and I can already tell you there is no band of atheist doing it. So why is this happening and do not pull of some dumb answer like it is the economic stability of the area because we already know that it is probably just as unstable in south america which is heavily christian. The only answer is that the muslim faith is breeding some sort of extremism in people.

Thank you. Also to third's point that all the quotes are "in the context of war," I just want to say that this only proves that the Quran is a book about war, violence, and waging war against the nonbelievers

And the Bible basically treats women as property and says that a kind and merciful God once turned someone into a pillar of salt because they tripped and dropped something important. They're all fucked up, just in different ways, stop acting all high and mighty.

Have you read the new testament? It kinda erases everything in the old testament. It offers an easy path to heaven by praying and more forgiveness by God. Also, if they are all fucked up, why aren't there any Christian/Jewish terrorists?

Ever heard of the Lord's Resistance Army? They're like the ISIS of Uganda, only christian

"why aren't there any Christian/Jewish terrorists?" - The largest single terrorist attack in europe was carried out by a self-declared christian and was meant to defend europes christian heritage from muslims and social democrats. Anders Breivik refers to christianity like Isis refers to islam. KKK? The irish civil war? The "Army of God" attacking abortion clinics? Maronite christian militias in Lebanon? One minute research would have shown you, and there's soo much more. And mind me, I'm NOT saying "christians are terrorists" or "christianity makes people become terrorists". And jewish terrorists? What about the attack on the Gay Pride in Jerusalem? What about radicalized jewish "settlers" throwing molotov cocktails on peaceful palestine farmers? Jakob Teitel and especially the movement supporting him? This is totally delusional bullsh#t

The media doesn't like to talk about them so nobody hears about them. The only one I've even heard mentioned was the planned parenthood shooter, and barely even him.

Also, I challenge you to read 5 verses of the Quran and tell me honestly it's not about war with infidels and killing.
Now, read verses from the new testament, and it's all about loving and caring (with the exception of Jesus going apeshit in the temple)
Also, there are Christian terrorists, but they are barely relevant compared to ISIS. Also, any issue in Israel has nothing to do with religion and everything to do with power.

You could say the same about ISIL

But...
They have everything to do with relgion. Their reliion says they have to take over that reigon and kill the nonbelievers

Yall gotta know that there is a difference between arabs and muslim not all arabs are muslim the same with white people not all white people are Christian and stop saying that the quran invokes violence because thats just wrong in so many ways and let me just tell you something in the quran its says that god brought all the books before his main book (quran) he talks about the bible the zaboor the taurah etc. And its states that the people that believed in that books back then will surely go to heaven but after the main book was revealed god forbids us to read that books im just saying don't blame all muslims for the crimes and shit of one arab group the same like I don't look down on all the white people because the acts of the kkk and back then when they caused the slavery and the reason apartheid was there

I... I literally said that most Muslims are peaceful, and that ISIS is an extreme group

No you didn't.

You said Islam condones mass killings and that other religions do not

@carna_asada If I could I would really want to talk to you in private and tell you what it is to be muslim and how we were not brought up to invoke violence

@ikwydlw
Yeah. It condones mass killings, but many Muslims choose to ignore this and lives peacefully
@darth29 I'd love to hear it.

you misread what i wrote i said the same statistics most of these are past incidents the kkk has not commited a real act of terroism in forever and accepts not Christians in some sects of it. the army of god has not done anything since 1997 which was a nail bombing You have the lords resistance army is a resistance army against the current government in africa. Not much of a terroist organization whereas isis just wants to kill anyone who is not a Muslim of the same beliefs as them. But for some reason today we see Muslims blowing themselves up shooting non Muslims Isis is actively killing people today and even when most of these groups were active the number of incidents and people doing it were not anywhere in the same league.

. Qur’an 2:257: “There shall be no compulsion in religion.”
God revealed this verse near the end of Prophet Muhammad’s ministry, in Medina, after he peacefully retook Mecca and became the de facto ruler of all of Arabia. At a time when Prophet Muhammad could have forced anyone to become Muslim or suffer the sword, he did exactly the opposite.
The Qur’an categorically condemns any form of religious compulsion and ensures universal freedom of conscience remains free for people of all faiths and no faith. In fact, the verse following 2:257 further clarifies that those who still reject God can only be punished by God — no human being has that right.
ISIS, meanwhile, uses weapons to force people to submit to its beliefs. This is in total contradiction to Islam and Prophet Muhammad. But none of this is new. His Holiness the Khalifa of Islam Mirza Masroor Ahmad has loudly declared multiple times, “The actions and statements of ISIS and other extremists who pretend to represent Islam, whils

whilst all the while spreading hatred and violence, run entirely contrary to the peaceful teachings of Islam.”

