But recent additions to the dictionary (doh, emoji) don’t contradict basic biology and attempt to legislate acceptance of a mental disorder while indoctrinating children into alifestyle that at best produces a body riddles with carcinogens and rocks a 40% suicide rate.
Genderfluid people are more or less people who sometimes feel feminine and sometimes feel masculine (or something in between). They don't usually get surgery, because what they feel like changes all the time and it would be unrealistic. The suicide rate for transgender people isn't 40%, the suicide attempt rate is. Maybe it's because of assholes like you trying to put them out of work and out of society. None of them believe that their biological sex is anything different than what they were born with. They think that their gender, which is now defined as what society associates with sex, is different. Now, gender and sex have come to mean different things. Even if you don't believe it, you can respect people. Children are rarely indoctrinated into it.
They don't feel like a woman or a man sometimes. They change between the two for periods of time. Genderfluidity is a subject I'm not an expert on, but transwoman and transmen actually do exist and are perfectly compliant and even predicted by biology. It has never been properly named a mental disorder and many tests have repeatedly shown that they are not a mental disorder.
In studies where trans people grew up treated like actual humans, a crazy concept to idiots like you, they had the same suicide rates as their cis counterparts. The only reason they have increased suicide rates is because fucks like you constantly tell us that we're subhuman. It's funny how you cause us of indoctrination when you're the one indoctrinating people into automatically hating transpeople.
If you are referring to gender dysphoria, then you have even less ground to stand on. Gender dysphoria is the condition where one feels distress and psychological harm from being a different gender than the one their body displays. This isn't trans people. All people with dysphoria are trans, but not all trans people have dysphoria. As soon as that individual matches what their brain is saying they are, then the dysphoria goes away leaving a mentally sound person.
If you would just treat them like a human and have them human rights, then dysphoria wouldn't even be a significant issue as a large portion of that dysphoria stems from people who don't realize that purposefully misgendering someone actually causes psychological harm.
To me the problem with gender fluidity is most of the people who claim it will also claim that gender is a social construct and theres no such thing as masculine and feminine traits. Ya can't have both
2
deleted
· 6 years ago
I love it when people use "basic biology" as an argument. Yea, that's exactly your problem: thinking in strict terms of XX vs XY is way too basic to explain much of what you're dealing with after 5th grade in school. Not to mention real life.
okay I am not transphobic at all and I recognize they exist and should be treated better. But there has never been any studies showing bullying and suicide rate have any correlation and I don't find that a solid argument. As a person who grew up suicidal it pisses me off that people constantly try to say that. (Literally cannot stress enough, not transphobic, love everyone, gender fluidity is a different issue its just this one argument I'm bitching about)
X, Y, XX, XY, XXX, XXY, XYY, XXXX, XXXY, XXYY, XYYY, XXXXX, XXXXY, and so on
And before you say these people are “diseased,” there is typically nothing medically wrong with them, they just happen to have chromosomes outside of what is considered normal. In other words, their sex is only considered abnormal because they fall into the minority of people
And intersex ppl are not always ppl with these chromosomes. More often, they are people who have certain hormonal absences or sensor absences (or deficiencies), which results in a genital variation
Source: medical degree
That's not a different sex altogether though
And it's not considered abnormal because they're " in the minority " it's considered abnormal because it's a rare thing that happens to people. I never said they were disabled,just that it's a medical anomoly for it to happen.
i couldn't load the figure you gave me, and for that I apologize. But I found some of my own; "However, the way the studies were designed made it impossible for researchers to determine conclusively whether bullying leads to suicide, Kim said. In addition, the authors report that most of the studies failed to take into account the influence of factors like gender, psychiatric problems and a history of suicide attempts." Based off a study at Yale. https://news.yale.edu/2008/07/16/bullying-suicide-link-explored-new-study-researchers-yale Also the fact That the bullying rate has actually gone down exponentially in the past 10 years and the suicide rate has nearly doubled since 2008.
