Get over it

True- but still. The analogy is apt. The criteria used to determine someone suitability for the NBA or pro sports in general is almost exclusively performance based. A question of wether or not they can perform the tasks required to the level of professionalism present in the league. A Victoria Secret model has two primary capacities. Victoria secret models must wear and display the clothing, and act as brand ambassadors to quote a 20+ year Victoria secret insider: “They must appeal to women with their personality and appearance. Women must like their look and their strength.” These are all things that larger women are capable of doing. The shortest Victoria secret model was about 5’6” to date and the oldest are in their late 40’s. So at least as far as the company claims there isn’t a “hard cut off” to not be a model- on paper anyway. In terms of performance there is no criteria by which a larger woman can’t do the job of a Victoria secret Model.

Upopular opinion: but making clothing in sizes other than 0, and having a mouth-breathing land-whale wheel her scooter down the runway are two different things. VS models are not all perfect size 0s, but they're not FAT. Today, if a company, or a tv show, or anything, doesn't cater to people who desecrate their bodies by choice, they're outlawed. I stand firmly behind VSs' decision to stand by it guns.

That’s your right. But I walk down the street and I look around me every day and what I see aren’t a lot of people who are living the VS model life of 2x or more workouts a day and everything else that goes in to looking like that. I see beautiful healthy people, many of whom are within their BMI who do not and likely never will have flat tummies or upper arms that don’t fly flags. Victoria secret is aspirational yes- but here’s a secret of mine: When you were a kid and aspired to be a dinosaur rancher you weren’t aspiring. You were dreaming. It wasn’t going to happen for you. As a mature adult, it is very unlikely that if you do not look like a VS model you ever will. It isn’t aspirational it is unrealistic. If they want to be aspirational show women an image of beauty that they can reasonably achieve. Most women will not be as primped up on their wedding day as a VS model in full body makeup with multiple handlers and spotters.

Lol, it's not unrealistic, you simply lack dedication. I'm living the lifestyle of 2 workouts a day right now. Even when I used to loudly, and often proclaim my lack of fitness (because it was true) I was in my BMI. I recognized that, while that particular state of 'unfitness' was not going to kill me, I could do better. I still may never have a flat belly- that doesn't and has never bothered me, but I'm still going to aspire to the pinnacle of excellence...
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What kind of fucked up message would you prefer to send to society? Aspire to average? Companies, sports teams, agencies, public outfits of any kind, typically aim to inspire, not validate. We like athletes because they show us what's possible. Why should the majority of young men and women NOT aim to look like models during the time of their lives when they can, because the one fat boy or girl in the back might have their feelings hurt by the ambition in the room. I was the fat boy, during high school.

I faced the accompanying bullying. I never lost sight of the fact that I was fat, and it didn't bother me because I was BIG, it bothered me because I was unhealthy. I fixed that.
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Sorry guest, you seem to speak for or want to protect the victims amongst us. I wish you the best on that quest. I have no interest in the mediocre protecting their right to be mediocre. I wouldn't want my friends to validate my lack of discipline either. I would suggest you may be doing more harm than good, in your desire to make people 'feel good'
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Let's all hide Bill Gates and Elon Musk from the world. Show children an example of success they can "reasonably achieve". Let's hide Michael Phelps, Usain Bolt, the NBA, NFL, EPL, NHL, Spanish, German and Italian leagues. Show boys role models of fit men from the 3rd - 5th leagues, so they can aspire to reasonable success. Jesus. Dreaming about being a DINOSAUR is un-fucking-realistic, but I could still end up a billionaire business magnate.

Are the standards represented by these models realistic or achievable to most?

