Just the US, doing what we do best

But don't play the Nazi Germany anthem

Yeah i get it but just admit the mistake I assume the Association apologized so accept it and just play tennis. No need to be outraged.

They want to forget their history so they can repeat it, guys.

Not the same. Russia isn't ashamed of its Stalin. Or its nazism. Or its natives killed. They're actually proud of it. And not stopping it in few more centuries either.

I would not be proud of Stalin. He did kill anywhere from 18 to 45 million of his own people you know.

@ogchucknorris that's complete bullshit, most germans are super obsessed with remembering the dark parts of their history, to a point where other countries call them cucks. It's just neo nazis and very right wing partys who want this to end.

german boy here. listen guys, most of us from germany are ashamed because our past. often when we speak with someone from another country we get yelled at "NAZIII" "HEIL HITLERR" etc.. it's annoying. because.. you know.. most of us are born AFTER this whole stuff.. we didn't choose to be born in germany. most of us don't lived in the time where this s*it happend.. we can't do anything about this stuff, but everyone from other countrys seems to don't get this. a huge piece of the humans who lived in this time are dead or old as f*ck now.. not teenagers or young adults. it's annoying that everyone seems to forget about this stuff.. they just yell at us for stuff we didn't even do (most of us nowadays didn't lived in this time). example: everytime when i join a multilanguage game (like a mmorpg) and someone finds out i'm german, the chat is full of insults and "heil hitler" yelling. thats annoying. why is it like this? what this people who do this think they achieve? serious question.

IDK I understand being white and american my friends who are Latinos think im already racist. They found out my ancestors were slave holders and oh boyy did i get insulted for that even though latinos enslaved and brutally killed more slaves than we did but whatever. Just forget it be proud to be german as i am proud to be american.

Now ill take the bait if they wanted to remember it so well why have they banned anything nazish and if you are caught doing anything related to nazis you have a huge possibility of being thrown in jail.

it's banned, because it's bad. we don't want that anyone is a nazi, and because nazi's use these symbols for their ideology, it's banned. it's not because we want to forget it or something. it's even legal to use the symbols if you use it for teaching history or in films etc. we want that every human have the same rights, and if someone is using nazi symbols, thats against the basic idea of "every human is the same and have the same rights".. normal people don't would / want to use these symbols, but nazi's do. so its illegal.

why i get downvoted for explain something?

I don't know

The symbols are not bad they were high jacked and used for a bad purpose. All their symbols were stolen from other historical things. Like for example the heil the eagle were all stolen from the Roman empire. The swastika used to mean good luck. The symbols are not bad and to ban it saying you are preventing future nazis is ignorant. They will use different symbols people who wanna be bad will be bad. The reason why Nazism rose is due to people shaming Germany and throwing everything on them. If people keep shaming Germany for their past then history is bound to repeat itself regardless of the precautions you try to take.

@ogchucknorris yes, they were high-jacked, but the thing is.. most of the humans connect these symbols with the nazi's and not with the symbolic meaning these symbols had in the past before the nazi's. and it's a fact that nazi's use them for their ideology. do you really want that? i don't.

yeah but like i said skin heads will be skin heads. The key is trying to change it at the root. I know that Nazism rose to an extreme high due to the suppressing of their past and the shaming of Germans. Preventing that is the key. For example why do you think both skin heads and kkk memberships have risen in america drastically? Maybe due to minorities blaming white people for all their issues.

the problem is.. it's not that easy to change humans. you can't just say "now, people..now you guys are not nazi's anymore" ..that don't works. and because we don't really have a solution, the guys on top have banned the symbol etc.. thats a try to fix the problem a little bit. but such stuff is often done by countrys.. they bann not the really causes of the problems, the bann other stuff who are present as a side effect.. this will not work. but thats how countrys / guys on top think / work.. it's sad but.. it's often like that.

ok so do you agree that banning symbols does not work? Also I think you need to find why these groups are rising. Usually it is due to people feeling pushed down and not able to speak. I know our groups rose due to both discrimination from black and Mexican groups because they feel discriminated against. It is like a viscous cycle here. Maybe you guys have them due to you taking in 1 million Syrian refugees which have created a mess of problems.

"ok so do you agree that banning symbols does not work? " - yes. it's not working, but we do it because.. otherwise it maybe would look like we don't do anything (in the eyes of germans).. don't know. the problem is.. everyone here at germany knows that nazi's are a problem, but no one really knows how to solve the problem. so some guys on top think about what they can do to solve the problems, and this results in stuff like banning symbols, books and other stuff.

