Anti-vaxxers are child abusers. If you knowingly gave your kid a deadly disease by injecting them you'd go to jail, but if you just let them catch it unnecessarily it's a right? Fuck that, you don't get to have kids.
Seize the means of reproduction? I'm curious how you intend to enforce that. Generally, not always, but generally it is wise not to give the government any more power than it absolutely needs to have, any right you surrender you had better be prepared to take it back by gunpoint, if the last couple centuries have taught us anything.
anti-vax is anti-science
and there is nothing can excuse the ignorance that leads to harming their own children
the worse thing is their ignorance doesn't not come from misfortune like not being able to go to school or not having access to knowledge
they choose to be misinformed.
parents from poor countries and rural areas walk miles and kilometters on bare feet to have their child vaccined.
it's those Karens and Kens down themselves in their own stupidity and endanger the children.
Oh I agree, let there be no mistake that I personally am pro vaccine.
I should elaborate from my first comment that both a government and a child's parents can be wrong and make for decisions that fuck up children. Neither are perfect. I guess I believe the parents USUALLY know what's best for their own children, better than any government. But not always. I am merely stating why I would be against goverment enforced vaccines the same way I'm against the death penalty or hate speech laws. Should you give up any of your rights if the circumstances are right? Maybe but you do so at great risk
I almost understand because o certainly don’t want the government involved with how I raise my child.
But generally, as a population we want want/allow the authorities to step on when children are being beaten or sexually abused. Because it is objectively abusive.
How is it not abusive to allow your child to be at risk for a preventable disease for no good reason? Your belief that science is not real is not a good reason.
Hm, so follow up question @roanoke in a seriousness and all respect. Let us say that there is a nation with an obesity problem. Heart problems and type 2 diebetes is on the rise, OK? So the government defines your children as clinically obese, so can they make you feed your children government approved rations at gunpoint or alternatively take away your children if you don't comply? This logic seems to have a limit so I'm curious what you think it is?
@jaharien that’s a very good question. I would agree that in many case childhood obesity is abusive. The issue that arises from enforced diets (in this case) is that obesity has many factors.
In the case of vaccines, there is. Polio vaccine prevents polio. Varicella vaccine prevents chicken pox (and later shingles).
There is not a uniform diet that can prevent/correct obesity unilaterally. Some factors are dietary, some are rooted in activity level, or hormones or mental illness or disability. Some chromosomal disorders or congenital pathology cause obesity. So it isn’t always abuse and it can’t always be managed so effectively.
I’m going to (so far) agree with jaharien that while I am pro vaccine- setting it up as child abuse to not do so is a slippery slope. Requiring vaccines for admission to public institutions, allowing private business to require people show proof of vaccination where they might contact others, (where some medical or other compulsion beyond opinion doesn’t prevent it) are all prudent, reasonable steps to protect society and ensure vaccination. But to mandate it... that’s a slippery slope. To add to jahariens question- what if the US government mandated circumcision of babies, and otherwise would be abuse, due to the increased risks of self infection or transmitting certain STI’s (such as studies showing those with foreskin are more likely to transmit HPV)? While a majority of America born men are circumcised already- meaning most Americans would be fine or not affected by such a law, a majority of Americans are also white- but that doesn’t make laws that affect minorities freedoms....
I’m going to (so far) agree with jaharien that while I am pro vaccine- setting it up as child abuse to not do so is a slippery slope. Requiring vaccines for admission to public institutions, allowing private business to require people show proof of vaccination where they might contact others, (where some medical or other compulsion beyond opinion doesn’t prevent it) are all prudent, reasonable steps to protect society and ensure vaccination. But to mandate it... that’s a slippery slope. To add to jahariens question- what if the US government mandated circumcision of babies, and otherwise would be abuse, due to the increased risks of self infection or transmitting certain STI’s (such as studies showing those with foreskin are more likely to transmit HPV)? While a majority of America born men are circumcised already- meaning most Americans would be fine or not affected by such a law, a majority of Americans are also white- but that doesn’t make laws that affect minorities freedoms....
