Drug companies have been upping the price of insulin recently. They have no explanation and they are all doing it. Some people believe it to be a form of price gouging.
I get there is always inflation and all so the prices must go up but thats just too much
Not to mention, for people who need medicine, they NEED it or they die.
When the prices of cosmetics and other luxurious items go up, I get upset but I will live
So keeping in mind I am not diabetic, I've never bought insulin, etc etc etc, I'm just going to through a couple links up here.
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First one:
https://www.goodrx.com/blog/how-much-does-insulin-cost-compare-brands/
-Simply talks about a few different brands that supply insulin, as well as some of the factors that cause certain insulin to be more expensive. This does not really address the issue she brings up because she's used the same insulin with, presumably, no new features (hasn't upgraded to fast-acting or a pen etc). But I still thought it was interesting.
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Next link takes an actual look into possible reasons how and why the price has risen so dramatically (spoiler alert: an oligarchy is involved):
https://beyondtype1.org/the-insulin-pricing-machine/
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They don't seem to have any conclusive reasoning because, as they say, there's absolutely 0 transparency when it comes to the money in the production and distribution of insulin
"Manufacturers typically sell their medications to wholesalers, who then handle distribution to individual pharmacies. Sometimes, however, a pharmacy chain will deal directly with the manufacturer. While wholesalers typically purchase their medications for close to the list price, they often receive a “handling fee” from the manufacturer. This is a fixed percentage of the list price, and good luck finding out what it is unless you’re making the deal. Wholesalers then sell medications to pharmacies, with little to no markup. They may, however, charge the higher list price. Pharmacies dispense the medication to individual patients and collect reimbursement from insurance companies.
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That path, from manufacturer to patient, seems fairly direct, and it is. But the flow of money is a sordid and hidden mess.
(Cont)
The ADA’s working group, in fact, confirmed a lack of transparency throughout the insulin supply chain. Companies manufacturing insulin often don’t easily disclose what it costs them to make the product to wholesalers. Pharmacy benefit managers (PBMs) often don’t disclose what price they sell insulins to pharmacies or how much they receive in rebates from the drug companies. Pharmacies fail to tell patients how much they’re being reimbursed by insurance companies. Basically the left hand often doesn’t not know what the right hand is doing, cost points are set indiscriminately, and consumers (i.e. patients) get burned."
They do mention there have been petitions and congressional meetings to try and gain transparency with little results so far it seems.
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I did see several people in my wanderings mention that this seems to be a problem caused not by the supply of insulin, but more by the location. For example, many people mentioned they'd actually crossed the border from America to Canada to purchase insulin because the price difference is so steep.
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Again, I don't know enough about insulin, but, assuming I'm reading this right (and based on these two websites alone), it doesn't look like that's entirely incorrect:
Please correct me if any of this looks incorrect. They appeared to be the same insulin pen to me, but what do I know.
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Bearing in mind Canada has health care, and the Canadian website does mention it may require your health care card when you order. I did briefly go to the first stage of shipping and it didn't ask me for my card number (though it could easily do so later on). But there's still the potential some of the cost of insulin is being covered under that umbrella. Otherwise it may simply be that the cost reduces if you use your card. I am uncertain how it works on this particular website. However, The website is mentioned in this chat about people trading their insulin buying experiences: https://forum.fudiabetes.org/t/purchasing-insulin-in-canada-in-person/1747/3
Law is one of the primary factors in location based differences in medical costs. If you sell a medication in the US for human use it must be clearly and consistently marked and adhere to certain standards with colors and size etc being consistent for easy identification. There is something called te Merck manual. Consider it like a catalog for drugs. In it you can find pictures and identifying characteristics for most may legal pull in America. Ok. Now- pick a drug. Something like an expensive or prescription antibiotic. Look it up in the Merck Manual. Now- go to the livestock feed or verterenary supply. Now order that drug by it’s generic name. Wow. Look at that- it’s the same EXACT pill from the Merck Manual. A pill which would cost $10-20 each without insurance from a human pharmacy, and you can get over 1,000 for under $100. How strange. You see- and this is also a survivalist tip- many pharma companies make a pill and go through testing it for legality, so they already have...
