People these days get so butthurt about everything and I hate it.
29Reply
deleted
· 8 years ago
I mean like how in the world can you be no gender? OR BOTH AT THE SAME TIME?
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· 8 years ago
Firstly, on the ladder part of that, no one is both at the same time. Gender fluid people just switch occasionally, and its in certain intervals, like from day to day it may switch, week to week, etc. And on your question about being agendered, let me pose this question to you:
How did you realize you were a dude? You didn't? Exactly. There's a proven difference between gender and sex, neither of which are able to be consciously decided. Gender fluid people don't choose. Transgender people don't choose. Its just an inherit feeling for that person.
I've talked to trained medical psychologist with degrees about this, especially with the person who's helping me start my own transition from male to female in February when I don't have much to talk about otherwise, and he's told me all of this. I didn't come up with this. Someone who's trained to know this, and how to keep up to date on it, has told me about this.
I'm not a vegan... Nor do I agree with most of the Tumblr extremist... I'm just answering questions and explaining some psychology to those who seem to have a fundamental misunderstanding of gender and sex... Nor am I angry at them for not knowing. I'm just trying to clear up misconceptions about the trans, agendered, and gender fluid community.
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deleted
· 8 years ago
And I'm actually transgender (in the specific form of switching from either a girl or boy to the other) not fluid. I dont understand how your extrapolating any of this. I'm not calling anyone names. I'm just trying to discuss some of the proven psychology behind these groups of people.
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deleted
· 8 years ago
I fully and completely understand trans, but:
1.Several documents tell me I am male. Therefore I am male.
2. I /consciously decided the my gender and sex were male/.
3. That's great that you have provided antecedent evidence from your life about this, but I don't need nor care about that. Every argument needs facts.
4.Without said evidence, I am going to dismiss your argument. Hope you have a great transition though.
Just answer me that, how in the past years, nobody knew what are all this precious genderfluids or switching between sexes every 3 minutes, and the only thing was changing the gender, and it was so rare! And now every third kid is space kitty with both genitals or transgender genderfluid pony, trapped in a woman's body, who wants to be girl pony in a man's body?
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deleted
· 8 years ago
See, I have no need to insult anyone. I don't see why /some people/ have show such revolting resentment in a simple /debate/. It show how low you are.
Akasha, it seems like you are throwing a torch at a figure in the dark. I don't understand them, but I'm not going to jump at genderfluids or agender people and rip them apart emotionally. They are have enough luggage as it is, not being accepted. Don't give them more.
That is actually great evidence.
I can at least agree with you now and see where you're coming from, that_gamer_girl.
MY argument also didn't have any evidence so I guess I was a bit of a hypocrite.
My point was, that 50 years ago nobody knew about all this stuff, and the percent of people who had these disorders was so insignificant. And now every third kid is finding this researches in the internet and decide, that he's not a girl or a boy, but it's a FLUID!!!!
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deleted
· 8 years ago
What I don't get it why I'm getting down voted so much. I haven't down voted anyone else comments, I've even upvoted a few. Really the only reason I hate having arguments like this is that a very select few people will actually change their mind. And also sero, about something you said earlier, about you being male, yes. If you were born with XY (believe thats what it is for males) or a penis (depending on how you decide, because some people dont have those lining up) then you were born male. But that's sex, not gender. There is a divide.
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Edited 8 years ago
deleted
· 8 years ago
Akasha, I believe (and this is me with my hypothesizing, not actually with any backing) that stems from a lack of diagnoses rather than a lack of cases, similar to the new autism epidemic (that actually has backing ,the autism part) or it could be because of car exhaust. Who knows? What I don't see is how that's an argument against me. Thats an interesting question, but one that doesn't counter any argument I've made. At least I dont see how it does, if you were even using it that way. And you even said, there was not a lot of knowledge about this 50 years ago, which backs up my initial guess. And also, "it" isn't really used as a gender neutral term, and "they" is becoming more commonly accepted as singular gender neutral pronoun.
may I insert my opinion here that anyone who is neither male or female is abnormal? I'll try and find my old comment explaining myself when I get back to my laptop.
