Personally, I believe traitors should be subject to harsher punishment than enemy soldiers. They choose to go over, knowing what they are capable and what it means, while often enemy combatants and supporters aren't fully aware or they simply aren't given a choice
At the age of 19, a young woman from Hoover, Alabama traveled to Syria to join ISIS -- the so-called "Islamic State."
Five years and three husbands later, she says she regrets what she did and is begging to return to the US.
This woman is Shamima Begum. She left the UK to go marry and raise a family in ISIS territory with an ISIS member. Her and others like her are often called “Isis” brides and are topic of recent debate lately. The “Isis brides” mostly come from nations with hostilities with Isis. They are now seeking to return to their countries of origin but having renounced citizenship to join an “enemy of the state” many do not want to allow them to return. “He” is Sajid Javid- Britain’s Home Secretary who believes that the “Isis brides” represent a threat to his nation and shouldn’t be allowed to return. This is part of an interview where she states she is not a threat, and believes there is no reason to believe she is a threat- except the fact she was a member of a radical Islamic terror organization which has plotted and carried out attacks against the U.K.
@honeybumblebee is talking about a separate woman, who is basically doing the same thing. Now that she realizes she's on the loosing side she wants to change her mind and cone home. Too damn bad. Bitches made their choices, they have to face the consequences. I don't care if they were 15, at 15 you know what is right and wrong in those extremes. I'm all for letting their families take in their children, since that's one excuse they are using for seeking asylum, but they are traitors who knowingly sided with terrorists, let them deal with the price themselves. Their home countries owe them jack.
I don’t know why you got downvoted. My only recommendation might be to tag the comment you are replying to. There are a few so called “Isis brides” in the media lately- this young woman as you say is not from Alabama but from the U.K. I was writing my original post when the posts above were submitted so didn’t see them until now or would have cleared that up better as well.
My apologies for the confusion as @guest_ has mention there is a trend of these nimrod's trying to get back from where they left. They don't deserve to come back. They have made their decision, now they must face their consequences.
I’m gonna skip any debate about these women themselves and just say this- most of the modern world was founded on treason. America is certainly a blanket of it. A good deal of the south was involved in treason at one point, and many are still proud of that treason today. So there has to be some debate- not just to prevent McCarthy esque abuse of power and patriotism, or Soviet/Nazi style nationalism- but for the simple fact that most countries have set a precedent that treason of ideals or even sometimes acting in anger against your own nation is not always by default a capital crime- history books are full of people who committed treason and went on to serve or live well under the same flag they rebelled against.
To be clear I’m not advocating these women should be allowed back in or shouldn’t be tried for treason- I’m merely saying that not only does each person need to have their specific circumstances reviewed, but it isn’t just important to these women but to civics that we allow and participate in educated and even debate to the matter in general and as it pertains to each woman’s case.
I think any children involved should be offered sanctuary with their families, but the women made their choices, let them face the consequences where they are
I don't disagree with you @guest_ - but I do not think these ISIS brides are an example of the treason to which you refer. Southerners were fighting for States' rights, the War of Independence was to reject unfair taxation and all the other inequalities suffered by the colonies. These are fights based on ration, fairness and logic (of course passion/patriotism too but that is nothing without rationality). Shamima and her ilk actively sought out a group who intends to put a caliphate in place, with full Sharia law and the horrors it entails. There is no rationality in such a decision. I certainly pity those who were brainwashed and wound up in a dreadful situation, but Shamima at least is not in that category.
It’s certainly a noble idea not to visit the sins of the parent onto the child. It’s not however without its pit falls. You wind up with a kid with no biological parents- an orphan by the state. That itself can be rife with problems and risks. You then either have to erase their lineage and obscure it from them, tell them but ban contact, or allow them to reach out to their biological parents when they get older- which then carries risks as well. So you end up with a citizen with questionable loyalties and strong potential motivation for resentment against the state. But... potential or possible motive to crime isn’t the same as having demonstrated one would commit a crime- so it may be as “fair” and “generous” a deal as one could salvage from what is a mess like this.
A lot of the women have family in the country they are trying to return to, and many of them have shown willingness to help where the children are concerned so they would have biological family, just not terrorists, and wouldn't be wards of the state
@snowbeast- the argument of treason in the south is somewhat moot. By definition the actions of the south in the civil war were treason- any noble intentions of resisting any injustices does not change if something is treason. Benedict Arnold was screwed over and mad, the US committed treason against GB, and Brown was hung for treason for the Slave revolt at Harpers Ferry regardless of the nobility one might see in those actions. A patriot of one nation or organization is the enemy of another when they are at war. If you win it’s treason against a government that has no power against you any longer. If you lose and remain a citizen it is treason against your own government.... cont
... like wise in viewing the Confederacy- Isis and the Taliban have some noble ideas too. They aren’t great guys, but they do face less than stellar governments rife with corruption and other failings, and many are tired of being economically exploited or blown up by foreign countries because they live in a war zone. The horrors of these extremists outweigh that nobility much the same as the practices and realities of slavery were a far greater horror to human kind than unfair taxes and unbalanced democracy. So much like we can say Stalin or Che Guevara had a “few good points” or “thought they were doing right,” it doesn’t erase the rest or change the definition of what they were. Mao is a hero to many- but I wouldn’t paint him as a good guy.