Qur’an 22:40: “Permission to fight is given to those against whom war is made, because they have been wronged.”
This verse, revealed in Medina, is the very first time the Qur’an ever addressed fighting. And the very first thing God declares is that fighting is permitted only for those against whom war is made. This requires no deep interpretation or verbal gymnastics. Pre-emptive war is categorically un-Islamic.
Meanwhile, ISIS continues to wage pre-emptive war by conquering sovereign lands and killing journalists, non-combatants, civilians, and doctors. These are all acts specifically forbidden by Islam’s detailed rules of war.
But what does it mean to “have been wronged” and therefore given permission to fight in self-defense? Lest some twisted minds think they get to decide what it means to “have been wronged,” the Qur’an’s very next verse defines exactly that.

Qur’an 22:41: “Those who have been driven out from their homes unjustly only because they said, ‘Our Lord is God’ — And if God did not repel some men by means of others, there would surely have been pulled down cloisters and churches and synagogues and mosques, wherein the name of God is oft commemorated.”
Thus, the Qur’an defines “have been wronged,” as a person who has met two more conditions. The first: one who has been unjustly driven from his own home. The second: being driven out on account of faith.
This verse was also revealed in Medina. In Mecca the Muslims sought permission to fight back and defend themselves from attack and persecution. Prophet Muhammad’s reply was simple and unwavering, “I have not been given permission to fight. I have been admonished to remain patient.”
History records this. Despite facing brutal persecution, economic and social boycott to the point of starvation, and murder — all on account of their faith — the Muslims never raised a finger in Mecca

Instead, they first waited in patience and were unjustly driven out to Medina by the violent Meccans.

ISIS has unjustly driven out thousands of innocent Muslims, Christians, and Yazidis on account of their faith — acts that align them with the violent Meccans.
The latter part of this verse imposes a fourth condition before granting permission to fight in self-defense — that is, Muslims must fight to protect universal freedom of conscience. Otherwise, war is un-Islamic. Every subsequent Qur’anic verse on “combatting disbelievers” is read in light of the above criteria — fighting without having met those violates the Qur’an.
ISIS terrorists have not fulfilled a single one of these criteria. Thus, ISIS’s every act contradicts Islam.

@carna_asada and @ogchucknorris I hope this shows you the truth

Murder in my religion is one of the worst sins a person could do god says "if you kill a person its like killing the whole mankind and if you save a person its like saving the whole mankind"

@carne_asada wait, wait, you want me to read the Bible to see how it's all about peace and love EXCEPT FOR ONE PART? Are you fucking retarded?

Ok Darth if your religion teaches peace than why is there a higher percentage of Muslims committing violent crimes than any other religion. Why has your religion have one of the most violent and brutal histories even could be argued the most brutal. They have had many empires that were built on the conquest of other countries. The Muslims of the middle east established a slave trade that would be more harsh and enslave 10 times the number of slaves over a longer period of time than any Christian group. They have continued to murder and kill people who are against their religion or does not follow their teachings. For example hamas, throwing gays off buildings, Honor killings. These are not done by isis these were done by the governments of these Muslim nations. So I am sorry when I do not believe in this religion of peace. I believe you think murder is bad but I also think your definition of murder is completely different from the rest of the worlds.

The spread of Christianity was violent.

Not modern day.
And if you are talking about the crusades... just do some research.

my sect of christianity was not im saying though the violence was on a large scale and considering a religion that was all about peace it does not seem very peaceful

Not the crusades. I'm talking about Norway.

what about norway

Yo the only reason they went to war was because they were driven out their homes dont try to debate with me abiut my own religion because im way more learned than you dont make yourself look stupid

Destroying temples, killing pagan resisters. But that was a long time ago. And in the modern day, Anders Breivik, who killed around 70 people.
It's not equal, but you cannot pretend that Christianity is totally peaceful. I believe that that man is deluded and not truly Christian, just as any Islamic terrorist is not truly Muslim.

