Was Romania Soviet? Maybe it was an attempt to undermine state-mandated atheism? Maybe it was a physiological play? Maybe there actually were groups that wanted bibles they couldn't source themselves?
Har har, hate America is funny, but I'm actually wondering here.
Do you not have google? is this how you do research? That explains a lot...The short answer is the cold war. The soviet union saw religion as vastly more detrimental to society than beneficial (which some evidence supports) but the US was doing anything and everything to undermine the soviet union at that time so they wanted to spread Christianity in Romania. Romania at the time was tired of the Catholic Romanian church bowing to foreign powers (b/c it had for hundreds of years) so it did push an anti-religion stance. Both were wrong. Freedom of religion is an important right that should be upheld right until it infringes on anyone else's rights (like if I had a religion of eating people against their will, or less hyperbolic, allowing 12 year olds (old testament)to be married). That being said each country's culture has their own sovereign right to set what laws fit that culture (even a lot of the ones we don't agree with, like eating dogs). Human rights is a whole other argument.
@bluelagoon
wait, BOTH were wrong?
how is supplying a fuck ton of religious texts infringing on someone's right to religious freedom? you aren't forced to follow the tenants and lifestyle given by the religious text when supplied a free copy of it by a stranger. How in the hell is giving access to banned religious text doing anything other than helping religious freedom?
To answer your question in a new thread @famousone tldr is Coldwar. Thank you for coming to my Ted talk.
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No but seriously a lot of it comes down to Romanian perceived individuality as a nation vs the other Soviet Bloc nations in Europe. Romania made several overtures towards the US throughout the 80's (such as attending the 1984 Olympics held in the US whilst the rest of the soviet bloc boycotted the games) and had shown several signs of moving away from Moscow and towards Beijing (which was seen favorably by the US due to expanding US and Chinese relations at the time).
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Now onto the bibles the Transylvanian Magyar Reformed Church was permitted to recieve these bibles by the government. I couldn't find anything official outlining why but upon arrival the bibles were directed by the Romanian government to a recycling center. The likely reason is that Moscow intervened. This was likely a slight directed at Raegan who's focus on religious based diplomacy rubbed Moscow the wrong way.
I also can't find anything referencing the 70's as all the articles I've found were written in the 80's so idk if meme is wrong, if there's two separate incidents involving romania and bibles, or I'm blind (which is entirely possible lol)
I appreciate you putting in the leg work, here!
So Romania made the terrible mistake of trying to be a sovereign nation and the other commies didn't appreciate that. So Reagan backed them up and sent the bibles to throw some mud in the Soviet's eyes. Assuming I understand what you typed, that sounds like a pretty decent cold war story.
Kinda, it's more realpolitik than that. Romania was never going to strike out against the USSR in any major way. They used the preferred trading status with the US to lure US companies into the country so that they could have spies in these industries to sell the info to Moscow. Romania had one of the harshest regimes in the Soviet Bloc and routinely killed/imprisoned minority religious leaders.
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Nicolae Ceaușescu politically opposed post Stalin USSR but still supported Moscow over the west. More so because he wished to retain all the power in Romania to himself. This required him to kowtow to USSR in order to have military support should a popular uprising occurred. The most likely spark of the uprising would be over religious reasons. Ergo another reason to get rid of the bibles.
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If interested I could go into the Sino-Soviet split to better lay out this dynamic.
Basically Romania feigned openness to the west to get economic benefits, espionage, and international recognition by deceiving the US' intelligence services and diplomatic attaché in Bucharest.
This just gets better and better! So it was people trying to consolidate power by playing on economic incentives and bluffing allegiances or lack thereof
Pretty much. Now that's not to say Romania didn't stand in Moscows way throughout their coldway years. Ceausecu is a fascinating individual. Ceaușescu recognised the state of Israel (which the soviet bloc considered a imperialistic endeavor by the Brits), supported Romanian nationalism (which wasn't permitted in any other bloc state), and denounced the 1968 Warsaw Pact invasion of Czechoslovakia (IIRC only 2 communist governments in Europe protested the invasion Romania and Albania). In 1971 Ceaușescu denounced the route in which the USSR was heading in the wake of Stalins death (who had been dead for 20 years at that point) and aligned himself more with the Chinese ideology of communism.
Har har, hate America is funny, but I'm actually wondering here.
wait, BOTH were wrong?
how is supplying a fuck ton of religious texts infringing on someone's right to religious freedom? you aren't forced to follow the tenants and lifestyle given by the religious text when supplied a free copy of it by a stranger. How in the hell is giving access to banned religious text doing anything other than helping religious freedom?
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No but seriously a lot of it comes down to Romanian perceived individuality as a nation vs the other Soviet Bloc nations in Europe. Romania made several overtures towards the US throughout the 80's (such as attending the 1984 Olympics held in the US whilst the rest of the soviet bloc boycotted the games) and had shown several signs of moving away from Moscow and towards Beijing (which was seen favorably by the US due to expanding US and Chinese relations at the time).
-
Now onto the bibles the Transylvanian Magyar Reformed Church was permitted to recieve these bibles by the government. I couldn't find anything official outlining why but upon arrival the bibles were directed by the Romanian government to a recycling center. The likely reason is that Moscow intervened. This was likely a slight directed at Raegan who's focus on religious based diplomacy rubbed Moscow the wrong way.
So Romania made the terrible mistake of trying to be a sovereign nation and the other commies didn't appreciate that. So Reagan backed them up and sent the bibles to throw some mud in the Soviet's eyes. Assuming I understand what you typed, that sounds like a pretty decent cold war story.
-
Nicolae Ceaușescu politically opposed post Stalin USSR but still supported Moscow over the west. More so because he wished to retain all the power in Romania to himself. This required him to kowtow to USSR in order to have military support should a popular uprising occurred. The most likely spark of the uprising would be over religious reasons. Ergo another reason to get rid of the bibles.
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If interested I could go into the Sino-Soviet split to better lay out this dynamic.