Equal

I’d have to disagree. While I agree with the spirit of your stance- and that people should be allowed to make choices and should be treated equally- there really isn’t such a thing. Equal of course doesn’t mean “same” as not only are there numerous areas where treating both men and women the same isn’t practical or just, and basing treatment off of the present and not the past doesn’t create equality as by simple luck of birth right some people are disadvantaged due to past actions benefiting future generations. Unless we “reset” things to zero that isn’t practical. For example: one person is born in your country, another is not. The one born there is given citizenship by default, the one not is made to take tests and extra steps. If you make horn citizens do the same- what do you do if they fail? Deport them? That’s not equal as they have no support or life in a foreign land. But do you just let anyone become a citizen? As for job need....

Isn’t it relative? For instance- A billionaire would likely feel their single friend needed a ceo job more than an equally qualified factory worker with a family. The factory worker is used to living on meager wages and is obviously getting by. His bills are much lower and so finding a job to pay them is easier. The billionaires friend would suffer greatly giving up thins he’s used to like yachts and fine food. He wouldn’t know how to survive on a meager wage and lacks many life skills because of his pampered life, so can’t care for himself. For him, with his $4,000 a month car payment and $10,000+ house payment, his $20,0000 alimony payments- he’d have a lot of trouble finding a job to cover his bills and would fall in to a tax debt he couldn’t repay in his life working for even $200k a year. He’d be garnished in to poverty. So need is a very relative thing.

Lastly- the idea of allowing people to hire on an honor system of “best for the job” is great. I agree with the principle. But how do you prevent abuses? Like a company where women are only secretaries? How do we know wether every female candidate who interviewed for anything more was a worse hire? Do we look at resumes? But what about the interview? Maybe they have a worse resume but interviewed better and answered functional job questions better? Maybe they were a better “fit” for the office culture? Of course “culture” and “fit” are key words. It’s just as easy to dismiss more qualified applicants by saying they were not a “good fit” at which point it’s your word against theirs- and knowing who they FEEL they’ll get along with and work well with is impossible beyond their word, however arguing against them is a good way to prove you would be a bad fit as you obviously don’t agree and conflict on things- as evidenced by your arguing. So how do you enforce real discrimination?

@mrscollector I think that’s a sweet sentiment but it requires employer to make hiring decisions based on your personal life which can be messy. As an example if two people are in basically the same situation but one has the support of their church and you decide to hire the other it can be misconstrued as religious discrimination. Its best for employers to make dispassionate hiring decisions solely on merit.

Jeez @guest_ do you type these comments on your phone? If so can you do push-ups on your massive thumbs?

Lastly- dating the same race or religion. Those are tough. People like what they like. To me- the word race or religion is the key factor there. Maybe you like dark hair, slim figures, light body hair, certain facial features. Maybe you like light hair, tall, larger people with thick facial hair? Maybe your religion is about kindness and compassion, or about discipline and dedication? There are certain races that tend to have certain traits. Not all members but those combinations are more prevalent. Certain people or cultures tend to have certain values more commonly. If that’s the case maybe you date a lot of Armenians or Koreans or Germans or Polynesians. That’s what you like. Or you prize certain values. But when we make it specifically about race or religion- discounting good people who may otherwise fit our ideals for a mate- it’s easier to call it racist. Since people of a race can vary so greatly, a race tells us nothing but what they MIGHT be like or are more likely to be like.

The determination of who they really are or what they look like comes down to an individual level. So that to me is where the distinction between racism and preference in features exists. It is of course simpler to say “I don’t date Swedish men” because you don’t like light hair or tall skinny folks- but not all Swedes are like that, so while simpler to say, it is either an incomplete truth or prejudiced at the very least. Faith is a little harder because to many it isn’t about the values, but about participating in the same secret handshakes and rain dances, or an idea that the afterlife is segregated and a vengeful and petty god sends good people to be tortured for eternity for facing the wrong direction when they kneel, or eating with a spoon on the third Tuesday after the chosen one got a perm. To each their own, and I don’t seek to take that away from people. It’s hard to live someone you think is going to burn in hell I suppose. So I can’t say much about not dating outside...

Ones religion as I lack the zealotry to believe that a higher power would cast out a saint on earth for forgetting to chip in a $5 every Sunday, or for ordering the wrong sandwich a few times. So that one is what it is. Everything is silly to someone, and it isn’t my place to judge. I may very well be burning for eternity despite my best efforts due to my often questionable taste in sandwiches and propensity to avoid large buildings with symbols on the sides.