And talking about gay, gay was somewhat illegal and against our religion if they dont abide the law what happens they get killed not like today if someone rapes someone they just get years in jail

@darth29 I hope I'm misreading this, but it seems you're defending the killing of gay people. That is not okay

Thats just my religion times have changed since then there is no prophet to guy my people now what they do is only for god to judge

And yes you did misread that the only reason I said that was because it was a law that time and it was illegal not in todays time anymore

The Orlando shooter pledged allegiance to ISIS

So? he aint muslim if thats what you trying to prove

Yeah. He was.
A radical Muslim, yes, and I surely believe that you were against anything he did, but he was a Muslim nonetheless

Do you got proof that he was muslim?

In a call to 9-1-1 during the shooting, Mateen identified himself as "Mujahideen", "Islamic Soldier", and "Soldier of God"; and pledged his allegiance multiple times to the militant jihadist group Islamic State of Iraq and the Levant (ISIL)

So you proved to me that he is muslim well what was your reason you told that to me in the first place?

Ugh. Stop getting offended. It is RADICAL islam. Not normal Islam. RADICAL Islam is bad. NORMAL islam is Good.
Thats all i've been trying to say

At first you were bombing my religion alot

And if they are "radical muslims" they are not muslim at all

Uh. Yeah. They are. That is where we disagree my friendo.

What makes them "muslim"?

And dont tell me because they say they are "mujaahideen" because anyone can say that am I right?

They worship Allah, practice Islam, and believe in the stories

Once they break the rules then they are not worshipping their god anymore thats how it works

Oh and here is something that you can do research on alot of people dont know that there is two types of muslims sunni that is what I am and that is the right type of muslim then there is shi'a they are the more crazy people they are like hella crazy to the point where they will kill sunni's if the sunni's doesnt believe in god the way they do and they do this almost to all religions if you do not believe in their ways they'll torture you until you and if you dont they'll kill like what ISIS do

Well if Islam has to include isis, then cristianity gets the Spanish Inquisition, the crusaders, the pilgrims, etc...

like I said before this is a comparison of statistics Christianity terroism statistics are waaay lower compared to islam. You do not have a few crazy people but instead you have millions following this extreme way of thinking. It is easy for you to say you are the true side of a religion but my issues lie with the fact that all these millions of people are bred from the same text as you. Christians are not killing currently btw in the same numbers as Muslims. This is an issue right now that is the focus not to disprove your religion. That is why you cannot compare them to the crusades because the crusades are not a current problem as much as you would like to think. It is not just isis more than isis have endorsed hamas honor killings and the imprisonment and beating of gay people. I have not said that christianity was peaceful but im saying that islam is not and christianity is not having a huge problem with extremism currently.

Millions? And all I'm saying is that cristianity used to be pretty damn violent, more so than isis, and Islam mostly peaceful. Now the tables have turned, however, this has nothing to do with religion.

Why would you keep on discussing with someone who a) is only listening to himself and b) is pulling all his arguments from where the sun never shines?

"The tables have turned"? In what way I have stated before the events that have previously been associated to the muslim faith. Here are some ive already listed. The conquering of the byzantine empire which led to the crusades btw. The expansion of their religion by conquering and the later forced indoctrination of people into that religion. They had the slave trade which was longer and more harsh than the atlantic one. These are a handful of events that muslims have taken an aggressive role in. These are not peaceful and yet again I have not stated that Christianity was not peaceful initially but in todays time has relaxed considerably while the muslim portion of the world has not. As for halfdead your argument is really hypocritical as most of your arguments were you stating things like oh his religion is crazy do not read that trust me.

Yes, third. That statement is half accurate, excet for Islam was not completely peaceful. Do you know what the crusades really were? It was the Islamic state expanding and expanding and expanding and conquering places that weren't theirs until Christians decided to retake all the places. They were violent and terrible, ues, but Islam was still violent back then.
Now, Christianity has gone through reform, and we see little to no Christian terrorists. Islam needs a reform to get rid of the extremists.
DISCLAIMER: to the SJWs, I did not just call all Muslims terrorists. I said it is an extreme sect

I say "Islam was MOSTLY peaceful." You say "no third, Islam was not COMPLETELY peaceful." What the hell is wrong with you?

Islam conquered territory in the middle ages, sure, but how do you think christianity spread throughout europe? I haven't actually researched this, but my guess is that it wasn't entirely peaceful

It was pretty damn bloody, but I only know about Norway

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anders_Behring_Breivik

I
Am
Talking
About
Modern
Day
That
Was
Before
Christianity
Went
Through
Reform
FUCK

What the fuck Carne, did you even read it? That was in 2011-2012!

im agreeing that long ago each side was not peaceful I am saying though christianity is WAYYY more peaceful now than islam is. Islam is committing the MAJORITY OF ALL ATTACKS. A MAJORITY NOT ALL OF THEM.

