Which is fine, but they ignore the child's life to the point that it seems like they don't realize that's a part of the argument, and they usually come off as ignorant or just terrible at debate.
Why was garlog down voted? He(or she) showed a valid point. Many people ignore the fact that the baby is a person with their lives to look forward to, just because they are still in the process of being born and can't voice their opinion. The main opinion voiced is the mother, who is mostly biased because she is afraid of many things and just wants it to stop.(this is coming from a family member's regret) (She is still coping with her fear-driven decision 20 years later)
You're right, the pro-choice argument becomes irrelevant when the value of an unborn life is ignored. But in my mind, the mother's has a higher priority than the unborn. Thus, the mother should be able to choose. Of course, the mother could always choose to give birth...
@garlog
I believe the living who have been wronged (rape) have a greater claim to their rights to not suffer childbirth than the unborn who has not been (yet) wronged.
"a greater claim to their rights"
I don't think anyone has this.
Just to clarify, you think people who are wronged have a greater claim to their rights than people who have not been wronged?
@tyler
What i was saying, is that you could be meaning the mother would be more important than the unborn baby because the baby has a greater chance of dying but nevermind
@garlog
I believe the living have rights whereas the not-yet alive have pretty much only one, which is the right to be born. However, I'd rather have some"one" lose that right than the mother to lose all hers: right to privacy, right to not give birth/have a family, right to avoid unwanted suffering, right to remove evidence of trauma(tic incidents), ect.
Ah, so your one of those "fetuses aren't alive" people.
Do you think there is a limit to when an abortion can be performed, or are fine with it right up until birth?
Also, how do you figure that the fetus doesn't have all the rights of post-birth people?
i believe fetuses are alive from conception. But I feel that abortion is the lesser evil. Yes abortion is murder by my definition, but it's something that was unwanted to begin with.
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I stand by the U.S. Law, abortions are fine in the first trimester, illegal in the last, and the middle is determined by the state.
And something I just realized by typing that last reply. If the child isn't wanted, it's not gonna have a good childhood. Neglect by the parent or abandoned to an orphanage are pretty traumatic.
I guess I worded that badly...
I'm gonna copy-paste what I replied to someone else just now.
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I believe in fixing what we have before bringing anything else (good or bad). Help the living and even though it's tragic to have to kill an unborn, if it'll help the living so be it. Do it.
I thought I was attacking your argument. Your argument hinges on a difference between born and unborn people that places priority on the rights of the born. I'm trying to figure out what that difference is.
The biggest difference I see is that one has had a chance (born) and the other hasn't (unborn).
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I dunno at this point. I still stand by my view but I'm not sure how to argue it any further.
I see. I would argue that whether the unborn deserves a chance should be a factor, but if that's as far as you've thought it through, than that's cool.
The biological byproduct of sex is a child. If you aren't prepared for the consequences of your actions don't proceed with the activity. You can't just abort children because you arent responsible enough to make rational choices with the consequences in mind.
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deleted
· 8 years ago
Yes guest!! I wish I could like this a million times! :)
Yes, it's true, the biological byproduct of sex is a child. But unlike many other animals, humans sometimes have sex to share a special moment with their partner. Sometimes we do it only for the pleasure it can bring us. And that's not something to be ashamed of .Sex, especially during teenage years, is not always carried out with the intent of procreation. It's not because a child is a byproduct of sex that you shouldn't have sex : you can use contraception, and if you do become pregnant, you should have the right to abort if you don't want the child, if you think you won't be able to care for it in the way a child deserves to be cared for. If you don't think you're prepared for that sort of responsibility, and don't think you can go through pregnancy and the adoption of your child, then it should be perfectly acceptable to abort.
You missed the point of the comment. Sex isn't without risks and an unhealthy disregard for consequences can result in unwanted situations. By promoting abortion, society fosters the idea that consequences are not important which is a dangerous situation.
You're arguing with a false analogy, insisting children are parasitic. Anyways, if you were responsible prior to engaging in sexual activity you would never contract an STD making your point moot. You seem to be proving my point actually. There are consequences for actions yes but in no way am I advocating anything that is harmful to ones health. The only time I see abortion as an option is when the health of the mother is dire. Not taking your medication is a completely different scenario because it's ingestion/application doesn't result in the death of a child.
if you do not want a child, then that fetus is very much parasitic. You can get an STD being responsible the same way you can get pregnant while being responsible. Sometimes shit just happens. Abortion does not result in the death of a child, it results in the death of a fetus. I am done with this now, since trying to change a persons moral or religious opinion on anything with logic never has and never will be successful.
It's nice that you believe you are the only logical person here and that believing a fetus is alive is illogical and irrational. We can have differing views on where life begins it's completely fine to view a fetus as a child.
Yes. I believe the rights of the living supercede the rights of those who have yet to live. In other words, the mother (assuming an unfortunate circumstance such as rape) has the right to go through the pain, drama, and effort that bearing and birthing a child requires. Of course, if you're using abortion as the primary birth control, you probably should be the one aborted.
nobody uses abortion as primary birth control, its expensive, its painful, its messy, its traumatic. when people even imply this is makes me crazy cuz it makes sound like you just take that little pill and a fetus drops in the toilet and you go on with your life and ppl just go around doing that.
So if the people living now are more important than the people who haven't been born yet, then we should feel free to trash the planet, get into ridiculous amounts of debt, and all other kinds of selfish behavior. Let's throw abortion in there too.