Is being a professional athelete or an ultra successful businessman, or an international politician, or an Astronaut realistic or achievable by most?
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That’s right little Timmy, aspire to be a garbage man, that’s a nice realistic dream.
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Honestly I’m done with this particular thread. You guys are pathetic and it’s making me overly infuriated. Breaks my heart to imagine the lessons you must teach your kids.
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I will give my children the platform, the training and the inspiration they need to take this world by storm.
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Edit: @silvermyth Sorry, I didn't actually answer your question. Yes, they're achievable by virtually all. Put in some effort, eat right and see what happens. You'll be amazed! Wasn't the victimization answer you were looking for, was it?

To whoever downvoted me- sorry, this triggers me, but you do passive aggressive losers have an intelligent counter argument, or does the truth just hurt so much that you need to sit quietly in the shadows and ignore the sensibility of my argument?

But.... are you a pro athlete? A leader of industry? Can you stand toe to toe with Bill Gates or Elon Musk and look them in the eyes and say that you have achieved as much as them? Wasn’t it you early who was so adamant about knowing ones self and a sense of self? Who said that you are who you are and aren’t here to speculate on what you could become in the future? See- not everyone is going to be elite. You could work the rest of your life at whatever it is you are passionate and talented at and never be the best or even in the top 40%. That doesn’t reduce your value as a human being. It is a backwards perspective. Knowing yourself isn’t mediocrity. People have priorities and people have a certain limit that is unique to us all. Not everyone will pass selection to be an astronaut for example. But not becoming an astronaught doesn’t devalue who you are and what you have accomplished or can do. I can’t speak for you but I can’t do everything. Eventually I need sleep and rest. I get...

... stressed or overwhelmed. But I have goals. I have relationships which are most important to me. We all have budgets of time and energy and focus. So for some people- they have already passed the point where not gaining weight is already not an option. They are big. But their priorities are not aligned to losing that weight. They have other things they want to do or need to do. Studies have shown that discipline is a finite commodity. We as humans can only exercise so much. We can train to improve our discipline but some will naturally excel more than others. Thusly when a person is faced with many things through the day which require discipline to make the prudent choice- there will inevitably come a point where they fail to do so.

Now- we can argue philosophies about self determination and destiny and force of will and all that all day. In an ultimate sense we are the most accountable for our actions. However a free society- not a savage utopia of natural law where men carve out a life through their strength alone- but a functioning society of collaboration and cooperation in which men act as parts of a system which allow for a standard of living to all not otherwise possible in natural law- tolerance and diversity are requirements. You don’t have to agree with or like people’s choices- but you can’t treat them any different for those choices than you would anyone else. You can’t simply say as in natural law that the effect is the inevitable and personal consequence of a choice. You must accommodate choice and encourage it. Subsidize it so to speak. We do not live on a frontier and live or die by the gun and our wits. We live in a cybernetic system of humans who rely on each other for support.

We can eat right and take care of ourselves, but can we reach size 0 without hurting ourselves? Can we all become taller or shorter at will?

2/2 @silvermyth
The double-standards in modern feminism are SO hilariously obvious, and so incredibly stupid its actually mindboggling
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I support fat people's right to be fat, but if you make that choice, you live with it. Stop expecting special treatment in the medical system, and stop expecting people to cater to you and your dumb choices. There are literally news articles and surveys published about how fat women openly claim not to be attracted to fat men, but open call out "skinny" men for not being attracted to them, and discriminating against them...
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Stop sucking the joy out of things for people you twisted bitches. It's not jelly in your donuts.

Some people are hypocrites. This is true. But there’s nothing inherently hypocritical about a large woman saying she isn’t attracted to large men- even if she would be upset a skinnier man would call large women unattractive. The key is in understanding nuance. It is fine to not find certain things attractive. That is not the same as saying that you could never find a person attractive because of a thing. You say: “I don’t generally find blonde hair attractive and this person has blonde hair, and I am not attracted to them.” Ok. That’s fair. But not the same as saying “I would not consider dating this person because they have blonde hair.” You’ve ruled them out on one trait without learning or considering anything else about them as an individual. Worse is saying. That they themselves are unattractive because of a trait. And that is a key difference. If a large woman generally doesn’t find large men attractive or vice versa- that is their perogotive.