Islam is a religion, an idea that can be interpreted in many different ways. It's scriptures from thousands of years ago and there are literally thousands of ways to interprete them. Islam does not have a will, a brain or hands. It's people who commit crimes and terroristic acts. Anders Breivik did not act as a christian when he killed those people, at least not according to most christians, as they have chosen to respect different fragments of these old scriptures than he did. Same as most muslims do not accept ISIS members as muslims. Its not the religion that makes people act the way they do, its the circumstances they live under. It's not a causal connection between their acts and their religion, it's a correlation. It's usually not about words, but resources.

What about the Muslims who think it's ok to kill gay people for being gay, or Jews for being Jewish? And I'm not talking about ISIS. I'm talking about Joe Blow Muslim. You guys need to remember, there's 1.8 billion of you guys. Even if 100,000,000 of you guys aren't extremists, you're still in the minority by a pretty huge margin. And you wanna know the fucked up part? There is literally no way to tell you apart. So what the fuck are we supposed to do about it? How do we trust you guys? It'd be one thing if you guys ratted eachother out, but did you know that Muslim communities in Paris were hiding the Paris shooters? You wanna know what would happen if a couple of Christians tried to hide among Christians after a terrorist attack? We would let them in, and then call the police. Or just turn them away, either way.

Great argumentation. So when I say there's 300 mil americans, and only 1 mil of them are decent people, these are in a minority by an even higher margin. Where I got this figure? Same place as you did. Assholes be hiding other assholes, so what? You're the kind of person who apparently just makes up arguments and numbers to "prove" his point. Is that because you're a christian? Is that what 98% of christians do?

Lookit, the only reason I care is because there are thousands and thousands of Muslims all across the Western world that want to fuck with my way of life. They want to institute Sharia, and make it illegal to criticize Islam, and that doesn't sit well with me! If all you were doing was in you Mosques and praying to Allah and the Prophet, I wouldn't give two shits about Islam. Instead, you guys want to change my way of life, and import a shitload of people who's way of thinking is anathema to the Western/American way of life. You know, personal freedom and all that jazz.

'Thousands and thousands' yeah right.

I agree that it can be interpreted in many ways my only issue is that islam has a huge number of people interpreting this in an extreme way here is my source http://www.breitbart.com/national-security/2014/09/04/myth-tiny-radical-minority/ so now you can stop complaining about me pulling numbers out of nowhere. My main issue here is you do not see christians blowing themselves up in every year. You do not see christian groups declaring war on all of western civilization. You do not see millions of chrstians condoning or committing violent acts. You do however see this behavior is muslims and a lot of them as seen by my source.

Every time someone uses breitbart as a source, I die a little inside.

Ooohkaay... the Bible and Breitbart. Now I can really stop questioning the validity of your sources. And chakun, if these muslims wanted shariah, they could have stayed where they came from. Instead they rather chose to be in pursuit of personal freedom and all that jazz. Are you though?

Im just using breibart for the polls which idk if you have information that is unbiased to share with all of us go ahead. You have not brought any statistical sources to counter mine and i feel you are dodging the things im saying by first saying i do not have sources than when i bring them saying my sources are so biased they are invalid despite you not bringing any sources whatsoever. Also the flaw in your logic is the places where they live are in economic turmoil they would want to move her but also keep the system that the government is run on. You can see this by the protest that occur in england do a google search and you will see.

http://pamelageller.com/category/honor-killings-islam-misogyny/ here is a list of honor killings that occurred from muslims. We do not see these with christians now are you gonna return with info or simply do what is easiest in claiming my sources hold no validity. I would suggest you address the info and actually reply with something else of your own. (might help you out a bit more)

"If they wanted shariah they could have just stayed where they were." that's what I'm saying! And if you dont think there are Muslims trying to implement shariah, you are seriously deluded.

How about the cristians, many of whom are just as opposed to gays as those "muslims" you pretend are the majority? And who also want to abolish abortion and other forms of birth control and stomp on women's and minorities rights?

Ah, but what religion was the shooter of the gays in Orlando?

Who are the ones shooting up planned parenthood?

That is not terrorism

For all practical intents and purposes they are the same.

Define terrorism. So many people switch to islam jist before committing a crime so they have an excuse and a way to create disproportionate amounts of fear.

@third No. Killing people is terrorism. Being morally opposed to aborting a fetus is not terrorism
@silvermyth Who are you talking about?

I'm talking about the guy who fucking SHOT UP a planned parenthood.

