I could MAYBE excuse not being aware of the history between Greenland and Denmark and how that would make asking them to sell Greenland more than insensitive. As a world leader visiting a close NATO ally... or just a knowledgeable statesman... I’d hope he’d know. But... let’s say everyone has their weak points. Ok. Let’s forgive not knowing the history. Well... there isn’t an excuse AT ALL for a diplomat not knowing that Greenland is its own freaking country. It... it hurts to think about.
Besides that, he obviously has no clue about scandinavian stubborness.
You're postponing your visit? Wow. Let us check our viking genes, maybe they'll allow us to crumble and cry.
Lmao. Yes. Denmark has a looong history. They have the oldest continuous use flag in the world, a good economy, low debt, good social services, great friends like Germany, Norway, and Sweden... If one contentious US president who isn’t particularly known for being a good guest to foreign nations postpones or cancels a trip- Denmark I am sure will be more than ok. It is disappointing since it basically means diplomatic business needs to wait- but the tone set by the POTUS makes it seem the visit wouldn’t be particularly productive to begin with. The disrespect shown to the Danes is however embarrassing as a nation for many Americans and hopefully won’t reflect too badly on our country or future relations.
Let's just hope he won't get second term.
All of Europe is hoping to get their formerly very reliable partners from overseas back. Unfortunately we are lacking the sort of humour you need to work with people like him, so yeah, for the sake of future relations, please get rid of him ;)
The marvelous thing about that slogan is that we can all embrace it. I think all of us here agree that we hope EVERYONE votes in 2020 to make America great again. It’s just.... for some that means voting for almost anyone but Donald Trump so that we can make America as great as it was before he was elected. But... politics asides... even presidents born before women could vote knew better than to make an ass of themselves with foreign heads of state. The president had more decorum dealing with surrendering Nazis than the current one shows for allies. That is sad.
He doesn't bow to foreign kings, he's not sending billions to terrorists, and he's actually winning wars and bringing my brothers home.
The euroes want someone predictable, someone they can shame, embarrass, and who will fork over blood and money whenever they ring their little bell. Fuck 'em.
Not gonna argue politics. But some finer points- it’s all well and good if a person wants to not “bow” to the will of others, if they refuse to do what others want for the greater good of their own people. But... you can still do that while having manners, dignity, class, diplomacy, or not being a dick.
If my neighbor sees me mowing the lawn and says “hey- since your mower is out can I borrow it...” I don’t have to let them, but there’s also no reason to say “your House is a shithole Jerry and your wife is an ogre. Now sell me your boat for cheap.” Then perhaps walk away smugly with toilet paper on your foot, and not realize your neighbors name is Jeffrey, he is gay and unmarried, and your neighbor Jerry is the one with the boat but it’s his brothers and he borrows it.
We can debate what if any good or harm he may or may not have or be doing- but what is inconsequential is his capacity for good compared to his manners or composure. That is to say: none of his supposed goods rely upon being a goof ball, disrespectful, or thoughtless. Whatever he has done of a practical nature he could achieve without being a clown. It is of course his choice- but that is my point. We all have the choice and what we choose when it comes to our treatment of others says a lot about our character.
If my lawyer wins my case, I don't care if he shits on the judge's desk.
If a mechanic fixes my car, I don't care if he knocks over mailboxes in his free time.
If a guy huffs glue, I'm always going to prefer him over people who want me disarmed, my paycheck reduced, my father punished for being born the wrong color, and wants to send me and my brothers to fight forever wars while hamstrung.
I don't care about demonstrating "character". A strong, prosperous, sovereign nation that our enemies don't want to fuck with is more than enough for me, far more than I was expecting, and exactly the course my CIC put us on.
If your lawyer shits on the judges desk the judge will care. The judge may we’ll take it out on both you, but at least him. There is a time and place for results at any cost, and a time otherwise. When you act like a sack of shit bully that doesn’t make people not want to mess with you. That makes it all the more likely that if they ever get the chance they will pay you back. There is a reason that so many in the military have troubles in civilian life. The military teaches many things you can apply to civilian life as positives- but if you treat every interaction like you’re on the beach head life will chew you up.
It makes me even sadder that a military man in this day in age would say they do not care about character. Character is the backbone of every branch of the armed forces. Character, discipline, these are why separate our military from a pack of thugs with guns. Do you think your dress uniform is the height of battle performance? It is symbolic of the civilization and character that are central to the armed forces.