@diyrogue if XX is a different sex from XY (female and male respectively) then what is X?
Sex is determined by our chromosomes. Since there are more than 2 chromosome combination, there are more than 2 sexes.
Because even if you have an extra X you still have sets of male and female parts even if they're mixed up. It's just adding sexual characteristics where they're not supposed to be. A man isn't supposed to have ovaries or extra breastage going on but it can happen, that doesn't mean all of a sudden he's a new sex because a genetic anomaly happened.
If something else happened that wasn't X or Y or it was a new mixture ( maybe YX although not sure how that would happen) then that would be another story.
XX individuals can be born with a penis. XY individuals can be born with a vagina. To cut down on confusion and to get to the heart of what really matters medically speaking, scientists created the idea of sex to refer to chromosomes.
So you can medically be a woman and have a penis. You can medically be a man and have vagina. You can be neither XX or XY and have either of those things or something in between. Yes, there are body parts in between.
Source: I’m a literal medical doctor and a scientist and at the most basic, non-political level, this is what science says about sex
All I get from that is that it exists, not really anything that makes an argument that it should count it as another sex, especially since most people who are intersex and habe different chromosomes choose to present as male or female. But maybe I'm not reading it as it should be?
To me it'd be like calling gingers something else when all it is is a mutation that effects a small part of the population with slight changes in biology.
@hopeforall using your logic then people with down syndrome are a completely different sex. For someone who claims to be a "literal medical doctor and a scientist" you sound like someone who gets their resources from Tumblr
I’m talking about sex chromosomes. SEX CHROMOSOMES. Do you guys seriously not know the difference between someone with Down Syndrome and someone with an extra sex chromosome?? Please refer to the resources I’ve linked above or don’t look at them at all
I want to see a movie (a comedy) about Shakespeare competing in scrabble tournaments across the US now. And he has to be constantly insulting people's moms.
I'm trying to come up with a scenario where Shakespeare wouldn't improve the scenario. The closest I've come his having him narrate while in a gas chamber... but even then... that kinda makes the gas chamber better.
Personally I just don't get why people get so mad about other people living their own life in a way that makes them happy. My dad has flat out told me "you can't change biology because of your feelings" as if A) hormone therapy doesn't exist, and B) it's apparently stupid for someone to seek out ways that make their life happier so they aren't miserable all the time.
Honestly, they're not harming anyone, and its not someone else's job to tell someone how they're allowed to feel happy.
I'm going to play devil's advocate for a second. Technically you could be harming someone emotionally. I mean... people get butthurt over stupid stuff all the freaking time. This comment is literally going to make SOMEONE somewhere butthurt. It's not my intention, it just is going to happen.
Honestly, I do totally agree with you about if someone isn't doing anything illegal or harming you it's none of your business.
My only issue comes when I have people telling me I need to agree 100% with them and their ideas or I'm "blank"-phobic or trying to say that me not knowing their pronouns or identity right off the bat means I should be jailed or especially when they try to justify their identity through homophobic and transphobic means.
@diabetes "they're not harming anyone" except for the people who get socially crucified, losing their jobs and being harassed online, because they happened to use the wrong pronoun
I've seen people get a chicks husband deported for not being a feminist and wasn't one guy wrongly harrassed and assaulted because people claimed he was at a " Nazi rally " when at the time he was really in another state?
And why should I lose my job because someone wants to change their pronouns every day and I don't know automatically or they want some special xir pronouns that I find stupid?
I agree that there are people who take it too far, but you have to consider that on one side people are angry because their community has been attacked for so long for having an identity, and on the other side people are upset because no one is letting them be assholes about those identities anymore.
I agree no one should lose their job over unintentional misunderstandings, but just because you think it's stupid doesn't mean you get to tell people what they can and can't do to make their life happy.
Plus the fact that you seem to think those angry people who are out for blood take up the majority of the community shows that you don't actually care about researching things that don't support your opinion because I can guarantee you that most of the genderqueer community aren't out to get people fired or deported. They just want to stop being murdered and ostracized and attacked.