Oh ok. Well let's just ignore the fact that 1) he was delusional, mentally unstable to even have a trial; admitted into a mental hospital and 2) he wasnt religiously opposed to abortion; just morally.

https://thinkprogress.org/why-converts-to-islam-are-so-susceptible-to-becoming-terrorists-118582cfa179
Here are a few examples of converting
And the man committed an act of terrorism

Ok. Now take everything you said and apply it to the Muslim.

@silvermyth
So the article said that Islam is very easy to interpret as terrorism and takes years of study to learn the full context??

@third smh bro. He had pledged allegience to ISIS just before the shooting. So yes, it did have to do with religion. You cant be morally opposed to gays. Not only that, he got an "above average rating" on the Minnesota Multiphasic Personality Inventory test, so he was mentally stable

Yeah, but when you understand what it's all about, you'll know it not about terrorism. I've lived in muslim dominated countries and it very interesting. I just hope you'll realize that it not a religion of terror. You seem to imply that it is.

Well... I believe Islam, like every religion, has core values of peace, but under layers and layers of violence and war. Just read 5 verses of the Quran to understand

Read the whole Quran to understand what's it is really about

Have you read it? I have, and I can say it REALLY seems to be all about war and fighting and violence, compared to the New Testament, which is all about love and peace and that shit (with the exception of Jesus flipping over the tables at the temple but I'm an atheist so I'm not about to defend Christianity)

Oh cool, a fellow atheist. Yeah, I have. But I'd say that is more about how the book is interpreted.

Ok. I agree with that, but it's REALLY easy to interpret it to mean violence and terror

I can understand that. People can interpret things any way they want to, and religion is a easy way excuse to justify one's violent desires.

You are comparing being against abortion something we view as murder and being against gay marriage in our temples to honor killings and suicide bombings? Where is your mind at? Ok one guy shot up a planned parent hood how many bombings have muslims been responsible for in the last couples years. How many honor killings occured why dont you go count the list again. You are not being realistic. Like I said either you cannot read or you are just being ignorant the amount of terrorist attacks that occur form the islamic religion are leagues ahead of any other faith especially Christianity. I believe that we have the freedom of religion that states that no gay can marry in a temple of god it is gods will not mans. To compare that to honor killings is absolutely idiotic.

I'm saying it's easy to interpret ANY religion as pro-violence. People use religious justification left and right, however I do not consider that religiously motivated. I don't see the planned parenthood guy as any more or less religious than the nightclub shooter. The major cause is culture, and, the reason so many use Islam as justification for violence is the fact it just happens to be the main religion in those third world areas.

that is true but my issue is how is it that in areas that could be equally violent south america or africa which have high christian influences are not committing these atrocities in mass for christianity? A lot of the honor killings seen above happened in european or north american countries. Not middle eastern suburbs. That is the troubling factor that I am having with this.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't believe those are as bad as the Middle East, which in almost constant warfare.

For the record, I tell christians to shut the fuck up too. But when I tell Muslims to shut the fuck up I get called a racist. Also, Muslims are waaaay worse when it comes to homosexuality.

OH really you are going to downgrade the ruthless drug trade with the cartels or the african war lords who massacre villages and enslave children. I do not think one is better than the other and to say those are not as bad and therefore is an explanation for why they do not kill under Christianity has no correlation. Tell the enslaved children and the people missing limbs that their life is pretty easy compared to the middle east

I think, and this is just speculation, that muslims might commit more terror attacks in the western world than south american christians because south american christians are, as the name implies, christian. The western world is also christian, therefore there is more similarity between us and south americans than between us and muslims. The middle east is more likely to hate the west than south america is because to the middle east the west really is the "other" and throughout history, people have always hated the "other".

Also most south american colonies became independent from the west relatively early compared to africa and parts of asia, including the middle east. Maybe the middle east has fresher memories of the west mucking everything up, causing more dislike.

The middle east was not colonized by europeans though. Also im sorry but im confused are you trying to say because the middle east is so different from the rest of christian society that they are committing extreme acts under their religious name? If so where is the justification because of what the crusades that occured centuries ago they are going massacre Christians. It is not as if they just shook off an oppressing Christian government. Are they gonna blame the western world for ww2 and ww1 cause I do not believe that is any form of colonization or reason to attack the western world.

Middle east wasnt exactly colonised, but the british and french did rule over it i believe

And I'm not justifying anything, I'm saying that humans are violent creatures and will always find a reason to wreak havoc amongst other groups, be it skin colour, religion, or whatever else you can think of

im not disagreeing but im finding issues in the fact that a large portion of terror attacks are going towards the muslim faith. That is appearing problematic and the british and french ruled very small portions around the edges.

