Then what were Jesus's rules against homosexuals? Because I'm pretty sure every Christian homophobes rationalization against gays are quoted from the Old testament, not the gospels.
Jesus didn't explicitly say anything against homosexual behaviour
He did, however, say "A man shall leave his father and mother and be joined with his wife, and the two will become into one flesh" (Matthew 19:5)
This of course means his plan is for heterosexual behaviour and relationships
No. There is nothing wrong with having sex with a guy and it is moronic to believe so. I'm not going to sit here and explain to you why homophobia is a wrong thing. I'm just glad that religion is finally dying out now that you guys can no longer kill anyone who disagrees.
wow bro you got a serious complex against religion. It is a sin and sure they can do what they want but for us it is a sin whether you like it or not for christians it is a sin whether you think so or not. Not our rules bro its gods rules.
It's not a sin tho. Isn't the main thing against homosexuality from Leviticus ? Which was a set of man made laws at the time ?
And god hasn't got a pen, man wrote the bible so it's man made rules
We ask god and we have faith if you really want to know its true you ask god i can tell you its true but it dont matter if you really want to know though you ask god.
So you'd do everything the bible tells you to do then ? Cause if you use it to justify homophobia then, unless you're nitpicking which you shouldn't do if you have faith in the book, you're also using it to justify things like child brides and a woman should marry her rapist rules. Because if it's in the bible it's also gods rules.
Im not going to get into another bible argument i will tell you though if you're interested in knowing if it is true ask god for yourself sit down and pray if you truly want to know
@trashmanrevenge And I ask you to sit down and pray to Allah for forgiveness. Your god is actually less realistic than the Islamic god and both are completely ridiculous.
I'm gonna agree with i_ here. I grew up baptist. Praying didn't get me any answers and the people in the church I was in wasn't supportive.
And if all someone had to do was pray to get answers, wouldn't more people be religious and more studies be done into god and religion ?
I get if you don't want to debate, but telling me to pray and ask god is pretty much the same as telling me to go Google something but much less reliable
I just decided to do a bit of quick googling and after sorting out the bullshit ie "us telling god what to do", I have come to the conclusion that by and large, prayer should be a means of self reflection grounded in religious morality and principles.
Well all i know is growing up mormon that is what i was taught. If you prayed with a sincere intent to know god will not forsake you and will help you know if he is true or if his book is true. You must not give up keep praying for if you really want to know you will continue to try your hardest and pray. Now im not trying to push my religion on all of you and to each their own im just saying that is how ive gotten my answer how my church gets their answer it may not come the way you think it does an angel might not come out of the ceiling but i promise you god will answer believe it or not it is what I believe.
In the Catholic Church, being gay is alright, but having sex outside of marriage isn't okay. And, since the Church doesn't believe gay marriage is marriage, then it its eyes, all gay sex is extramarital sex, and therefore is sinful. That being said, the Church has also told ppl "hey don't hate on LGBTQ folks, Christ wants you to love them and also we're all sinners including all you peeps who are hating on gays so yeah" and it's up to the followers to heed the message
Let people believe what they want to believe though maybe there is a plot hole in their thinking but that does not mean you get to judge them and sue them for doing what they believe that is wrong that is the exact thing I thought gay people were fighting for to be accepted no matter what they believed or thought but then again some people dont get the full picture.
We shouldn't do that at all. We need to fight against this blatant discrimination. Just because some people believe something doesn't make it right. This is a rather extreme example, but here we go. Hitler and some Nazis believed Jews are less than human and should be put to death. Should we respect their opinion and let them do what they want? Should we respect the opinion that women shouldn't be allowed to vote or own land? A belief in something doesn't automatically deserve respect.
Doesnt need your respect but they are allowed to believe what they want nazis and kkk members are allowed to believe what they want and for good reason because who are we to say our opinion is better than yours. whether they act on their opinions and beliefs is a different matter but in this case they did but being a private business they are allowed to refrain from selling their goods to certain people. That is why i believe in capitalism because capitalism takes care of this they just lost a customer and people im sure are outraged and wont buy stuff there so they will lose business to other cake companies but i do not agree with holding a gun to their heads and forcing them to cater to people they dont want to cater to.
You dont have to but they are asking for a service from them and they refuse to give it so what move on they dont have to support you or your cause. They dont have to perform a service for you. They are not yelling slurs at them or throwing stuff at them or burning a cross in front of their house they are saying that they dont want to do something for them.