... the pill. So they just sell the same thing in veterinary use. Except... somehow much cheaper. Much. Much. Much cheaper. Because when you’re raising 1,000+ animals you plan to kill, each one has a dollar value. Let’s say maybe a couple hundred bucks? So you won’t pay thousands of dollars to keep it alive will you? But a human life... oh. What is that worth? The the human in question it is worth everything usually. Funny enough- you can’t be legally held to a contract you signed under fear of death. If Bill Gates is dying in the desert and you tell him that you’ll save his life for all his money, get a signed document and even bring a notary- when you get back- that contract is void. You’ll likely go to jail most places too- especially if he didn’t sign and you let him die. “He wouldn’t pay” isn’t legally defensible. But here we are. Why it’s so expensive isn’t a mystery. Yes- sometimes supplies change, ingredients are short a season or hard to get or you have to order through a new.
.. chain. Maybe the raw material supplier is facing new regulations that up costs and pass them to you. Maybe new trade tariffs are to blame, a foreign conflict, maybe new stricter laws or maybe somewhere in your supply chain needed costly upgrades and the cost gets passed on. That’s some of it. But when you can get the same thing from right next door, or even from an animal doctor for multiple times less- no. Those aren’t the causes. Obviously medicine is cheaper where there is less regulation. It’s also less safe. But that’s not it either. Canada isn’t some WHO nightmare country. There are a lot of hands in the profit pot in US for profit healthcare, and while we have quite a bit of regulation on the manufacture and dispensing of drugs- we have very little on the business side of things. It’s very libertarian. Anyone with the billions to get parents for R&D, hire licensed and qualified staff, meet security requirements and...
... purchase equipment costing hundreds of millions of dollars and cultivate a global supply chain or the biospheres for ingredients, then pay hundreds of thousands or millions in dollars for machinery, and hundreds milliomsmorefor marketing and distribution, can easily join in and compete in the game if they think it is unfair. Oh. You’ll also need lobbyists- if your drugs aren’t covered by insurance and backed by doctors then they won’t get prescribed and used. So it’s not a monopoly or profiteering because anyone who meets those criteria can join innat will... right? That’s the difference. It’s a fundamental flaw in the legislation around the pharmaceutical industry which allows it to do so. And what are we going to do? Push them so that they can close down and watch all the people who need them to survive die and suffer? That’s not only a humanitarian nightmare...
... but political suicide. Even for a politician that doesn’t rely on their money or owe them favors, being labeled by your opponent as the person who signed the bill that killed everyone’s grandma doesn’t end well. You take the blame for everything that happens, and that usually doesn’t mean re-election even when you tell everyone it was for the “greater good.” So that’s the flaw. A system that runs on dirty money relies on dirty money. The people who own these companies are connected. Friends, relatives, golf buddies, and sometimes one in the same with the people on political power. It is not in their self interest to cut their own profits, and look at anyone doing leaps better than the majority around them and there is something going on. Prodigies are not born every day, and unless you’re surrounded by morons you’d have to be a true prodigy to produce 3000+% of the next guy. It’s crooked. It’s that simple.
I'm gonna be honest, I didn't read all of that, but I just want you to know that I appreciate all that research you just did xvarnah, and guest too for the insight
I'm also gonna be honest, @guest_ you lost me a little bit (probably not your own doing-- I'm decently overtired currently), but I'm going to clarify that I wasn't saying Canada was some Haven for pharmaceuticals, or such. It just popped up repeatedly in chats I read on the subject, and was compared repeatedly to several other countries that price similarly to the US.
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I think at the end of the day, as you say (I think), it IS simply extortion. They know people will pay that much because they have no real recourse, and for some reason these companies have been allowed to get away with this. I think in one of the articles I posted it mentions that the university of Toronto (that held the original patent for insulin) tried very hard to avoid this specific outcome, but once the patent expires there was little they could do to prevent other companies from taking the medicine and charging whatever they felt like for it.
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@edgar I hope it was at least somewhat helpful/informative :)
@xvarnah- oh no. Not at all. I’m sorry. I think you did a wonderful job and appreciate your effort and research as well. I hope my comment didn’t come off as somehow aggressive towards you. It’s a general subject that I’m passionate about because it’s an example of blatant corruption and profiteering being condoned and even assisted by the institutions sworn to the people and not to industry. My closing comment wasn’t a barb- just a statement, and I don’t think Canada is perfect either but I do think their imperfect healthcare system could be a great inspiration for reforms to our fundamentally flawed system. That health care is a perfect example that shatters the illusion of “free market capitalism” many have- a system that patients, doctors, politicians, even industry insiders agree is garbage- but the guys cashing the big checks love, so it’s the system that stays despite being despised by most. There is no option asides the type of lube you want them to use when they screw you.