The youngest person ever executed for treason was 14, and 70 years later a judge erased the conviction as wrong. 30 people have been found guilty of treason in the history of the United States. None since WW2- including a man who went and fought for the Taliban. So my personal feelings asides- it’s very hard for me to look at the precedent and see a solid case for a trial of treason- and REALLY hard to see a sentence of death or equivalent in this case. But that’s the US. This lady is from the U.K.
You are taking states seeking to declare independence (something that was technically within their rights) from a national they felt was infringing on their rights (while slavery WAS a big part of it there was also issues with lack of representation and laws passing without any input from the people. Regardless of the morality of those laws, it was a slap in the face and technically unconstitutional. And you are comparing that with terrorists who seek to wipeout anyone and everyone who refuses to conform with their extremist views, including slaughtering women and children by the dozens and routinely attacking civilian populations including schools and churches for mass casualties. Seriously, get a grip.
@celticrose- I’m sorry. For the latter part of that were you describing Isis, or American history? I’m confused. But in all seriousness- we can copy paste what you just said and change the names all over and things still work. As a matter of fact many terrorist organizations got their start and hold a core belief that they are opposing both unfair treatment and illegitimate governments. The thing that separates a terrorist act from an act of war is wether the flag they fly is recognized or not.
But don’t get your panties in a knot. I’m not saying Isis and America or Isis and the confederacy are the same. Don’t get hung up on labels. Your 90% fat ground beef is sugar free and your gummy bears are fat free but in principal both are healthy in excess. The point is that you can’t give one group a free pass for doing what they think needs done to protect themselves and preserve their way of life, and for rebelling against legitimate government- and then throw the book at another for the same thing.
I didn’t realize there were so many supporters of the confederacy here- although some of the posts I read on here should have given it away. Look- plenty of good and decent folk flee the confederate flag and plenty of assholes flew under the union. You can’t lump everyone under one banner into one garbage fire or nominate them all for sainthood. That’s my point. We can’t condemn a person too easily.
Wow, I forget how condescending you can be, not to mention your proclivity to distort a comment. I clearly stated the Confederacy's ideals were immortal and misguided, but they were legal. Just because you disagree with something doesn't make it wrong. And do tell me when, in modern times, America has routinely used suicide bombers and carbombs to attack churches, schools and other civilian complexes and then bragged about it. Again, get a grip on reality and grow up.
I’m very sorry you feel condescended to. Is it my manner of writing, or the vocabulary I use? Either way- I’ll try to be less “high concept” and stick to nuts and bolts. While the legitimacy of cession pre civil war is a subject of scholarly debate- there is no aspect of law which gives any state government the right to dissolve the federal government and the union of states. There is also no clause for armed rebellion. The south didn’t go into congress and through democratic process succeed. They didn’t even simply say “peace out” and wait for the north’s response. American citizens carried out a military attack on fort Sumter and the government responded to a terrorist act in the interest of its people- and thus the war began. The “war of northern aggression” is a monomer. There wasn’t a war until the south fired the first shots. Before that it was the “bureaucracy of northern oppression” of anything....
... it was the “bureaucracy of northern oppression” until southerners took up arms against their government and fired the first shots. Legal experts have repeatedly ruled the action illegal and the confederacy as illegitimate such as Texas v. White in 1869) and (Shortridge et. al. v. Macon in 1867). What do you call it when a frustrated group of citizens decide they have a better way to run the government and don’t feel they have power in the government so they take up arms and attack their own country? That’s terrorism. If you win you might become the great heroes who overthrew a corrupt system- but if you lose you are terrorists. If Isis or the Taliban win and gain legitimacy they become a country defending itself. Until then they are rogue terrorists.
America doesn’t need to use suicide bombers. You do realize the suicide bomber is the low cost low tech version of guided bombs, autonomous missiles and the like right? We use suicide robots and aircraft so that we can kill people without having to die doing it. Maybe you’re too young to remember the second gulf war even? The footage of us shelling Baghdad. YouTube it. A major civilian city lit up like a movie by heavy weapons fire. Have you ever heard of “collateral damage?” ISIS and the like are bad guys. But why so many average people join groups like that isn’t simply because they are evil and don’t like women. You do know that much of the Middle East has seen American weapons cause “collateral damage” that has personally impacted them and those people then want revenge against the guys who pushed a button and blew up their homes or families?
You are speaking about terrorists as if they simply exist out of some evil or native hate of democracy. You mention not letting ones feelings influence them- yet you say things to defend the actions of the south because while reprehensible they saw it as the only option against unfair actions- what do you think terrorism is? People who have power don’t need to pick up guns- they pick up a phone and make it happen. So just because you want to subscribe to a revisionist history or some “Robin Hood” complex doesn’t mean you should reduce everything to “good” and “bad.” The US does good and it does bad. The Confederacy, the Taliban- all these groups are made of people who think they’re doing the right thing and are willing to go to extremes to make sure they are the ones writing the rules and the history. So please take your own advice- grow up and while doing so please read. Or read more.
Five years and three husbands later, she says she regrets what she did and is begging to return to the US.
Take her out behind closed doors and dump the body in the Atlantic.