Very few people in relationships would honest to goodness- having never met their partner and just having a line up of every human on earth to choose from on looks alone- choose the person they are with. So it is likely that EVERY person that anyone has ever dated was not attractive to them in every way all of the time. And that’s fine. That isn’t the same as saying that they are universally unattractive by nature. That they should be ashamed to look the way they do, try to hide from public view, and just be happy they are tolerated and people don’t pelt them with tomatoes for being hideous creatures. Not everyone is attracted to VS models either, and someone who likes one VS model may not find another attractive for any number of reasons. But us personally not being attracted to something doesn’t give us the right to shame a person for it. We aren’t obligated to date of fuck them- but we likely should treat them and consider them as any other human being none the less.

The level of consideration i give a person is not based on how badly I want to have sex with them. It is based on a flat rate human standard and adjusted from there based on our interactions. That’s what MOST people speaking on behalf of the larger sized are saying. Not that you must worship them as gods- but that you should treat them as any other human being that has dignity and feelings and value to society. That whatever your feelings on weight are that you don’t project on to them and instead judge them on merit and not simply size.

1/2 That is quite literally the definition of hypocrisy... If you're fat, and you don't find fat men attractive, that's totally fair. For you to then proactively call out skinny men on discrimination against you, specifically based on your weight... THAT'S HYPOCRISY.
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And sorry, that's just not true. I am completely, 100% in no way shape or form racist. But I am simply not attracted to certain races sexually, and I'm damn well not apologizing for it. As a blanket statement, all the women in that race are "out". I have friends in that ethnicity, I have female friends in that ethnicity, but while I have female friends of other ethnicities who I am attracted to, I never find myself attracted to my female friends OF that ethnicity. If someone chose to call me out on it, that's fine, but respectfully, that's my decision and don't expect me to give a flying fuck.

2/2 If someone then said, they were not attracted to my ethnicity, I wouldn't even blink. That's totally fair. At least I'm not sitting here and calling people out on a one-way street. That's fucking bullshit, and they deserve to be shamed and shutdown for it- as I would if I was to play the double-standard.
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I had one fat female friend back in the day who was attracted to me. She was a lovely person before, and after she was attracted to me. But it wasn't going to happen, based solely on her weight. I could've even made an effort, but it wouldn't have worked, I would never have been sexually attracted to her. I was OUTCAST for being honest with her. It was annoying, but it didn't bother me then, and it doesn't bother me now.
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I recently went through a tough breakup, and gained a lot of weight. It has never bothered me that during the interim women didn't find me as attractive, while I worked my way back to fitness. Stop catering to this BS victim mentality.

Dealing in absolutes is generally going to be the first sign you are wrong about something. If most people kept a diary- myself included- of the things we said “never” to that fame true, well- as I’ve aged I have found that what I thought tended to change as you pile on decades of experience, and that few things are ever “out.” The people who went with the Donner party probably would have said they’d “never” eat another person. A few may even have said “even if I were starving.” Guess what happened...? “I’ll never cheat...” “Our marriage will be forever...” entire industries are based off of people who speak in absolutes being wrong. And guess what? Usually if you manage to stick to your personal absolutism- it’s a self fulfilling prophecy of choice and not some inherent trait...asides stubbornness maybe. That may be all well and good if you say “I’ll never do drugs” and despite the opportunity and perhaps even desire to do so you manage to stick it out and never give in. Good on you..