Ok. I get the difference between sex and gender and maybe it is a concept hard to grasp for people like me. I"m a girl borm a gurl and i just feel like a girl i guess. I hated pink and dresses growing up but i always knew i was a gurl and never thought i could be a boy just because i didnt like stereotypes. With that said.... my problem id the gender fluid ... why not just like ru paul? I believe he is gay transvesti (sorry if it is mispelled or not appropriate term) i believe not transgender because he is just a gay man that sometimes dresses as a girl. And does a great job i should add.... so, isn't that same as fluid!!!???
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deleted
· 8 years ago
While I don't know who that is, within fluid there are also multiple groups, like drag, transvestite, and gender queer. If they switch between genders for whatever reason, they are fluid.
On that note when seeing caitlyn jenners interviews that is what i got from her that she likde to dress as a woman (again fron the interviews im not in her shoes) so you can be like ru paul. He doesn't call himself a woman eventhough he looks better than most! And he wants to. I guess i don't get it because (to me) if caitlyn wants to be a woman idk why she doesn't want surgery.
Tylerchu - "abnormal," while technically referring to anything out of the normal, has generally gained a connotation of "something that needs to be fixed." And while I have no problem with acknowledging that genderfluid/transgender people are atypical, I have a BIG problem with anyone telling them they need to "fix" themselves, instead of just be themselves.
See, "not right" also has the connotation of "bad." I mean, if you get it, that's great, it's just the wording you're using is still sounding like you think atypical people need to be fixed.
I'll just go ahead and join here instead of having two threads.
Both links (and the studies they make reference to) are just reiterating that all of these cases aside from male and female do exist in psychology, and that we don't entirely know where does that come from at the time in the womb.
What i'm saying is that male and female are physical - biological if you prefer - diferentiations, while the other ones are psychological.
My point is that from the psychological perspective, anything can occur and anyone could be in any of those groups, since there is no scientific tests that can be made to determine "where you belong to". That is, without aknowledging the actual subject that affirms to be "X" group. Personal POVs can vary and be influenciated, and are not to be trusted.
We can't set those "mental states" to actual, physical genders. Some people believe they are animals - or want to be-. Are they actual animals (as in, foxes, dogs, etc) ?
(writting more)
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deleted
· 8 years ago
And also, where do you draw the line between insanity and realistic mental states. Bipolar - or multipolar- people are very real, but they do not count as several people. They count as one with a mental disease. How is that different from someone identifying as something else? (not trying to insult, genuely throwing the question for debate)
@gamer girl omg you just made me feel old! Lol but is tge guy from drag race he was huge in the 90s. And ok so it is basically the same then. But i guess before there were less terms. Less confusing.
Oh no i am nor saying that but there are some. Of course i am agins the "if we marry same sex some people will marry a dog" crap but let's face it there are crazies that would try but you are right :x
Found my comment. Copy-pasta
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Let's use transgender as an example.
It's been repeatedly brought up that transgenders are because they have the wrong brain. To this I say that they are abnormal and transgender is a disorder (for lack of a better word). I say this is abnormal because something is physically wrong with your brain chemistry. However, this disorder is not necessarily bad. I will never think of a transgender as "normal" but I will not treat them any different than I would [most] other people.
Same with all these -kins. Until someone shows me that this is not an anomaly within the brain, I say that you are not normal. Not bad, but not normal.
Well, I'm with that gamer girl here.
The misconceptions and the general ignorance about human sexuality and gender are a lot and are all around us.
But just one thing, there's cientific data about this topic. There are areas of the brain that are affected differently by hormones and change the fetus development.
Sexuality and gender identity aren't the same, but, there's one thing they've got in common: you can't decide about yours.
Let's get clear; if they could possibly decide, why can't you? I, myself, can't force me to be sexually atracted to other woman, or to feel like a man.
Why, if there was any other option, would anyone spend a lifetime suffering? Getting bullied in school, pointed at, made fun of?