Instead of not talking about it, you let them say fucked up shit, then ostracize them, thus letting them know that it's fucked up.

the problem with "let them say fucked up shit" is, that some humans don't know it beter and believe these nazi's and what they say.. childs / teenagers etc. don't know it beter in some cases.. and if you now let nazi's talk without do anything against them, they gather more humans around them with lies and stuff (look at the ISIS crap, teenagers believe them and fly to them, just to get the fact that they have been lied). this would not fix the problem, it would maybe make it even worse in my opinion. but yes, we should talk with teenagers and other people about this topics and explain to them why this is bad & not really good for us all. if we don't talk about this topics, it's not fixing the problem.. it's making it just worse because no know anything about this kind of problem.

If i remember correctly you are from Germany and forgive me if im wrong but In the U.S. we of course have free speech and with that comes the right to speak on what you want. People have the right to be racist we cannot stop that. To do so would be to take away another humans rights which goes against our constitution. So unfortunately there is very little that we can do other then to work towards equality. Both whites and minorities need to stop blaming each other and people need to work together.

It's no use Chuck, these people have no basic human rights. Their rights are not imbued by their creator, but instead given by their government. As a country they never had to fight for their rights, and so take them for granted. I say we let Islamic apologists run roughshod over their country and see how they like Sharia law. Maybe then they won't take freedom of speech for granted. Because when the government can decide that certain speech is illegal, no speech is safe.

^ ^ ^ ;-)

@ogchucknorris
here in germany, you have the right of free speech.. as long you don't harm anyone with it. every human have based on our rules the same equality, and if someone try to ignore / break these rules, thats where free speech ends and hate etc. begins.

p.s: sorry that i can't really argue with you on a good basis because my english is not really good. because my bad english, my sentences are not very complex / sometimes a little bit "weird". sorry about that^^ normaly i stay away from discusions about politics / complex topic's because my bad english.. so if you don't understand anything i say, or it reads weird..pls tell me^^ then i can try to write it new / make it more clear.

no problem at all with the english. But pardon me I must say your free speech isnt very free is it. Every man is entitled to their own opinion and no man can strip them of it regardless of how disagreeable it is.

Free speech has no caveats, because if there's a caveat it isn't free. Oh, and you can't harm anybody with speech, the very idea is stupid.

And obviously they don't have the same rules for everybody. Because what you're telling me is that some people deserve to have their right to free speech taken away.

@ogchucknorris example : if you hold every day a talk in public about how an asshole Patrick from your school is because he is coming from another country.. would you think, this is free speech? if you just tell random peoples lies about Patrick & spread hate in the direction of Patrick just because you don't like that he is coming from another country (as an example)? i would not think this is free speech, i would think this is less free speech and more just spreading hate against groups of persons / countrys. thats not, what free speech is for in my opinion.
@chakun
no, thats not what i mean'd. but if you forbid the use of specific symbols who are used by groups of persons who do illegal stuff, thats not taken away the right of free speech. i don't said we should take away rights from some people.

Is it speech? Because if it's speech then it is free.

speech can hurt too. ever thought about the Psychological damage you can do to a human with speech? mobbing, hate etc? that can do lots of damage inside a human.. not visible on the outside.. but on the inside.. on the emotional level.. mental damages. do you really want to allow people to hurt & break peoples in this way.. just because free speech? often people say "but..i have the right of free speech!".. but all they do is hurting other people with their talking.. if you say your opinion, thats free speech.. but if you spread just hate.. that gets us no where.

No, spreading hate is free speech too. Freedom isn't safe, dude, it's the most dangerous thing you can do. I'm not saying to not call Nazis assholes, because they are, but once you enact force against people you disagree with, you have lost the arguement.

But you are advocating taking away their freedom of speech. If they can't say what they want, then their speech is not free. Therefore you have taken their rights from them.