@guest_ I didn't really think you were being aggressive haha. Like I said I just got a bit muddled on a couple points so I wanted to clarify at the very least the Canada/America thing since I'm not sure if I came off as being like "yo, America sucks, BUY CANADIAN DRUGS!" Especially since I still haven't verified for certain just how much of an effect having a Canadian health care card makes on the prices-- if any. Still, I know some people on the website get very unhappy about the perceived hostility to America so just in case I thought I'd elaborate a bit.
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I think you explained/expanded on what you said quite well tbh, including the bit about comparing it to veterinary medicine and such. This last comment of yours confirms what I thought you were getting at overall, and I'm glad someone with more insight on the subject was able to jump in. :)
I'm just saying, if you can't afford those special insulins, you can get Regular and N insulin for $25 a vial at WalMart. It'll keep you alive at least.
Not to mention, for people who need medicine, they NEED it or they die.
When the prices of cosmetics and other luxurious items go up, I get upset but I will live
But it's another case when it comes to medicine.
'
First one:
https://www.goodrx.com/blog/how-much-does-insulin-cost-compare-brands/
-Simply talks about a few different brands that supply insulin, as well as some of the factors that cause certain insulin to be more expensive. This does not really address the issue she brings up because she's used the same insulin with, presumably, no new features (hasn't upgraded to fast-acting or a pen etc). But I still thought it was interesting.
'
Next link takes an actual look into possible reasons how and why the price has risen so dramatically (spoiler alert: an oligarchy is involved):
https://beyondtype1.org/the-insulin-pricing-machine/
'
They don't seem to have any conclusive reasoning because, as they say, there's absolutely 0 transparency when it comes to the money in the production and distribution of insulin
'
That path, from manufacturer to patient, seems fairly direct, and it is. But the flow of money is a sordid and hidden mess.
(Cont)
'
I did see several people in my wanderings mention that this seems to be a problem caused not by the supply of insulin, but more by the location. For example, many people mentioned they'd actually crossed the border from America to Canada to purchase insulin because the price difference is so steep.
'
Again, I don't know enough about insulin, but, assuming I'm reading this right (and based on these two websites alone), it doesn't look like that's entirely incorrect:
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This first website seems to be Canadian based, and the price of 5 humalog 3ml kwik pens with 100 per unit is 68.94 (I assume canadian), which currently translates to around 52$ american
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On this other website, however, which is based in Kentucky (that IS what KY stands for, right?), the price for one box of humalog containing 5 3ml kwik pens at 100/unit is $608 american, which is roughly 807$ Canadian. Don't ask me about shipping, I didn't look into that on either website
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https://www.healthwarehouse.com/humalog-insulin-100u-ml-kwikpen-3ml-cartridge-box-of-5-cartridges-2274.html
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Bearing in mind Canada has health care, and the Canadian website does mention it may require your health care card when you order. I did briefly go to the first stage of shipping and it didn't ask me for my card number (though it could easily do so later on). But there's still the potential some of the cost of insulin is being covered under that umbrella. Otherwise it may simply be that the cost reduces if you use your card. I am uncertain how it works on this particular website. However, The website is mentioned in this chat about people trading their insulin buying experiences: https://forum.fudiabetes.org/t/purchasing-insulin-in-canada-in-person/1747/3
'
I think at the end of the day, as you say (I think), it IS simply extortion. They know people will pay that much because they have no real recourse, and for some reason these companies have been allowed to get away with this. I think in one of the articles I posted it mentions that the university of Toronto (that held the original patent for insulin) tried very hard to avoid this specific outcome, but once the patent expires there was little they could do to prevent other companies from taking the medicine and charging whatever they felt like for it.
'
@edgar I hope it was at least somewhat helpful/informative :)
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I think you explained/expanded on what you said quite well tbh, including the bit about comparing it to veterinary medicine and such. This last comment of yours confirms what I thought you were getting at overall, and I'm glad someone with more insight on the subject was able to jump in. :)