I do not think that all the tumblr ideas about sex and gender are right, but they're mostly teens trying to find themselves.
And one thing is an histrionic teenager, and other thing is a real issue for millions of people.
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deleted
· 8 years ago
*When vegans say they are not vegan and you find the vegan because they say the arent vegan*
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deleted
· 8 years ago
*When assholes say they aren't assholes and you find the asshole because they say they aren't an asshole
Holy shit, I can't believe this is still something people debate about. Gender is different than sex. Sex is biological, gender is social. Gender is also a sliding scale, with hardly anyone falling on the 100% male (or in gender terms, man) or 100% female (woman) side of things. There are variables.
Gender is not social, it's a property of nouns. Masculine, feminine, or neutral. And gender damn sure doesn't mean "I can make up whatever special snowflake status I want for myself so that tumblr glorifies me and makes me a flag"
Sex, obviously, is a property of living things. Male or female.
These special snowflakes seem to forget that the divide between male and female is because we need one of each to procreate, not differentiate socially. Each has their role. (Yeah, gender roles. They fuckin exist and it's worked just fine before tumblr.)
It's about furthering the species, not being unique. You know what happens when you're unique? Your fucking bloodline dies out, that's what.
I think we have gender roles like a woman needs to have a baby if she wants to and a man needs to help create that baby for there to be one, but I don't agree in the whole "woman need to stay home and men need to work" gender roles. Like we've advanced so much that that way of thinking just doesn't make sense anymore. And nobody really cares anymore if their "bloodline dies out" we're already overpopulated as it is.
No, it wasn't better back then . So many people were unhappy and felt like they were mistakes.
It's not confusing. If someone wants you to call them a she, do it. If someone wants you to call them a he, do it.
If someone wants to be called they/them, do it
It's not confusing, you're making it confusing for yourself
There are people struggling with gender identity, which is a real thing, and you don't understand it because you're not one of them .
We have a TREMENDOUS way to go on equality.
But can I just point out that it's awesome that we've come far enough that "white" is the thing, instead of "Saxon" or "British" or "Italian" or "Frankish" or "Irish"?
Let's try to widen it all the way out to "human," shall we?
Sure it was easier for you, but it was hell for many others who were told what they felt didn't exist, are you really saying you being not confused is more important that those "little feelings" of loneliness and hurt that can consume a person?
Yeah, gender=birth-assigned sex was way simpler. Lapidating any woman who was suspected of cheating on her husband was simpler too. All this "talking about stuff and learning respect" shit is really exhausting, man.
7Reply
deleted
· 8 years ago
Wait, are you telling me people who have nothing to do with you living and communicating in a way that also has nothing to do with you hurts your fragile little feelings? Wow, who would have thought living in the grown up world would mean occasionally encountering things out of the norm?
Honestly this is like the sixth post I've seen like this in the last six months? Why do people keep posting these things? I honestly don't think it's very fun, regardless of my opinion.
I do, as I said earlier in this thread. You obviously don't though, because you think you're a chick even though you can see your dick. That makes you delusional or mentally ill. The reality and facts are that you are a fucking dude no matter how many tits you grow with hormones, no matter how many SJWs follow you on tumblr.
Copy-pasta
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Let's use transgender as an example.
It's been repeatedly brought up that transgenders are because they have the wrong brain. To this I say that they are abnormal and transgender is a disorder (for lack of a better word). I say this is abnormal because something is physically wrong with your brain chemistry. However, this disorder is not necessarily bad. I will never think of a transgender as "normal" but I will not treat them any different than I would [most] other people.
Same with all these -kins. Until someone shows me that this is not an anomaly within the brain, I say that you are not normal. Not bad, but not normal.
I'm disappointed rarepepe, I respect your right to have an opinion, but fuck you if you think its okay to be such a massive dick to someone for who or what they feel they are when its so perfectly reasonable. Having an opinion that disagrees with someone's lifestyle and being a belligerent asshole are two different things.