It's not like we aren't already doing that
/sarcasm
Why do you think the unborn are more valuable than the born? I believe in fixing what we have before bringing anything else (good or bad). Help the living and even though it's tragic to have to kill an unborn, if it'll help the living so be it. Do it.
I didn't say they were more important. But if we don't have our posterity, what do we have? Nothing. We'll live for a few decades, then we'll die and have left the world no better (and probably worse).
You can tell a lot about society by the way it treats its most vulnerable members. So by all means, let's go ahead and kill off those who have no way to defend themselves. It'll make us all better off, right?
I do understand that. But that's a risk I'm willing to take. I do what I can to not get pregnant (while still having sex), and it's been working for 2,5 years. I am ready to make a descision about what to do if I do end up pregnant, and that's what is important. If you're not ready to deal with the consequenses, then you're not ready to have sex.
Yeah, and there's no such thing as adoption. The government pours so much money into abortion and you see couples who would long to have kids pour a ton of money into fertility. Why can't the government just support adoption?
I'm a foster sister. We've had many foster kids. We've also adopted a boy who we got from a mom who didn't want him. My mom was the first person to hold him when he was born. Comparing the foster system to at-birth adoption is like comparing apples and oranges. Yeah, they are both fruits, but that's where the similarity ends. Knowing the foster system very well, I know how flawed of a system it is. That, however, is not what we are talking about. Your question is irrelevant.
If u think your mature enough for sex at 16, then you're mature enough to have a child. If u don't want a child, then don't have sex. Abortion is murder, period.
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deleted
· 8 years ago
Thank you! I fail to see why people can't grasp this! I don't know why the right to marry is seen as more important than the right to LIFE!
I don't think most high school girls choose to have kids in school. What if the condom broke? What if his pullout game was weak? What if shes physically unable to give birth?
I don't think that at all. I'm more of the no premarital sex kinda guy, and not because I can't get a gf, which I usually get accused of and for being a bitter loser, it just seems weird. I'm 20 years old and I don't think I'm ready to have my first kiss yet, nevermind losing my virginity
Also, I'm not judging. You do you, but don't make the unborn child take the blame. I realize there are so many situations where abortion may seem like the only way out, but there has to be another option. I can't preach about it seeing how I'm not a pregnant teen girl and nor will I ever be, but there has to be a better way.
4
deleted
· 8 years ago
Thank you I completely agree thethirdi!
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deleted
· 8 years ago
If anyone decides to not have an abortion but is worried about adoption, I will adopt your baby, just mail it to me. We will become Bros and I will raise it to be an evil thug genius
"Am I not entitled to an opinion? "
Yes, but it's usually a good idea to have a reason for that opinion, especially when it involves the actions of others.
"there has to be a better way. "
There's raising the child or adoption. Why are you talking as though there may be another alternative?
Because there might be. Unwanted pregnancies isn't at the top of my list of problems to solve. I just gave my thoughts on the matter. Do I expect people to think my thoughts are the end all and the perfect answer, no. I don't even have an answer, just a way I think the question COULD be avoided. You have every right to do what you want; I can't and won't try to stop you.
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deleted
· 8 years ago
I'm that other alternative! Me and that baby will drink beer and be broskis
What's your rational for this?
I believe the living who have been wronged (rape) have a greater claim to their rights to not suffer childbirth than the unborn who has not been (yet) wronged.
I don't understand? What do you mean?
I don't think anyone has this.
Just to clarify, you think people who are wronged have a greater claim to their rights than people who have not been wronged?
What i was saying, is that you could be meaning the mother would be more important than the unborn baby because the baby has a greater chance of dying but nevermind
I believe the living have rights whereas the not-yet alive have pretty much only one, which is the right to be born. However, I'd rather have some"one" lose that right than the mother to lose all hers: right to privacy, right to not give birth/have a family, right to avoid unwanted suffering, right to remove evidence of trauma(tic incidents), ect.
Do you think there is a limit to when an abortion can be performed, or are fine with it right up until birth?
Also, how do you figure that the fetus doesn't have all the rights of post-birth people?
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I stand by the U.S. Law, abortions are fine in the first trimester, illegal in the last, and the middle is determined by the state.
I'm gonna copy-paste what I replied to someone else just now.
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I believe in fixing what we have before bringing anything else (good or bad). Help the living and even though it's tragic to have to kill an unborn, if it'll help the living so be it. Do it.
Better?
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Please don't nitpick my words. Attack my argument.
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I dunno at this point. I still stand by my view but I'm not sure how to argue it any further.
/sarcasm
Why do you think the unborn are more valuable than the born? I believe in fixing what we have before bringing anything else (good or bad). Help the living and even though it's tragic to have to kill an unborn, if it'll help the living so be it. Do it.
You can tell a lot about society by the way it treats its most vulnerable members. So by all means, let's go ahead and kill off those who have no way to defend themselves. It'll make us all better off, right?
Dont have sex before mairrage. Ever.
I don't think so.
If you have sex -even with protection- you understand you can get pregnant
I asked "What would you have the government do?"
How is that question irrelevant?
Why should your personal feelings dictate what others should do?
Yes, but it's usually a good idea to have a reason for that opinion, especially when it involves the actions of others.
"there has to be a better way. "
There's raising the child or adoption. Why are you talking as though there may be another alternative?