But it’s not so ok when we apply willful absolutism to human beings. When you say “I’ll never date a <insert race.>” “Those people are out...” That’s the distinction you miss. Most people of a given group will have cultural and physical similarities. You may find those traits unattractive. So it isn’t inherently racist to not find people in general of a certain race unattractive. That’s fine. You lienwhat you like. However- not ALL people of that race will have that trait. Or perhaps they will have other traits that you value and make you see past that one thing. So I won’t go as far as to say a blanket statement about dating a certain race is racist even if it fits the technical definition of racial discrimination- I will will say that it is ignorant to speak in absolutes about such things

Whatever these races are which you find yourself un attracted to- there is literally not a single person, not any combination of things that could ever compel you to feel an attraction to those people? You could never ever date one? They are all out by virtue of their race? That... I’m just saying that actually does sound legitimately racist to me. There were Jews and literal Nazis who fell in love or felt attraction and acting on it towards each other during and right after the Holocaust. The level of reservation it would require to rule out dating an entire race wasn’t strong enough within groups actively exterminating or being exterminated by each other to make attraction or coupling “out” when put into reality. Although if asked I’m sure they would have said it was unthinkable and that group was “out.” So you might see where I could feel you might lack the self awareness to make such a statement- unless your statement about it not being racist were not genuine, as one or the...

... other is statistically likely to be wrong with precedent galore to demonstrate the fact that human beings are not the best at absolutism unless we commit ourselves single mindedly to upholding such an oath- in which case we generally require a very strong and enduring motivation to force ourselves to keep said oath against all external factors. Simple lack of attraction would not be enough as one is or is not attracted to a person independent of minutia- especially where such minutia is an arbitrary system of classification which is a social concept and not a precise system of classification. So.... I dunnoh.... I’m going to call shenanigans on that one.

As for hypocrisy- you again seem to miss the point. Using your race example- if a black woman finds pale skin and light hair attractive, but still wants to be found attractive for who she is- is she a hypocrite? That doesn’t even make sense. If I have a PlayStation I don’t want but I want to sell it- am I a hypocrite because I wouldn’t buy my own PlayStation, or am I going to find someone who has what I want and wants what I have and offer to them what I have in exchange? A large person who doesn’t find large people attractive isn’t a hypocrite for saying you shouldn’t completely dehumanize them because of their size. It isn’t about you HAVE to find them sexy, it’s about acknowledging that they COULD be sexy. They aren’t a chair or a block of wood that has no feelings and exists as an object. They’re a human being and while they aren’t necessarily a mass media image of a magazine centerfold- neither are almost people. It’s about them having the same value as some plain Jim or Jane.

You seem to live in a world of philosophical ambiguity. You seem to want to play every angle, and see every outlook, simply because you think that's healthy. I respectfully disagree, but I don't hold your point of view against you. I just ask that you don't push it on me.
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I have, like other people organically discovered myself over time. My preferences have become set. I'm completely open to change, but I am who I am, I know what I am, and as far as sexual preference goes, the specific ethnicity I don't personally find SEXUALLY attractive is not going to change. It's just not, because I just don't.
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Personally, I'm a highly elitist person. I don't like spending time with or around mediocre performers in life. I think people should be driven, and be the best at what they do. I don't mean, at a specific career or field, but at their chosen craft. The friend of my 'elite' friends, who I respect the most, is of the ethnicity I don't find attractive. Just for perspective.

Let's start with the Jews and the Nazis. That particular example is such garbage. I'd be willing to bet (NOT knowing the statistics) that at least 40% of the German population participated in the holocaust or German war effort simply because of the rampant, violent fanaticism in Germany at the time. Based on that, it would be fair to say that 40% of the Germans had virtually no problems with the Jews would gladly have dated/married a Jew, if it wasn't an outlawed activity. There's nothing difficult to understand about Romance therefore existing during and after the holocaust.
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In regards to other things, as an example, I don't like fish. I don't eat fish, have never eaten fish, and don't enjoy fish when I do it eat it. I'm not stubborn (about that anyway) - perhaps a little trepidatious. I'm open to one day enjoying fish, but I don't now, and I don't expect that to change. Let life and time prove me wrong.
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As for the lady who doesn't find herself attractive...