Christ, why does it bother you guys so much if people want to make it more complicated than that? It'll only ever be your business if they obnoxiously spout an opinion on Facebook, in which case I'm sure they can get in line with the vegans and the crossfitters. Beyond that, the only time you'll be made to care is if you take one of them to bed or you are kindly asked not to call them monsters. Is that such a motherfucking colossal sacrifice, you dickweasel?
I liked the world better when shit like this wasn't a point of contention and a hotbed for asshurts who get off on making the entire world politically correct.
I believe gender is different from sex and you actually can be born a man and feel like a woman or vice versa. Cisgender is not the only "serious" gender and yes, people sometimes dont feel identified with the sex they were born with and that's acceptable too. Everyone should be free to build their identities without feeling as if they were bothering other people.
(sorry if my english is bad, not my native language).
To be completely honest I don't give a shit what you identify as, you can be a fucking taco bell quesadilla for all I care, just don't be a twat about it. Also Holly shit 100+ comments in 1 hour
Funny how this post is discussing OP's (and many of the commenter's) own opinions and feelings on gender all-the-while ostracizing transgendered people's opinions and feelings on gender. Kind of hypocritical, don't you think? Maybe no one cares about /your/ fragile little feelings.
God I hate these fucking posts. I would've loved to go a week without some shitstorm like this thrown on FUNsunstance. Get on the chat section with this shit, don't get it to popular just to facilitate dickbaggery in the comments.
I reeeaaallly wish there was a way to report these types of posts. I submitted a complain once but idk if the FS gods read it or gave a shit. It's just so unnecessary, like, I didn't need to have some peoples intolerance shoved in my face. People don't make posts like "It was so simple when all the n*ggers were slaves!" Sooooo whyyyy is this ANY different?
Because that was claiming someone was not a person and whipping and raping them without consequence and this is complaining about people's gender identity. I agree with you besides that but please do not try to equate the two.
I find these types of posts ironic, tbh. A lot of people on this site claim to hate tumblr and then they post these very tumblr-like posts. Not to mention the fact that it's confusing as to why people put so much obvious effort into caring about something that has fuck all to do with them.
Actually, tumblr does affect us. One example is the recent trend of college 'safe spaces' which are designed to create a hugbox for people who are literally adults. It results in young adults freaking out over the smallest shit, because they've been sheilded throughout their stay at college. Also, there's a college campus that apparently kicks students out of the class if they say the word mankind; they are required to say like person kind or people or something. Essentially, tumblr is creating a new generation of easily triggered pussies who support censorship. So yes, it does have something to do with us, calmthelovelytits.
Very true calmthelovelytits and fair enough barcode, I absolutely see your point. Not quite a valid comparison but I'm not going to edit my comment because if I said it, I said it, and I retract that comparison now. But, y'all know what I meant. Things that are clearly anti-something that's becoming a social norm of this nature (lgbt+ etcetera etcetera) really shouldn't be forced into everyone else's sights, especially not here. There's a time and a place. This is not the place. Go to the chat and be intolerant or something for fucks sake xD
I was specifically talking about someone else's gender (and sexual, since y'all like to get whacked backwards about that too) identity. That, as I said, has fuck all to do with you.
You edited your post calmthelovelytits. You said recently people have been putting effort into hating tumblr, and that is ironic because it has fuck all to do with us. Retracting your words just means that you admit that you're wrong.
And man2, I agree in that those situations are the other extreme of this entire discussion we are part of, and is no less improper. There's a middle ground of formulating, having, expressing, and observing opinions one must learn to develop and have, and some people have difficulty with any multitude of those things. Neither extreme is good in an argument most times. We aren't supporting those extremes, just the reasonable middle grounds and such.
It's funny cause it's an opinion. And then there are opinions that say opinions shouldn't matter. And then those who have opinions that say it's okay to have opinions. In my opinion, you could have an opinion on the subject, but you should never pound your opinion onto others. Everyone has their sides and their evidence, but really, it's all about what you think is right.
perchuthemoreosguy had one with upwards of a thousand I think. Mostly it was one person rapidly posting one word at a time to string together a halfway coherent idea except that it was an inside joke so most didn't understand. Or else it was just a select few being really weird. Personally I'd say that had about 50 actual comments once you throw words together.
