I'm not arguing for male privilege, however all statistics require context.
'
More men have died in battle, historically, because more men have been allowed and called to battle. They are also more likely to sign up willingly. I imagine if the statistic becomes "became enslaved sexually by the enemy" the statistic would flip at an alarming rate.
'
More men do commit suicide, but this does not mean women are not also depressed and contemplating or engaging in harmful behaviour.
'
Men are also statistically more likely to perpetrate violent crimes (and sexual crimes) than women
'
More women graduate colleges, but I guarantee more men study and get work in trades-- which doesn't pay poorly, but probably does contribute more to workplace death. Like it or not a construction worker is more likely to be in a hazardous environment than a secretary. This applies whichever gender fills the roles, but men are more likely to be construction workers, etc, and by extension we end up with statistics like that
'
I could continue but if you don't see the point by now it is quite likely you won't in the future. Context is important
I've seen plenty of posts of women asking for more equality in technology and science and ceos etc but have never seen a more equality in "construction, etc" jobs. It's almost like the more dangerous are ok to be majority male
I'm not sure what your point is. I've seen any women that choose to work in construction ask for equality, as they should. And men that work in more female-oriented professions want equality as well, and should receive it.
'
However, you can't penalize women in one profession because they don't want to work in another. If men aren't scrambling over one another to be sewer workers that doesn't mean we should disable their attempts to get into law school. Or, if men don't want to work as cosmeticians, that doesn't mean someone should penalize them if they do want to work in child card-- which are both female dominated industries.
'
Men are more willing to work in construction and in dangerous professions in general than women. That's not something you can hold women accountable for. Men are also often more likely to look down on or be bored with secretarial duties and such-- which are also roles that typically earn less money than more physical or dangerous jobs
If both men and women showed equal resistance to those types of jobs then it would be up to the employer to provide an incentive to entice one or the other to work in the field more.
▼
deleted
· 5 years ago
-more men have died in battle and that's why feminists dont want women to be legally required to be drafted in wartime (irrelevant but related)
-more men commit suicide by such a gigantic margin that it's not a valid point to say "but oh women commit suicide as well". By that logic I could say that 'men are more likely to commit violent crimes, but women do also!' as if that totally counters the discrepancy.
-men are more likely to commit violent crimes, but they are more likely to be the *victims* of those crimes as well. Some 60% of all violent crimes have men as their victims, even counting "sexual" violent crimes.
There are so many studies and papers published and sources on this that a quick google search can prove this.
https://www.bjs.gov/index.cfm?ty=tp&tid=955
Men are the victim more often than women of *every single other violent crime besides sexual assault*. Just cherry-picking sexual assault is dishonest. I'm deleting my account now holy shit this fucking website...
I don't even know who you are, but if you'd actually bothered reading all the comment chains I and guest_ already addressed the reason why men DIE more often from suicide. Women ATTEMPT suicide with almost as much frequency.
'
Also if I recall around 90% of violent crimes are committed by men. 90% of suicides are not attempted by men. That comparison is so horrendously skewed it serves no actual purpose.
'
And, seeing that men are the ones perpetrating the violent crimes most often in the first place, I literally don't understand what the point of saying "they're also the victims!" Makes. This indicates the behavioural changes necessary still largely fall on the side of the men. You cannot use males being a victim of males as sound reasoning for saying males are at a disadvantage. It should also be noticed that several victims of crime fall victim while perpetrating crimes themselves. This does not negate the fact that they are victims of a crime, but perpetrating a crime,
Particularly of a violent or high-risk nature (which men are more likely to do) statistically will increase the odds that you will also end up in the crosshair of other criminal behaviour.
'
If cherry-picking offends you so very much I'm surprised it's a behaviour you yourself so willingly engage in.
'
Either way, hopefully getting that off your chest along with the dramatics made you feel a little better about yourself. Good luck wherever you choose to haunt in the future
Now, lets see the statistics on domestic abuse, sexual assault, sexual harassment (in and out of the workplace), discrimination in the workplace, and for shiggles, childbirth mortality.
Also some studies have shown domestic abuse is more even then percieved because men are more ashamed to admit being abused and if a man defends himself and happens to leave a bruise the woman will be believed and the man will be charged
It's my understanding that the amount of aggression and abuse in relationships (if we're including verbal, mental, emotional, and minor physical) is actually pretty well even, however men do tend to cause more physical damage when they abuse, and women tend to experience fear to a much greater extent in their relationships
I should have specified deaths by domestic abuse, as well. Its almost impossible to get an accurate statistic on abuse as a whole because A) like you mentioned there is more than just physical and B) men are historically WAY less likely to admit to abuse or be believed
These are cherry picked. I imagine that if you looked at an absolutely massive spectrum of datasets, you would find it's about even in terms of good and bad
You're definitely happier that way, but just know there are more than enough women on there willing to tell you all about how much the rest of the world is to blame for every single one of their problems
Some of this was said by Xvarnah- but... women generally weren’t allowed in combat... by men. You can’t forbid someone from doing something and call that a privilege. That’s like saying convicts are privelaged because they don’t have to sit in meetings with accounting, or that a poor person is privelaged because they dont have to make a choice on where they should build their summer house. Homelessness- context. Without knowing if there might be an actual reason why more men end up homeless- we can’t really call that a privelage. Suicides- women are at higher risk to attempt or report contemplating suicide. Men are at higher risk of succeeding in suicide. Again- not privelage. In fact it’s believed to be the opposite- that by being conditioned to be more demure- women are less ambitious in suicide than men. An example of male privelage. Work place deaths: again. Context. Fewer women work “dangerous” jobs, and were long forbidden to work many or excluded. Women also tend to use PPE...