I think it is free speech even if you are spreading hate the issue I have though is the definition of hate gets blurred. For instance not using proper pronouns for one gender or saying that you are against transgenders could be considered by some as hate speech. Calling people facist and nazis could be considered hate speech especially when there is no proof they are but to a lot it is seen as ok. We cannot hide behind the government when we hear these the best thing to do is to suck it up and become strong. I mean I am made fun of and insulted daily I just have to suck it up.

first - i think i just can't explain my thoughts good enough in english to explain what i mean. i don't want to say "take away rights from people".. every human are equality with every other human. you should not take away rights from anyone. i try to explain it in another way (sorry if it fails, my english is not really good enough to get my thoughts 100% out in text).
here in germany, you can say "what you want".. the problem is.. if you hurt someone with this, let's say you mobbing someone extremly hard, so hard that they need a psychologist to fix their mental issues you produced with your mobbing.. then you have problems and can get sued for it. and if you stand in the city, and yell every day "we should burn all jews in our country!! help me do it!!".. thats too a probem. you spread hate with this... thats human contemptuously (i hope the word is correct) and you can get too problems for this. you can talk what you want.. but you will get trouble for some stuff thats "not okay".

1) Everyone has the right to freely express and disseminate his or her opinion in words, writing and images, and to inform himself without hindrance from generally accessible sources. Freedom of the press and the freedom to broadcast and broadcast are guaranteed. A censorship does not take place.
2) These rights find their limits in the provisions of the general laws, the legal provisions for the protection of youth, and the right of personal honor.
3) Art and science, research and teaching are free. The freedom of doctrine does not absolve from fidelity to the constitution.
thats the laws. and 2# takes places if you break other laws.
and now please stop downvoting me just because i tell you guys the laws here in germany..i can't change them. i just tell you guys how the laws in germany works-.- it's a dick move to downvote me for that.

Im not idk who is but whatever. I know that it is not right to harass other people and stuff but how do you control that. Do you think taking away free speech from people who harm others in going to solve those kinds of problems. My issue with it mainly stems from we dont know where "hate speech" begins and ends. many people can be mentally harmed from things that in no way shape or form were meant to intentionally harm. People in my mind choose to be offended. To take away the right of free speech from those who offend others is not toughening the people but doing the opposite. The best way to deal with the situation is to allow people to say what they want but teach your people to suck it up be strong and to not put so much into what others think.

i already told you that i don't want to take away the right of free speech. maybe it sounded like that, but i don't mean'd it this way. and yes, it's difficult.. the "where hate speech start and end"..this is a big discusion here in germany at the current moment. the problem here is, everyone have another oppinion on this.. but there are already people who got sued because hate speech. example: some teenager wrote in facebook bad about his teacher.. PEWPEW..the teenager got sued and the teacher won. it's kind of a problem.. yes. the problem is just.. some people really get mobbed.. and can't maybe do anything about it.. and really get mental issues because this.. thats not okay. but yes.. where it starts and ends.. thats the problem because (imho) its objective / everyone think different about this topic.

Ok my bad on taking free speech. Also I just wanna say that is a problem for me. I know some people get mobbed but how many cases have occurred because someone said some bad stuff about another person? I just dont think that this is a solution to the problem is all.

take away the free speech is no solution, but if someone really produce damage..they should get punished / penalize for it. but to decide who get punished and who not, you need to really look at every specific case.. otherwise people who just said something and don't really produced damage to someone get problems.
p.s: it's cool that i seem now to have my little own hater who downvotes every post i make :) *waves to hater* hello hater :)! love you too.

I know i had one too who followed me around and downvoted everything in fact it got so bad i took 2 weeks off and now im fine. Ok my question is what determines the damage they sustained for instance how would you determine if someone really did have mental issues due to bullying.

i fear i can't really answer this question, because i'm not educated / schooled to decide such stuff. i wouldn't really want to decide something like this because other peoples who learned as an example psychology would know it better then me. if i would decide this, i would maybe decide wrong (based on my lack of knowledge on this topic). i think such things should get decided by people who are really educated in this kind of topic.

that is fair enough. I guess we can both agree to disagree.

I think we can agree that there is no civilized country in the world with 100% free speech, there are exceptions everywhere. Obscenities, incitements, statement of (some) false facts can be prohibited. In Germany you could publish a book with descriptions of child pornography, but not say Heil Hitler in public, it's the other way round in the USA. However, there is probably only one civilized country at present where the president would call a judge not ruling in his favor a "so-called judge" or would hold him responsible for any future terrorist attack. Or call the press criticizing him "enemy of the people". Not even Putin does that. Maybe this Philippine guy Duerte, but I don't think they are that civilized. So fine, nazis enjoy more free speech in America, as do pervs in Germany. Whatever...