And yes- when the stakes are high enough then one must sacrifice dignity, honor, anything that need be sacrificed for results. That is called survival. But far too many like yourself aren’t willing to wait to actually face such dire odds. You would be happy for any excuse to treat such a situation as life or death. There are people who stop problems and people who create problems. Some people like when there are problems just so they can prove themselves- to others, to themselves.
Anyone can act like an asshole. Anyone can be an animal and shit on a fucking desk. Are you an animal? If your unit deploys are you more likely to be holding the leash, or lined up with the working dogs on a leash? It doesn’t make a person big- and only the hugest idiots are fooled when a tiny fish puffs itself up. Most people learn in high school what bluster looks like. Most people learn that the tough talkers and assholes are full of shit. The only people it fools are the types of people you’d have to be weak to need to fool.
So hey- it’s your call. We all get to decide. In the real world results tend to matter more than methods. But not always, and perhaps more importantly to a practical minded person: winning some stupid pointless battles short term to cost or protract future efforts isn’t really a win. It’s called tactics. It’s why most E1 and E2 don’t generally command shit except a mop and bucket.
Perhaps I misspoke. I do care about character, but everything is secondary to the mission. The prosperity of the United States, the liberty and sovereignty of my people, and above all the support and defense of the Constitution of the United States.
Give me a candidate who shares that mission and is a good person, and I will support them wholeheartedly. Force me choose between one or the other, and I choose the mission.
Give me one man with the mission in mind being opposed by a mob with neither the mission or the character, and it ain't even a fucking question.
Trump's predecessor was a warmonger too cowardly to dedicate to the fight, a Great Dividor who had no qualms attacking the people's inherent rights.
His rival was corrupt murderer who promised us more of the same, but worse. Now the whole damn world has lost it's mind. Begging for endless "police actions", declaring my elected leader a fascist and then calling for statist authoritarianism in the same breath,
Socialists roam the streets with the intent of attacking those with the audacity to dissent, and the goddamned police are ordered to treat them with kid gloves!
We have surpassed the Godzilla threshold, and though things are improving in spite of the authoritarian's best efforts, we have no viable alternatives to Charlie Mike but to stay course.
Let's put it like this, while learning to clear houses we learned to shoot the dog, drop anyone who shows the slightest hint of resistance, and hold no bars in the face of dedicated resistance. That means kill the males, kill the women, and kill the children if they do anything but exactly the right thing. We are not nice, we are not civil, we are not soft-spoken, and we love our jobs, even if we hate everything in between.
I don't know what your image of the military is, but we're itching to do our fucking jobs. Kill the enemy and break their shit. Or, if you prefer "engage and destroy the enemies of the United States".
You can't shame me.
And don't even pretend your goal was anything else.
I rucked my twelve miles, I slept with my gun, I became damn good at my craft in conditions I know most everyone else would never endure. I love the misery, I thrive under duress, I live when I bleed. I'm out in the rain, in the snow, in the heat. Filthy, tired, literally crawling through piss and mud. All for the promise that maybe, one day, the enemy will be at the gate, and I'll get the privilege of helping some poor stupid son of a bitch die for his beliefs.
You feel what you feel. If you aren’t ashamed, how would I shame you? I said I was disappointed- if my disappointment shames you- that’s your reaction to my feelings, not my feelings. I am slightly less disappointed after reading your explanation that you misspoke. We do have an understanding that what we are talking about is specifically when it comes to achieving a goal- but... there’s still a couple problems I see there.
1. Why did we send a team of men to kill Osama? Why- if we knew where he was, did we not just destroy the building from afar? Why when we know a terrorist is on a train do we not just spray the train with bullets and let god sort it out? If you have a CHOICE and your choice is is to go for the extreme option- you’re a sociopath. If you can communicate strength and independence and still be courteous and diplomatic, and no greater purpose is served by not being such- your CHOICE defines your character.
2. A bit of point 1. There’s ALWAYS a mission young padawan. The mission- never ends. Today’s mission is the makings of tomorrow’s mission. You stop the Russians and then your kids get to stop the Taliban and then their kids get to... and so on. Now- there is always a time for brute force shock and awe. It works. When and where it works.