... and follow instructions and safety processes. This is believed to be due to cultural ideas of masculinity... created by men. So again- not female privelage when men decide what makes a man a man. You can’t blame women because few of any women have ever said: “I think it’s sexy when someone doesn’t read directions and doesn’t use a guard on a table saw...” So that’s men trying to impress men. Homicide- really? Men are more likely to be victims but also perpetrators. Figure this out. It goes with work place accidents. It isn’t a female privelage that men decide to do stupid shit more often. And agin- if anything it’s another example where females are conditioned to be passive victims and not to be aggressive. College is another context heavy one. Only 17.6% of women from low socioeconomic backgrounds who graduate high school will get a bachelors degree. So when you compare men and women graduating college you have to factor in that more than gender plays a role here- and that it’s..
... 60% of TOTAL women attending vs TOTAL amen attending who graduate- not the total number that gets the opportunity to go. It’s also important to note that the population is generally skewed towards female withmales generally making about 48% of total population. I don’t have time to explain math to OP- but this list in general confuses opportunity with results. Where equal opportunity exists to try, if the results are not equal there may just be differences in the people I vibed- or some may have an advantage- privelage. Women aren’t graduating college because they’re women- they are graduating because they don’t want to work shitty low wage jobs or so high paying manual labor which they are often mechanically disadvantaged at by genetics. So I mean... really...
Tl:dr- this list is crap. It lacks context, most of the things on it are actually examples of historical and ongoing repression of women and not female privelage. Except the family court one. Family courts favor women. That’s not bogus- but they favor women because why? Men created a gender dynamic where women were seen as inferior, in need of protection, and as care givers for children and homes and little more. You can’t call systematic male bias a female privelage you twazzer.
Added note-- I'm pretty sure the whole reason men are more likely to be more successful at suicide is often also because of their preferred methods.
'
Women, statistically, often want to avoid doing two things when they attempt suicide:
-They want to avoid leaving a mess or a disturbing scene behind for whoever finds them
-They want to avoid looking like a mess for when they're buried
'
Men are far less likely to care about this at all, and far more likely to go for more extreme/aggressive methods.
'
This means women are more likely to attempt suicide methods such as poison which are easier to counteract. So, as @guest_ said, it's not that they're not trying, they just often go about it differently, and don't succeed as often.
'
I'm not going to go into more detail than that, because no one needs tips on this subject, just once again: statistics like this can't be presented as a stand-alone.
Lol. Thank you @Xvarnah. I’m glad you got a kick out of it. And kudos on the explaination of suicide discrepancy. I couldn’t think on the fly of a way to describe the differences without, as you aptly say, giving accidental tips. I commend you for being able to get the precision without the details.
I like how we just tag-team each others comments
'
Tbh I think you covered it pretty well (and then some, and you also expanded on some of the other issues with more clarity so kudos).
'
But there's always some "twazzer" or just someone who is genuinely unsure who wants to come and argue the point even further-- as if not succeeding at suicide invalidatessomeone's entire experience down that path. it's a difficult issue. I've had a story or a fact or two I've considered telling and then realized "withholding this information could LITERALLY save someone's life..."
'
It's hard finding the middle ground sometimes
Haha I feel like the Harry Potter chain may not have fallen into that category on my end. I wanted to apologize if I came across as rude at any point in that chain BTW. I don't think what you said was necessarily invalid, but also not necessarily the viewpoint I share. I don't even know if I DID come across as curt, but just in case I'm using my Canadian citizenship to get out in front of it and apologize before I even know if there's a problem
Lmao. Thank you for airing that out. I too wanted to apologize but wasn’t sure if I should bring it up. I’m sorry if I cake off as impolite or like I was trying to impose my views on others. I know I can be quite wordy as well- and I also didn’t realize at one point near your exit you were still typing so I interrupted your string. I enjoyed the discussion even if we have different views. My overall stance on most things isn’t that we all must agree- but to oppose views which would deny or invalidate others views. You are not guilty of that in any way and any “passion” in my posts is directed at the subject in general and not you. Our exchange left me with no negative views or feelings towards you.