The couple did not sue the bakery though, they didn't take any sort of legal action against him but reported him. This all took place in Colorado, a state that has a public accommodation law that does not allow a business to refuse service based on discrimination such as this. The owner of the bakery has repealed the complaint stating it was in violation of his freedom of speech and the supreme court is deciding whether or not a cake is a form of speech/expression. According to the Colorado law, he broke the law and he's not legally allowed to refuse them service based on discrimination. He may be allowed to have those beliefs himself, but isn't allowed to discriminate his customers in this way. But its up to the supreme court to decide if cake is a protected form of speech/expression.
Should a Muslim bakery be forced to cater an event for the Westboro Baptist group? How about you let individuals live their lives and apply their morality and ideology to who they want to include in their lives. If that extends to their business then so be it, the free market will determine whether that’s a sustainable business model.
Govt forcing all types of people to interact with each other can never be the answer.
This case isn't as simple as people are allowed to do whatever they please with their business and their beliefs. The reason is because Colorado, where this took place, has a public accommodation law. The law meaning businesses are not allowed to refuse customers service based on discrimination of marital status amd sexual orientation. The bakery owner knows of this law, in order to get his business license, he agreed to these terms. By refusing them service he broke this law and can easily have his business license revoked. The owner claims its violates his freedom of speech/expression but it is up to the supreme court to decide if cake is a form of speech/expression. Especially if the cake, and the expression behind it, belong to those of the baker or the customer purchasing the cake
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deleted
· 6 years ago
*sigh*
We literally cannot respect someone's religion. America's very foundation and one of the first Amendments and just because it hurts people feelings, we have to hate and ban their religion.
I think it's more along the lines of not letting people use their religion as a cover to refuse service? While you should have a right to refuse service, imagine if someone used their religion to refuse service based on race or hair color ? That's just discriminatory for something that doesn't affect you at all.
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· 6 years ago
Refusing to service black people or redheads is different because there is no reason not to.
It's not in the Bible or the Ten Commandments.
(I'm talking Abrahamic religions)
When Yahweh cast Cain away from the garden he turned him into a black man to symbolize his evil wicked ways and that he should be avoided. How is that not racist?
Christianity isn't the only religion protected under the first amendment. Plus, either way, people can twist things whatever way they want to make their own rules. That's how subsects get made ( like you have all of Christianity then in that you have like 5 kinds of Catholics, a gazillion different types of orthodox, Baptist, 7th day Adventist, etc. )
And someone can be from another religion and try to make that claim. What if someone made a religion or cane from a subsect of one that said she shouldn't have contact with men ? She could use that to refuse service to all men and that would be sexist. Same with being black or red headed or anything else.
Plus, in A LOT of Christian artwork you'll see red headed eve and cain because they were influenced by evil and so they hate all red heads and some people in America actually believe this and hate red heads for it
But redheads are glorious! I'm working on a reddish-brown haired human rn! Well, actually if everyone started hating her for being a redhead it would make my job easier due to her losing all connections except me and a ruined self-esteem. Alright, I'm good with this.
Oh, by letting them have no friends besides you that'll stunt any emotional growth cause she won't grow up with others and so when she's older she'll be SUPER socially awkward based on how little connection she had to her peers as well as possibly no understanding of cultural references of her generation ( there's more to it im kind of blanking on it now ) also having no self esteem can sometimes lead to ED as well as depression and body dysmorphia
Except that I can then rebuild her entire life, but with me at the center instead. As she is also a female, I hope she doesn't get erectile dysfunction as I'm still not sure if I like men like that. I'll be honest and say that I actually have no idea if she has tits or not. I haven't checked oddly enough.
Denying women service is closer to Islam than anything. But I can see your point. Banning redheads or women isnt right because they aren't a minority of people(I'm in the minority) who demand that people forget the beliefs of their religion and service them. I'm not saying that blocking out gays from certain gays is okay, but slamming people because they're Christian isn't alright either.
Also, what the fuck Spiderman? I feel like you'd end up on gay porn one day...