But- that’s not how you keep the people safe, that’s not how you keep soldiers safe. That’s not how you keep it so that you can support your soldiers. I do not know how much you know about tactics beyond individual or small unit coordination. But- the less people you have to fight at once and the less fronts you are engaged on- the better things tend to go
Now- when we send our troops far away from home they need things. Materiel, air support, intelligence. We have military bases all over the world. We have air bases our allies let us use. This is part of what is called “supply chain logistics.” It wins and loses wars.
Say that we engage with China or Russia? They are very far away. We can’t drive tanks and armor to the front. We need boats and planes. Those boats and planes need ports and airstrips, fuel and maintenance. We can bully other countries into doing it- but at some point we risk facing armed resistance from them- sabotage wether we win or lose. Sabotage didn’t do a lot to help the axis. When your soldiers lives depend on people who hate you... that’s bad for soldiers.
Win lose or draw- a fight against those who’s bases we need to secure said bases draws down combat effectiveness for the main fight. It also tends to make the neighbors nervous when you annex their backyard. Then these people start to perhaps see your enemy as a good ally- someone to help keep you from doing the same to them.
You create more enemies to fight at once or later. You turn allies or neutral parties into hostile or unfriendlies. Sooner or later- you run out of Tripp’s and neat toys.
Diplomacy serves a few vital functions. It helps prevent our troops from having to fight and die over things that could be talked out. It secured safe harbor, staging areas, and support. It helps increase our effective fighting. Force through various alliances.
Denmark- the guys we recently insulted- were one of the top providers of troops and materiel in our “war on terror.” Providing support and taking some load off of our military which was as is- over burdened and stretched.
Inter service rivalries asides- army, navy, Air Force, marines- joint forces generally are needed to win any war. Wether it’s fore support, transportation, or any other support- everyone in each service often relies upon each other to get the job done. And we too often rely on our allies to get the job done. Foreigners in the same fight on the same side bleeding on the same mud for the same cause.
Perhaps there is some benefit to their country, or just the benefit being allies offers. But those soldiers aren’t politicians. They fight the same as any other soldier because that’s what they are there to do.
If some foreign National came here and disrespected our government- when allies past and present disrespect our contribution to their conflicts... I find that unacceptable, don’t you?. So then why- would one not find it unacceptable when we would go to another country who’s people fought with us and disrespect them?
Character is in our choices. When we must- we do what we have to do. When we go to those same levels though- and we don’t have to- we aren’t “doing what we have to do.” We are being pricks. The man who doesn’t respect others, doesn’t respect himself. That is a tenant of military discipline unless things have taken a drastic twist in the past couple decades. You can bully people to get your way- but they won’t respect you. You can show your might but they don’t respect you. Respect is what keeps people in line when everything goes wrong. Fear is only a tool until people aren’t afraid or are more afraid of something else.
It would've been more diplomatic to bomb Osama to hell. The team was sent to confirm the kill, and more importantly as a "Fuck you!" to Pakistan for harboring him. Now why do we care about Europe? The Axis is dead. Europe is rebuilt. The Soviet Union, a bitter memory. Now, most of them, including Denmark, won't even pay their NATO obligation. But lord knows they'll lecture us about how wasteful our military spending is.
And even if Europe was the only way into the Middle East, the motherfuckers we wanted to kill are rotting in the sandbox and mountain ranges. Or the ocean. Time to mop up and leave. Russia doesn't want to fuck with us, even if they did they don't have the force projection to. It's the Chinese we'll have to worry about. Maybe the Iranians, but we can just back Israel when that powder keg finally goes off.
Shit, Russia likes Israel too, and they ain't fond of the Chinese any more than we are. What do they want? Syria? If aren't going to conquer it, why not let them?
10 years ago European allies were key. 30 years ago they were critical. 80 years ago there was no other option. What Axis are we defending against now? What Iron Curtain are we trying to lift?
Let the Euroes build themselves up. Let them fight their own coming battles. We don't need German broomsticks. We don't need allies who rush to give money and business to Iran. We don't need to fight the Russians. Times have changed, the old wars are fought and over. The Pacific is the new prize, and Africa too. Buddy up to Japan, the Koreas, South Africa, Nigeria, Vietnam, probably even Russia, too.
The global stage has changed, best we embrace our new position, and we definitely need to keep improving things domestically, or the United States will lose herself to the whims of foriegn lords, as if the minutemen never took up arms in the first place.
Without condoning specifics- the philosophy of taking care of things domestically is all well and good. But... again... one can take care of domestic interests diplomatically. It’s in the name... diplomat. Diplomatic mission. And so forth. There’s nothing stopping a person from doing both except incompetence or inability.