Haha I don't think you have anything to apologize for either. Like I said-- I know it's a run down joke, and I can certainly see how it would get sour to people when it's constantly dredged up so it's not like I don't get where your initial comment was coming from anyway. Not to say you were being sour, but you know what I mean. Either way I'm glad we both are still seeing eye to eye over our inability to see eye to eye on the subject x) I enjoy our exchanges too so last thing I wanted to do was to leave it up in the air
Also as a side note - I was literally sitting here refreshing the page every 15 minutes or so waiting until I thought you might be done before posting earlier x) so Don't feel bad about interrupting me-- I came very close to doing that to you today
Working in a male-dominated job. Women working in occupations where they are a small minority, particularly in very physical environments (Willness, Steel, and Lee 2007) or environments focused on traditionally male-oriented tasks (Fitzgerald et al. 1997), may also be especially vulnerable to harassment and assault. In a survey from the early 1990s, close to six in ten women working in construction report being touched or asked for sex (LeBreton and Loevy 1992). In another study from 2013, three in ten women construction workers report experiencing sexual harassment daily or frequently, with similar numbers reporting harassment based on sexual orientation, race, or age (Hegewisch and O’Farrell 2015).
https://iwpr.org/publications/sexual-harassment-work-cost/
I love being harassed DAILY while just working in my male dominated/male accommodated job. The amount of times I've been grabbed/groped/propositioned for sex while in uniform is alarming.
'
More men have died in battle, historically, because more men have been allowed and called to battle. They are also more likely to sign up willingly. I imagine if the statistic becomes "became enslaved sexually by the enemy" the statistic would flip at an alarming rate.
'
More men do commit suicide, but this does not mean women are not also depressed and contemplating or engaging in harmful behaviour.
'
Men are also statistically more likely to perpetrate violent crimes (and sexual crimes) than women
'
'
I could continue but if you don't see the point by now it is quite likely you won't in the future. Context is important
'
However, you can't penalize women in one profession because they don't want to work in another. If men aren't scrambling over one another to be sewer workers that doesn't mean we should disable their attempts to get into law school. Or, if men don't want to work as cosmeticians, that doesn't mean someone should penalize them if they do want to work in child card-- which are both female dominated industries.
'
Men are more willing to work in construction and in dangerous professions in general than women. That's not something you can hold women accountable for. Men are also often more likely to look down on or be bored with secretarial duties and such-- which are also roles that typically earn less money than more physical or dangerous jobs
-more men commit suicide by such a gigantic margin that it's not a valid point to say "but oh women commit suicide as well". By that logic I could say that 'men are more likely to commit violent crimes, but women do also!' as if that totally counters the discrepancy.
-men are more likely to commit violent crimes, but they are more likely to be the *victims* of those crimes as well. Some 60% of all violent crimes have men as their victims, even counting "sexual" violent crimes.
There are so many studies and papers published and sources on this that a quick google search can prove this.
https://www.bjs.gov/index.cfm?ty=tp&tid=955
Men are the victim more often than women of *every single other violent crime besides sexual assault*. Just cherry-picking sexual assault is dishonest. I'm deleting my account now holy shit this fucking website...
'
Also if I recall around 90% of violent crimes are committed by men. 90% of suicides are not attempted by men. That comparison is so horrendously skewed it serves no actual purpose.
'
And, seeing that men are the ones perpetrating the violent crimes most often in the first place, I literally don't understand what the point of saying "they're also the victims!" Makes. This indicates the behavioural changes necessary still largely fall on the side of the men. You cannot use males being a victim of males as sound reasoning for saying males are at a disadvantage. It should also be noticed that several victims of crime fall victim while perpetrating crimes themselves. This does not negate the fact that they are victims of a crime, but perpetrating a crime,
'
If cherry-picking offends you so very much I'm surprised it's a behaviour you yourself so willingly engage in.
'
Either way, hopefully getting that off your chest along with the dramatics made you feel a little better about yourself. Good luck wherever you choose to haunt in the future
men 7%
women 93%
killed by intimate partner
men 11%
women 89%
whining online
men 100%
'
Women, statistically, often want to avoid doing two things when they attempt suicide:
-They want to avoid leaving a mess or a disturbing scene behind for whoever finds them
-They want to avoid looking like a mess for when they're buried
'
Men are far less likely to care about this at all, and far more likely to go for more extreme/aggressive methods.
'
This means women are more likely to attempt suicide methods such as poison which are easier to counteract. So, as @guest_ said, it's not that they're not trying, they just often go about it differently, and don't succeed as often.
'
I'm not going to go into more detail than that, because no one needs tips on this subject, just once again: statistics like this can't be presented as a stand-alone.
'
Tbh I think you covered it pretty well (and then some, and you also expanded on some of the other issues with more clarity so kudos).
'
But there's always some "twazzer" or just someone who is genuinely unsure who wants to come and argue the point even further-- as if not succeeding at suicide invalidatessomeone's entire experience down that path. it's a difficult issue. I've had a story or a fact or two I've considered telling and then realized "withholding this information could LITERALLY save someone's life..."
'
It's hard finding the middle ground sometimes
I love being harassed DAILY while just working in my male dominated/male accommodated job. The amount of times I've been grabbed/groped/propositioned for sex while in uniform is alarming.