Yes that is a bad thing, I agree it would be a good thing if the middle east would modernise. Sadly, due to their oil, it is likely the whole area will remain a war zone until we become less dependent on oil.

Or until their faith has a reformation I would agree but the flaw is you still see muslims in modern western cultures committing these atrocities most of the honor killings i listed above occured in modern western areas.

In that case they havent adapted to western culture properly, and i wouldnt know how to fix that, im a complete layman

Stop associating all muslims with the terrorists. The Quran needs no reform as we've made clear. It is being deliberately misinterpreted to justify terrorism and you're fucking retarded if you think that changing the Quran in any way would change things, even if you could get the changes accepted as valid.

You are retarded if you think im associating all muslims with terroism. You are ignorant im simply stating that they are statistically higher in committing these extreme acts in their religion. Ive also debunked you many excuses because you are so ignorant you cannot see it is the religion. When millions of people are getting extreme ideas from the same text it needs reform. Now stop being ignorant maybe actually point out some things instead of insulting and stating things i have not said.

how many times must I explain the religion is the justification, not the source? People don't read the Quran and say "huh, clearly I have to go blow something up," they want to blow something up, and find a way to interpret the Quran that says they should do it. And you can do that with absolutely anything, when there is no one to hold you to real logic. And that's a big part of religions danger.

how do you know that? Did you interview them because all that i know for a fact that a large number of people keep pledging themselves to the muslim faith before they blow themselves up. Why is it the muslim faith if people are gonna do something they are gonna do something. That does not make sense why would they pledge themselves when they blow up they are gonna be dead. and why are so many people doing it? Does everyone just love the faith so much that they are gonna do it.

The people who decide to commit terrorism are muslims. This is pure coincidence. They twist their religion to justify their actions. What about this is hard for you to understand?

so you are saying that it just happens to be a coincidence that the majority of people
"twisting" their religion blowing themselves up and and killing people are muslim. Seems to be a little more than a coincidence

Religions tend to group together geographically right? If you accept what I'm saying about the cause being geographically based, do you not see how it's merely a coincidence that the impoverished, tumultuous region happens to be Islamic? And could just as easily be anything else.

So what is the reason they live in a crappy environment so they are going to declare war on the entire western world and blow themselves up? They all happen to come from the middle east and they are majority muslim. Yeah that makes sense they are all just from a crappy environment

The reason could be related to all the oil that everyone wants. In their eyes, the west has dragged them into many wars because of their oil, so that could be their reason to not like us very much

Yes actually. Perhaps you'd like to explain how muslims from first world countries are about the same with others when it comes to terrorism.

The oil they declared war on us because we kept taking your oil. Despite the fact that in a lot of their actions they kill just as many other muslims. Are you saying they are rightly justified to act in the way they are acting then. I fail to see how honor killing coral ate with wars on oil.

You know just as well as I do that I'm not saying that their actions are justified. It is true that honour killings are a terrible thing that needs to stop, like I said before, they need to modernise

I don't really understand the first part of your comment, I'm not a native speaker, sorry

It doesn't look like he's a native speaker as well. Although his knowledge of history, religion and politics would indicate he's an American. Which is apparently not a contradiction...

Apparently all you can do is insult. Actually argue if you are going to talk crap you are not worth my time though because you state false knowledge every historical event i said was true and trust me you insulting my political and religious knowledge is pretty hilarious. Now i'm sorry yimmye let me rephrase it for you I was typing fast trying to catch the last of a basketball game. They declared war on us because we kept taking their oil. If that sentence is true why is it they kill people who are not muslim in their country. If you do not follow their faith regardless if you are native to their land they will kill you.

Ah, you mean like yezidis and the like. I do think that those are targeted because of their religion, however I also believe that most muslims disagree with these horrible acts. I agree with you that middle eastern culture is outdated and needs an upgrade in certain areas. All I'm saying is that we should not let terrorism divide us. The vast majority of muslims living in the west are peaceful, and singling them out because of their religion, weakening our social construct, that's exactly what terrorists want. I'm sure you know this already and that's not really what this conversation is about anymore, but that's all I wanted to say

ok I can agree that their are a lot of muslims who do not agree with these ideas. The issue here though is that I do not agree that it is not a majority but that is an argument no one can win because no one can truly prove ones true ideas or intentions.