As for allies being important... the last several military actions by the United States used direct involvement of foreign allies. We do not have the ability to operate globally without the support and bases of allies. The intelligence and presence we need to defend our nation against threats comes through allies.
The war on terror relies on the help of our allies. There is no iron curtain as existed in the Cold War. There is no axis. There wasn’t one before there was one. There’s always another threat. The basic rule is expect the unexpected is it not? Better to prepare for war and hope for peace than find oneself unprepared for war?
Giving in to every demand to try to court friends isn’t too smart. But being civil when refusing those demands? Making concessions that don’t actually cost you? Little things can make huge gains- and showing a fundamental level of respect for others is how you get others to respect you.
You're postponing your visit? Wow. Let us check our viking genes, maybe they'll allow us to crumble and cry.
All of Europe is hoping to get their formerly very reliable partners from overseas back. Unfortunately we are lacking the sort of humour you need to work with people like him, so yeah, for the sake of future relations, please get rid of him ;)
For one, I'll be voting to Keep America Great.
The euroes want someone predictable, someone they can shame, embarrass, and who will fork over blood and money whenever they ring their little bell. Fuck 'em.
If a mechanic fixes my car, I don't care if he knocks over mailboxes in his free time.
If a guy huffs glue, I'm always going to prefer him over people who want me disarmed, my paycheck reduced, my father punished for being born the wrong color, and wants to send me and my brothers to fight forever wars while hamstrung.
I don't care about demonstrating "character". A strong, prosperous, sovereign nation that our enemies don't want to fuck with is more than enough for me, far more than I was expecting, and exactly the course my CIC put us on.
Give me a candidate who shares that mission and is a good person, and I will support them wholeheartedly. Force me choose between one or the other, and I choose the mission.
Give me one man with the mission in mind being opposed by a mob with neither the mission or the character, and it ain't even a fucking question.
Trump's predecessor was a warmonger too cowardly to dedicate to the fight, a Great Dividor who had no qualms attacking the people's inherent rights.
His rival was corrupt murderer who promised us more of the same, but worse. Now the whole damn world has lost it's mind. Begging for endless "police actions", declaring my elected leader a fascist and then calling for statist authoritarianism in the same breath,
We have surpassed the Godzilla threshold, and though things are improving in spite of the authoritarian's best efforts, we have no viable alternatives to Charlie Mike but to stay course.
Let's put it like this, while learning to clear houses we learned to shoot the dog, drop anyone who shows the slightest hint of resistance, and hold no bars in the face of dedicated resistance. That means kill the males, kill the women, and kill the children if they do anything but exactly the right thing. We are not nice, we are not civil, we are not soft-spoken, and we love our jobs, even if we hate everything in between.
I don't know what your image of the military is, but we're itching to do our fucking jobs. Kill the enemy and break their shit. Or, if you prefer "engage and destroy the enemies of the United States".
You can't shame me.
I rucked my twelve miles, I slept with my gun, I became damn good at my craft in conditions I know most everyone else would never endure. I love the misery, I thrive under duress, I live when I bleed. I'm out in the rain, in the snow, in the heat. Filthy, tired, literally crawling through piss and mud. All for the promise that maybe, one day, the enemy will be at the gate, and I'll get the privilege of helping some poor stupid son of a bitch die for his beliefs.
And even if Europe was the only way into the Middle East, the motherfuckers we wanted to kill are rotting in the sandbox and mountain ranges. Or the ocean. Time to mop up and leave. Russia doesn't want to fuck with us, even if they did they don't have the force projection to. It's the Chinese we'll have to worry about. Maybe the Iranians, but we can just back Israel when that powder keg finally goes off.
Shit, Russia likes Israel too, and they ain't fond of the Chinese any more than we are. What do they want? Syria? If aren't going to conquer it, why not let them?
Let the Euroes build themselves up. Let them fight their own coming battles. We don't need German broomsticks. We don't need allies who rush to give money and business to Iran. We don't need to fight the Russians. Times have changed, the old wars are fought and over. The Pacific is the new prize, and Africa too. Buddy up to Japan, the Koreas, South Africa, Nigeria, Vietnam, probably even Russia, too.
The global stage has changed, best we embrace our new position, and we definitely need to keep improving things domestically, or the United States will lose herself to the whims of foriegn lords, as if the minutemen never took up arms in the first place.