I'm in no need to defend the trans phenomenon, honestly. But it's hilarious how people still think gender = sex. One is a biological definition (Male or Female). The other is a complex sense of "normal" behaviors for MEN and WOMEN (boys/girls). The later changes over time and between culture, it's not something that's stayed the same even over the last 30yrs.
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TLDR - I'm perplexed by people's inability to grasp definitions >.<
holy shit there's so much fucking controversy in these comments
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· 8 years ago
I think a lot of it is boiling over irritation. Lately there's a lot of posts whining about people on tumblr, or complaints that can basically be boiled down to "the world is changing and I don't like it." Which is a fine way to feel, change is never smooth, but people come here for fun stuff and instead get hit with this. Repeatedly. Daily.
Gender and sex are apparently separate? ... I mean you are who you wanna be, but that was something I didn't know a while back owo
Also like
Chill with the LGBTphobe stuff plox
"Political correctness" is just about trying not to disrespect people, even when that means changing modes of address that we've been using for hundreds of years... because it often turns out that we've been using blatantly insulting modes of address/language for hundreds of years.
The only people I've really heard want the difference outlined is bi people who want to specify that they are strictly into binary people - genderfluid turns them off.
What about people with messed up chromosomes like XXY or XYY (which exist)? Or the proven psychology behind both transgender people and a-gendered people?
Sure, that was simpler, but it was a wrong world view.
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deleted
· 8 years ago
Like you said, it was MESSED UP chromosomes. General rules are meant for the average cases, which were and indeed still are, X and Y.
Could you please point where can i find those phychology studies you refer to?
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· 8 years ago
See comment chain with sero, that has most of the sources.
I take the post as simpler if xx and xy would just feel as they are the corresponding gender. So not wrong and just simpler if it was just determined by biology
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· 8 years ago
But they were saying they "liked the world better when..." Which means that they, well, liked the world better when the world was incorrect. And saying that, I do agree that it would be simpler if it was purely based off of biology and there was no thing as gender vs sex.
Buuuuut as long as the world has specific gender role expectations, there will be nonconforming identities. I personally relish chaos and complexity, it's what allows for a society more complex than "You find food. Give me half and I keep other big person from killing you. Don't give me half and I kill you myself."
Copy-pasta
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Let's use transgender as an example.
It's been repeatedly brought up that transgenders are because they have the wrong brain. To this I say that they are abnormal and transgender is a disorder (for lack of a better word). I say this is abnormal because something is physically wrong with your brain chemistry. However, this disorder is not necessarily bad. I will never think of a transgender as "normal" but I will not treat them any different than I would [most] other people.
Same with all these -kins. Until someone shows me that this is not an anomaly within the brain, I say that you are not normal. Not bad, but not normal.
How did you realize you were a dude? You didn't? Exactly. There's a proven difference between gender and sex, neither of which are able to be consciously decided. Gender fluid people don't choose. Transgender people don't choose. Its just an inherit feeling for that person.
I've talked to trained medical psychologist with degrees about this, especially with the person who's helping me start my own transition from male to female in February when I don't have much to talk about otherwise, and he's told me all of this. I didn't come up with this. Someone who's trained to know this, and how to keep up to date on it, has told me about this.
1.Several documents tell me I am male. Therefore I am male.
2. I /consciously decided the my gender and sex were male/.
3. That's great that you have provided antecedent evidence from your life about this, but I don't need nor care about that. Every argument needs facts.
4.Without said evidence, I am going to dismiss your argument. Hope you have a great transition though.
Besides that I really don't know what your talking about akasha
And on agendered people:
https://www.psychologytoday.com/articles/201503/none-the-above-overlooked-transgender-story
I can at least agree with you now and see where you're coming from, that_gamer_girl.
MY argument also didn't have any evidence so I guess I was a bit of a hypocrite.
Both links (and the studies they make reference to) are just reiterating that all of these cases aside from male and female do exist in psychology, and that we don't entirely know where does that come from at the time in the womb.