... in a negative way right does it? The fact that we happen to support or agree with an idea doesn’t mean that passing laws mandating it is a good thing. Now I will say that at a certain point, diversity of people and population density start to make it so that even if a very small percentage of people don’t exercise “good judgment” that small percent becomes an unmanageably and dangerously large number. At some point, if we have no way to mitigate the harms caused by a more “hands off” system of individual freedom, it does begin to pose a serious risk to society. It’s just math. When there are 4 million people and 10% are defecating in public that’s not great but it is manageable. When there are 300 million people and 10% defecate in public- you have 30 million turds a day and a public health epidemic. At some point you’ll have to do something.
I’m willing to concede to a slippery slope on this.
I don’t have any notion that it could ever become legally abuse anyway. We don’t have the resources to investigate and manage nor enforce the vaccine. Then those case would have to be confirmed that the child can have the vaccine (since there are medical reasons not to). So really it doesn’t matter.
We actually do. In the United States children are required to have certain vaccinations to do things like attend public schools. You may also require certain vaccines to travel under certain circumstances. These are kept in your medical record. It wouldn’t be extremely difficult to create a system that actively checked that, costly but not difficult (due to scale and making sure records were converted.) But really, if they were to do such a thing, they’d probably make it more passive- as in, in scenarios where a child’s medical records are checked such as school registrations or doctors visits/new physicians- wait for reports of unvaccinated kids as opposed for looking for them. Doctored are already required by law to report evidence of other types of abuse against children, and most schools are required to do this as well. So if an administrator or doctor saw a child’s vaccinations werent up to date in their file, they’d likely ask the parent for a copy and of none was provided...
... in a timely fashion, refer the issue to DCS who wouldn’t need to visit. They could send a letter to the parents stating that a report was filed their children isn’t vaccinated. They could then compel the parent by law to provide proof to their standards such as a verified physicians record. In cases of non compliance, they could send an agent or involve the courts and issue summons with an order to provide proof. At that point if there isn’t a reply or no proof is provided- they could issue a court order to vaccinate the child. It’s unlikely that a first offense alone would result in loss of custody. The grounds would be endangering the kid- but if other than not vaccinating there was no evidence of danger to the child, after they were vaccinated there wouldn’t be much reason other than “dumb parents” not to return the child, and most family courts would hold that dumb parents are probably less damaging to a child than being put into the system.
I think the real issue wouldn’t be verification or even the resources to process those cases (although to your point it would certainly create strains on the system), I think the real issue would be to parents and kids having to navigate the whole red tape mess, and on the foster care system of got particularly bad.
and there is nothing can excuse the ignorance that leads to harming their own children
the worse thing is their ignorance doesn't not come from misfortune like not being able to go to school or not having access to knowledge
they choose to be misinformed.
parents from poor countries and rural areas walk miles and kilometters on bare feet to have their child vaccined.
it's those Karens and Kens down themselves in their own stupidity and endanger the children.
I should elaborate from my first comment that both a government and a child's parents can be wrong and make for decisions that fuck up children. Neither are perfect. I guess I believe the parents USUALLY know what's best for their own children, better than any government. But not always. I am merely stating why I would be against goverment enforced vaccines the same way I'm against the death penalty or hate speech laws. Should you give up any of your rights if the circumstances are right? Maybe but you do so at great risk
But generally, as a population we want want/allow the authorities to step on when children are being beaten or sexually abused. Because it is objectively abusive.
How is it not abusive to allow your child to be at risk for a preventable disease for no good reason? Your belief that science is not real is not a good reason.
In the case of vaccines, there is. Polio vaccine prevents polio. Varicella vaccine prevents chicken pox (and later shingles).
There is not a uniform diet that can prevent/correct obesity unilaterally. Some factors are dietary, some are rooted in activity level, or hormones or mental illness or disability. Some chromosomal disorders or congenital pathology cause obesity. So it isn’t always abuse and it can’t always be managed so effectively.
I don’t have any notion that it could ever become legally abuse anyway. We don’t have the resources to investigate and manage nor enforce the vaccine. Then those case would have to be confirmed that the child can have the vaccine (since there are medical reasons not to). So really it doesn’t matter.