It's not a matter of being transphobic to not call someone zey, zet, or whatever other shitty pronoun they want to use. You're a nice person if you do use those pronouns for them, but if you don't then you're not transphobic unless you are intentionally using the wrong pronouns as a form of harrassment or abuse. It is transphobic to intentionally call a transwoman a man or a transman a woman when you have been informed of their proper gender repeatedly.
As I said in another comment, it is actually harmful to purposefully misgender someone due to a neat little thing called gender dysphoria which is an illness where one's body doesn't match what their brain is hardwired to be e.g. a boy body with a female mind.
In studies where trans people grew up treated like actual humans, a crazy concept to idiots like you, they had the same suicide rates as their cis counterparts. The only reason they have increased suicide rates is because fucks like you constantly tell us that we're subhuman. It's funny how you cause us of indoctrination when you're the one indoctrinating people into automatically hating transpeople.
If you would just treat them like a human and have them human rights, then dysphoria wouldn't even be a significant issue as a large portion of that dysphoria stems from people who don't realize that purposefully misgendering someone actually causes psychological harm.
And before you say these people are “diseased,” there is typically nothing medically wrong with them, they just happen to have chromosomes outside of what is considered normal. In other words, their sex is only considered abnormal because they fall into the minority of people
Source: medical degree
And it's not considered abnormal because they're " in the minority " it's considered abnormal because it's a rare thing that happens to people. I never said they were disabled,just that it's a medical anomoly for it to happen.
Sex is determined by our chromosomes. Since there are more than 2 chromosome combination, there are more than 2 sexes.
If something else happened that wasn't X or Y or it was a new mixture ( maybe YX although not sure how that would happen) then that would be another story.
So you can medically be a woman and have a penis. You can medically be a man and have vagina. You can be neither XX or XY and have either of those things or something in between. Yes, there are body parts in between.
Source: I’m a literal medical doctor and a scientist and at the most basic, non-political level, this is what science says about sex
Here’s an excellent explanation by Nadia Nongzai:
https://www.quora.com/Scientifically-how-many-sexes-genders-are-there
She gets a little technical with her explanation, but that’s only because it’s so in depth.
Here’s the Wikipedia articles for chromosomal abnormalities and intersex people too
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chromosome_abnormality
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intersex
I can point you to primary sources (by searching sex in google scholar and clicking on the pub med pages) if you’d like but those are VERY dense and VERY technical since they’re written for geneticists in the sex chromosome field. Nevertheless I’ll provide a few as well:
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3786754/
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/16327292/
To me it'd be like calling gingers something else when all it is is a mutation that effects a small part of the population with slight changes in biology.
"Bitch it does now"
The o ret whore Ical filly ning ene scrop scy
...because it's two words.
Honestly, they're not harming anyone, and its not someone else's job to tell someone how they're allowed to feel happy.
Tragic
My only issue comes when I have people telling me I need to agree 100% with them and their ideas or I'm "blank"-phobic or trying to say that me not knowing their pronouns or identity right off the bat means I should be jailed or especially when they try to justify their identity through homophobic and transphobic means.
And why should I lose my job because someone wants to change their pronouns every day and I don't know automatically or they want some special xir pronouns that I find stupid?
I agree no one should lose their job over unintentional misunderstandings, but just because you think it's stupid doesn't mean you get to tell people what they can and can't do to make their life happy.
Plus the fact that you seem to think those angry people who are out for blood take up the majority of the community shows that you don't actually care about researching things that don't support your opinion because I can guarantee you that most of the genderqueer community aren't out to get people fired or deported. They just want to stop being murdered and ostracized and attacked.
As I said in another comment, it is actually harmful to purposefully misgender someone due to a neat little thing called gender dysphoria which is an illness where one's body doesn't match what their brain is hardwired to be e.g. a boy body with a female mind.