What i'm saying is that male and female are physical - biological if you prefer - diferentiations, while the other ones are psychological.
My point is that from the psychological perspective, anything can occur and anyone could be in any of those groups, since there is no scientific tests that can be made to determine "where you belong to". That is, without aknowledging the actual subject that affirms to be "X" group. Personal POVs can vary and be influenciated, and are not to be trusted.
We can't set those "mental states" to actual, physical genders. Some people believe they are animals - or want to be-. Are they actual animals (as in, foxes, dogs, etc) ?
(writting more)
-
Let's use transgender as an example.
It's been repeatedly brought up that transgenders are because they have the wrong brain. To this I say that they are abnormal and transgender is a disorder (for lack of a better word). I say this is abnormal because something is physically wrong with your brain chemistry. However, this disorder is not necessarily bad. I will never think of a transgender as "normal" but I will not treat them any different than I would [most] other people.
Same with all these -kins. Until someone shows me that this is not an anomaly within the brain, I say that you are not normal. Not bad, but not normal.
The misconceptions and the general ignorance about human sexuality and gender are a lot and are all around us.
But just one thing, there's cientific data about this topic. There are areas of the brain that are affected differently by hormones and change the fetus development.
Sexuality and gender identity aren't the same, but, there's one thing they've got in common: you can't decide about yours.
Let's get clear; if they could possibly decide, why can't you? I, myself, can't force me to be sexually atracted to other woman, or to feel like a man.
Why, if there was any other option, would anyone spend a lifetime suffering? Getting bullied in school, pointed at, made fun of?
I do not think that all the tumblr ideas about sex and gender are right, but they're mostly teens trying to find themselves.
And one thing is an histrionic teenager, and other thing is a real issue for millions of people.
Sex, obviously, is a property of living things. Male or female.
These special snowflakes seem to forget that the divide between male and female is because we need one of each to procreate, not differentiate socially. Each has their role. (Yeah, gender roles. They fuckin exist and it's worked just fine before tumblr.)
It's about furthering the species, not being unique. You know what happens when you're unique? Your fucking bloodline dies out, that's what.
It's not confusing. If someone wants you to call them a she, do it. If someone wants you to call them a he, do it.
If someone wants to be called they/them, do it
It's not confusing, you're making it confusing for yourself
There are people struggling with gender identity, which is a real thing, and you don't understand it because you're not one of them .
But can I just point out that it's awesome that we've come far enough that "white" is the thing, instead of "Saxon" or "British" or "Italian" or "Frankish" or "Irish"?
Let's try to widen it all the way out to "human," shall we?
I see you don't.
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Let's use transgender as an example.
It's been repeatedly brought up that transgenders are because they have the wrong brain. To this I say that they are abnormal and transgender is a disorder (for lack of a better word). I say this is abnormal because something is physically wrong with your brain chemistry. However, this disorder is not necessarily bad. I will never think of a transgender as "normal" but I will not treat them any different than I would [most] other people.
Same with all these -kins. Until someone shows me that this is not an anomaly within the brain, I say that you are not normal. Not bad, but not normal.
(sorry if my english is bad, not my native language).
I have a selfie with 800+ comments...
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TLDR - I'm perplexed by people's inability to grasp definitions >.<
Also like
Chill with the LGBTphobe stuff plox
PC MASTER RAAAAAAAACE (joke.exe)
...
So you're basically saying you're anti-not being a jackass? okay
Remember this?
Sure, that was simpler, but it was a wrong world view.
Could you please point where can i find those phychology studies you refer to?
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2951011/
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Let's use transgender as an example.
It's been repeatedly brought up that transgenders are because they have the wrong brain. To this I say that they are abnormal and transgender is a disorder (for lack of a better word). I say this is abnormal because something is physically wrong with your brain chemistry. However, this disorder is not necessarily bad. I will never think of a transgender as "normal" but I will not treat them any different than I would [most] other people.
Same with all these -kins. Until someone shows me that this is not an anomaly within the brain, I say that you are not normal. Not bad, but not normal.