It shouldn't matter if someone is a minority or not, your religion shouldn't give you an excuse to discriminate. And there's one thing between making someone who doesn't offer pork, because they arent allowed to even touch it, have it in their shop just so you can have some and telling someone you refuse to make them a cake, which is your whole business, because you don't like that they're in a same sex relationship when it doesn't do anything different than what you normally do, which is make cakes
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· 6 years ago
I feel that the issue is less about the customer being in a same-sex relationship and more about the shop owner not wanting his cakes at same-sex weddings. I hope and imagine (since I haven't met the guy) that he'd gladly make a cake for a gay guy's birthday party.
I see the issue this way: Should a t-shirt printer who is fundamentally opposed to gun rights (let's say it's on the religious grounds that he believes killing is immoral, and anything that could support killing is equally bad)—should he be forced to print pro-gun shirts for the 2nd-Amendment rally?
Whether I support the cake guy or not? Not sure—I'm still on the fence about it.
I mean, your business is making shirts. You're not going to wear the shirt, you're just making it because you have a business in selling shirts and people want to use that business to make shirts.
It's not like someone's asking you to make a shirt that's promoting a crime or something.
If someone had a hairdressing business and they refused to work on a certain race would you be fine with them turning them away because they didn't like their race ? Even if they could do their hair perfectly fine if they did it, not due to lack of skill? That's the same situation to me, it's discriminatory on personal feelings.
Hell if someone was the only cashier and their asshole ex came through the line would you expect them to check them out or would you expect them to wait around to get someone else to just check them out ? Their personal beef shouldn't be brought in the workplace.
An artist or craftsman's advertisement and endorsement is their product. If they don't want to be associated with a certain group or ideal, they won't make for or sell to them.
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· 6 years ago
Personal beef is different then someone's beliefs. You're taking the problem someplace it shouldn't be so you can argue it better.
I'm trying to get something similar to make an example. It's similar because religious beliefs are your personal beef and shouldn't be brought to the workplace. If you want, advertise yourself as a Christian bakery and make a note of stuff you won't do.
Like I said, if you're going to back religion as an excuse not to serve someone then be ready for people to discriminate against anyone and use religion to do it. Plenty of racists would love to do it against certain people and interracial couples and use their faith to justify it.
But if you want, just agree to disagree.
deleted
· 6 years ago
Religion and drama are way different things. You don't let drama form your morals and upbringing. If you want your faith in business, let it be in business. And FYI, most of the people who hate interracial couples can do very little about it, much less deny them service to a fucking bakery.
He did, however, say "A man shall leave his father and mother and be joined with his wife, and the two will become into one flesh" (Matthew 19:5)
This of course means his plan is for heterosexual behaviour and relationships
And god hasn't got a pen, man wrote the bible so it's man made rules
Also, it's people writing the bible from their own perspectives.
Or do you just take people's word that God told them that loving someone is a sin ?
And if all someone had to do was pray to get answers, wouldn't more people be religious and more studies be done into god and religion ?
I get if you don't want to debate, but telling me to pray and ask god is pretty much the same as telling me to go Google something but much less reliable
This is inaccurate on several levels
Govt forcing all types of people to interact with each other can never be the answer.
We literally cannot respect someone's religion. America's very foundation and one of the first Amendments and just because it hurts people feelings, we have to hate and ban their religion.
It's not in the Bible or the Ten Commandments.
(I'm talking Abrahamic religions)
And someone can be from another religion and try to make that claim. What if someone made a religion or cane from a subsect of one that said she shouldn't have contact with men ? She could use that to refuse service to all men and that would be sexist. Same with being black or red headed or anything else.
Also, what the fuck Spiderman? I feel like you'd end up on gay porn one day...
I see the issue this way: Should a t-shirt printer who is fundamentally opposed to gun rights (let's say it's on the religious grounds that he believes killing is immoral, and anything that could support killing is equally bad)—should he be forced to print pro-gun shirts for the 2nd-Amendment rally?
Whether I support the cake guy or not? Not sure—I'm still on the fence about it.
It's not like someone's asking you to make a shirt that's promoting a crime or something.
Hell if someone was the only cashier and their asshole ex came through the line would you expect them to check them out or would you expect them to wait around to get someone else to just check them out ? Their personal beef shouldn't be brought in the workplace.
Like I said, if you're going to back religion as an excuse not to serve someone then be ready for people to discriminate against anyone and use religion to do it. Plenty of racists would love to do it against certain people and interracial couples and use their faith to justify it.
But if you want, just agree to disagree.