That's her problem. If you haven't yet understood from my tone, I will reiterate, I know who I am. I form my own opinions. If there's someone out there who has issues with themselves, because they find something else attractive, that's their damn problem. They should seek help. Speaking for myself, I honestly don't find my own ethnicity very attractive. Seriously, objectively speaking, I don't think "my people" are very attractive. I don't even find myself attractive. It doesn't and has never bothered me, but I see other men, and I even stop to think, 'wow, that guy's good looking'. I don't think that of myself, because my preferences are different. The saving grace is that I know that there are enough women who find me attractive. I don't need to, as long as they do. I don't extract my confidence from my appearance, I don't begrudge people who do, but it's counterproductive. Looks fade, no exceptions, but I'll still be clever, cunning, resourceful, ambitious, persevering.

Etc. Etc. So, to reiterate. I don't hold it against a fat person to not find fat people attractive. But it becomes hypocritical when they call others out on discrimination against them. There was no oath, I didn't join the KKK and proclaim my attraction one ethnicity over another. I experience arousal while looking at one ethnicity, I do not while looking at the other. My opinions developed, naturally. Over time I recognized and classified them. Today I shared them, and now I'm defending them. I don't care that politically correct people would say that's technically racist- I would suggest they're obviously stupid.
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Frankly, I don't have time for this kind of discussion. I responded to you because your argument was relatively objectively made, as opposed to a typical SJW crusade. My absolutism, pertaining and applied to people is personal preference. If I had never stated it, you would never have known, and nobody would hold it against me. I shared because, I felt...

the point I made in my previous comments, was one worth making. I stand behind them, but frankly, they remain my personal choice. I'm not closed off to change or new ideas because of stubbornness, but I'm never going to be attracted to that ethnicity, and that's ok. People who disagree don't matter. I'm not thinking their thoughts for them, they will certainly not be thinking mine for me.

For the record- I didn’t down vote you. Now- I’m not an elitist but I certainly do agree that I think humans should be the best they can, and prefer the company of those who strive for more than mediocrity. However that excellence can be defined in many intangible ways- and to me, the most important form of excellence is excellence as a self aware and copious human being. As for the Nazi rebuttal- doesn’t matter if it’s 99%. 99% still breaks an absolutism. As for knowing yourself- “you” is a fluid concept as you have alluded to. When you speak for your future self you are speaking for a you who does not exist yet. We can only speak to our hopes and not to a certainty of our future selves. Therefore whenever we speak of what is in the future we are either saying what we hope shall pass, or what we hope will not pass. Unless we are just talking out our ass. So it is you- knowing the you that you are now- saying that you will not be attracted to people based off their ethnicity on the...

Future, which would either be conjecture or an aspiration. Either way one must wonder the motivations behind a certainty of this nature. Now- fort you said race, then ethnicity. They are two distinct concepts and while race is dubiously classified off appearances ethnicity is less linked to appearance as it refers to culture. So either you are confused in your wording- or are saying that persons cuktire turns you off? You are welcomed to your opinions. You may think as you like and do not need my blessing or permission to do so. However, it is also the perpgotive of others to form opinions of our character based on our actions and philosophies, regardless of our justifications. Part of being ones self and knowing ones self is admitting ones motivations. That’s as much for you to determine if you so choose as anyone else- but in abscence of a reconcilable accounting it is natural that others would fill in the blanks where a self audit fails to adequately describe ones processes.

To the original subject- again- it is not required or largely desired of you to find anyone attractive. Merely that you not reduce another human being to a stereotype even if that stereotype exists only to you personally. Case in point- to label an entire diverse group of humans as undatable or incapable of being attractive because they belong to a given group. I’ve never had homosexual relations nor had the inclination to do so. I do not plan on it. However I cannot say that I would never find another member of my sex attractive nor that I would never enjoy such relations. I would not seek to invalidate a person as being any less worthy of attraction simply because I am not attracted to them. I do not like Front wheel drive cars in general nor do I like vehicles that are appliances. I’ve owned literally more cars than I can track- 13 at once being the largest my stable ever got. 4 cars I have ever owned have had back seats, 1 front wheel drive, and yet- I wouldn’t look down...

... upon a people moving appliance simply because it didn’t command my passion or excitement. As a matter of fact the last time one of my BMW’s was hit I got a rental which was a new Toyota Corolla. I found it quite charming and have been considering buying one since as it had a character I felt was endearing even though it is far removed from the type of vehicle I would usually buy. Had I not just bought a new motorcycle for the spring and summer I would most likely have made the corolla my toy for this year. I see no isssue with other people owning such cars. Most of my coworkers drive utilitarian commuting machines or vehicles designed for efficiency and economics or comfort over an engaging experience. I do not begrudge them that or think that their vehicles are any less worthy than any of mine. Apples for apples they do many of the same things- each doing some better and some worse.

In the end- I am an inclusive person. I believe in a sense of equality between humans regardless of their station. I’m very tolerant and the thing about tolerance is that paradoxically- it can not tolerate intolerance. That is something of a truth I must admit to myself in self audit. That despite my best efforts I will very likely never be able to reconcile things to create a view which is completely tolerant because for tolerance to work- we cannot tolerate bigotry or close mindedness. We cannot allow people to exclude others or to hold prejudices and in some ways- that itself is a prejudice. But I can admit my prejudice. While it may not be truly utopian or enlightened- that is necessary in knowing ones self. To freely admit without justification what we are and what motivates us. I’m not sure wether to wish you well in your attempts to avoid dating certain ethnicities- or to wish you prove yourself wrong. Each is somewhat backhanded so I shall leave it at- good luck.

You’re right- I don’t need your permission. I was referring to race. Pardon me for not knowing the difference between race and ethnicity, as I tried to explain succinctly before this became a UN Security Council meeting- I’m not racist in the slightest. I’m sorry you can’t make up your mind and need to play every side and angle simultaneously, but I don’t have that problem. My sexual preferences are non-negotiable, and I don’t see them changing.
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I am not inclusive. If you want to be included by me, show some self respect. I do not believe people who are fat because of poor choices have that self respect. They do not have mine, beyond basic human respect that we can agree on.
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At least we both like cars. P.S. I drive s Toyota Corolla hatchback and I get undue enjoyment out of the ownership experience. I’ll be upgrading to a 911 turbo in a few years when I get rid of it

I am fully capable of making up my mind. One shouldn't confuse being open minded with being indecisive any more than confuse kindness with weakness. I’m just capable of processing more information than you are simultaneously in a given time period. That isn’t a veiled insult or intended to be a put down at all. It’s jut a fact I live with. One of my skills is an ability to see patterns from large and broad fields of data and to discern conclusions from a high level view of things. Not everyone has those skills and it isn’t a bad thing. At their desk a worker knows what is in front of them. They know it well and are certain in all things because their world is simple and focused. Each level above the view becomes broader and things become less simple and more factors must be considered. One who is content in their cubicle and with a well defined and static environment need not try to reach beyond those walls- for what lies beyond is a world of complexity and ambiguity, dynamic change.

So to each their own. However your logic is flawed as it is based agian in absolute thinking- that the overweight lack self discipline or have a self afflicted state. It denies all possibility of other external factors beyond control. When we generalize people we speak of all as one- so it is our option if we would lump them all together based on positive attributes and “benefit of the doubt” or on negatives and a self determinant philosophy. While these may be key in a survival situation, we have largely evolved to the point few people in developed society face actually survival situations often if at all. Humanities goal is to transcend such limitations. It is up to the individual if they wish to subscribe to antiquated thought processes or adopt a forward and goal oriented way of thinking.

Many moons ago- at least 20 years back- I had a 1985 Corolla GTS hatch back. It was a pathetic power plant but a ton of fun. Those were the last RWD corollas so I figured I’d never own another Corolla again. The 911 is another fun car. Well- the air cooled 911’s. The GT3 cup cars are fast but I didn’t find them fun to drive at all. Some people really like their water cooled Porsche’s though. Hope it works out for you whatever you choose. The Corolla is a fine car either way.

I am forward thinking and goal-oriented. My goal is to at least live past 60. I'm sorry if you again feel you need to make excuses for the unwell, but I will gladly, and unceremoniously burst that bubble. If you DON'T believe that the majority of obese people are that way, out of self-infliction, then I will revert to my "flawed absolutist logic" and just say you're wrong. Sorry, not sorry, but you're just wrong. People who are overweight due to medical conditions have my sympathy, and none of my disdain. The rest do not. Perhaps you should let these able-minded, if not able-bodied people stand up for themselves.
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Based on the fervor of your argument, they MUST have a logical, sound explanation for why they're 100s of lbs overweight. An explanation that doesn't come down to over-consumption of calories, and lack of exercise. They must. Right?

And yes, my Corolla is a lame FWD. I'm coming out of a 2012 Acura TL SHAWD with the torque vectored rear diff, and 306 horses. Now I have 137hp and a CVT. It's an enthusiasts nightmare, but frankly, the lack of sport tuned suspension makes the car fun in an almost dangerous way, and I enjoy it thoroughly. I also bought the last Corolla Toyota is presently making with a fully independent rear suspension. Contributes greatly to the handling dynamics, but it unfortunately doesn't help with acceleration.
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I've had the fortune, or misfortune of never driving a 911. I would love to try a purist air-cooled version, but what excites me about the Turbo is the AWD, Rear-wheel steering, 580hp, the PDK and those amazing magnetic shocks. I just pray Porsche keeps it's mechanical differentials and doesn't move over to electronic ones like everyone else.

One event: the fashion show. Watch them in real time, life on the runway, and stop making up lies to make yourself feel better. They're extremely healthy. They literally would not be able to bear up to their jobs if they weren't.
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I can 100% get behind that young girls DO unhealthy things, or take on unhealthy habits to try and imitate them, but the models themselves are on point. And they would be, they have multiple handlers, dietitians, nutritionists, personal trainers, etc.

Arguable. If you calculate BMI based off of the given stats for many VS angels and models they are “underweight.” We could argue that BMI isn’t accurate- but interestingly many who argue that you can’t be “overweight” and healthy rely on BMI to make the determination of overweight so if we stay consistent... you can also google the frequency of models passing out as well as the prep routinesfor shows and shoots and some of the other “trucks of the trade” used. As someone who has modeled and dated models, and has been involved in the finiteness industry and done shoots- I can tel you that even many fitness models aren’t near as “healthy” as their looks, lifestyle, and diet would suggest. You can also google the frequency at which such models suffer health issues or death at a young age- mind you I am speaking on general there and not specific to VS. However the point stands that one can’t simply use anecdotal evodence or look at someone and say they are or aren’t healthy- especially...

... in an industry where millions of dollars and your career largely rely on you LOOKING healthy and where tricks, makeup, cuts, etc. have been developed and used specifically to build an image and illusion that tricks the basic sensesninto believing what they want you to see. Wether they are or are not healthy though you say yourself that they require nutritionists, trainers, and schedules that are not realistic for most people. I’ve worked with people who just literally couldn’t fit their goals into their schedule. We improved their looos slightly, and their health greatly, most untrained people in their age and demographic wouldnt perform to their standards, but just looking at them you’d think they weren’t in very good shape. It’s just the way it is. Give me a year and I can make most anyone look the best they ever have- big and cut. But.... not functionally strong or capable as much as if we had focused on performance instead of looks. The guy who can lift more and go longer...

... and is healthier may look more like a “dad bod” than the Terminator- but all his blood work will be clean and his check up will be good (genetics and previous lifestyle permitting,) but without PED I coukd make you look like you can do way more than you can, and with PED one coukd look amazing and do amazing things but have the health of someone 20 years older than they are.