@guest_ for your first comment on citizen ship I feel it is right to ask people who are going to any foreign country to live to take a test or at the least show some sign they wish to live, work, pay taxes, live by that countries rules and try to learn the spoken and written language. I know if I planned to live the rest of my life in any other country I would do the same.
I don't consider it a birth right to get instant citizenship or luck I think it something that should be done because if we are never given citizenship to the place we were born than why would anyone ever try to receive citizenship it will just make us roam around and at will the country we are in will have the right to just kick us out.
Citizenship is more than saying this is where I live it is saying I have a RIGHT to be here I was born here or I earned my right.to be here and you can't make me leave.
I do think it shouldn't be so hard to get it but if you get one and become a criminal it should be revoked.

@guest_ for your 2nd comment
To say a billionaire would lose his things and not know how to live poor is a 1st world problem. All those lovely things is a want and all the things you want is not what you need.
I want a 2 level house and a full fridge with 3 cars and pocket money like I had when I was growing up but we had that due to hard work from both my parents and grandmother. But me, my husband, and daughter don't NEED all that to live. We NEED 1 car our little apartment and food that we make a menu for and buy a week's worth of food at a time.
That worker has may already have a job sustaining his family but he worked hard to get where he is and where he wants to be and for what little he has unlike the other who has friends. And I believe in only giving higher jobs to people already in the company. And only offering to outsiders if no one wants the job.

@guest_ As for the last one.
I do believe all things should be considered not separate.
Do they seem like they get along with the other workers
Do they need the job and why
Will the job be to hard for them
What is thier work history
In the interview did they show they could handle the work
Are they willing to learn if needed
What was the cause of losing their last jobs
And so on so many things can change depending on the job but you get the best of it.
Not once should anyone use the fact that they have mostly one type of race or one type of sex so they need someone that is a different type to judge if someone gets the job. Or should they only give the job to only one type of race or sex.
Now I will admit there is always going to be small exceptions like say in Disneyland Tiana should be played by a black female and Snow White by a white female. And in movies if the part is for a type of race or sex or body types than it should be played by one, same for all movies, Tv, and so on.

@scatmandingo- mostly on my phone. This has all been on my phone. How does one move a mountain? One stone at a time. Determination... or boredom. Incredible motivators.

@mrscollector- but what right does being born somewhere give you over anyone else? How does a fetus earn anything? We are born where we are born simply by our parents actions. People don’t choose their parents either. Another example of where “equal” can be skewed. How many people are given things they never truly earn? How many people have incredible potential but can’t fully reach it simply because they were born somewhere they were unable to meet the opportunities? What sin did they commit as an unborn child or baby to make them less advantaged than someone else who just popped out in better circumstances? To be equal, wouldn’t things be on merit? Wouldn’t we have to earn things ourselves and not be born with things others don’t have?

For first world problems- who is to judge? Again, it’s relative. The worst pain you’ve ever felt and the worst pain I’ve ever felt may not be the same. One may be arguably “worse,” but won’t most people argue the pain they themselves can feel is worse as to them it is a pain they can relate to versus a pain that can’t know? By virtue of being on the internet we are already amongst the elites on earth. The “developed world” is the 1% of the population. If you go to the slums of India or the deep jungles, to places where people barely get enough to eat and don’t have clean water, they would call not being able to pay rent a first world problem. Even in our own countries the homeless survive on much less than us- so we don’t even need a room to sleep in. What is “need” really? It’s all just the difference between “surviving” and “living” and who gets to decide what the basic level of need is? They would very likely base it off their own lifestyle wouldn’t they? Very relative.

Lastly to the point- when we speak in terms of things like “need” the determination is based on our own values. These values tend to differ greatly in between cultures, people. The power in such a system exists with whoever makes the determination of what these things mean. It’s for this very reason people try to “help their own” as whichever group they identify with. It’s a struggle for control in hopes that ones views are represented as the de facto norm. I’m a true system of equality, there isn’t a dominant or default perspective. Various groups are equally represented and included in the system. It’s mirrored throughout this conversation- for instance the idea that being born in a place would give any more reason to call it home than someone not born there but wanting to live there. The difference is the second person chose to want to be there while the first didn’t have a choice to begin. So what is the rational? It’s human. The fact that people coming in means less for....

Those already there. Less space and resources, more competition for jobs, it means possible changes to culture and who is shaping the “rules” and culture of the area. But if equally is given by need- wouldn’t those from terrible circumstances have greater need for refuge in a “better” place? Wouldn’t those with first world problems in the developed world still be fine if they had a little less and the transplants had so much more for what the locals were losing? If it’s equal- wouldn’t the competition for jobs be a non issue? Those with the greatest ability and suitability would be hired, and society as a while would benefit from more workers to choose from? True equality is not something people often want when it means giving up things they cherish for others. That’s what it always comes down to. Men against women, religions, races- fighting to keep as much benefit for themselves as possible. But the world is a sealed sphere. For everything we have, someone else must do without.

It’s the nature of compromise. The essence of having to live with other people equally is to have to compromise. History and current events show us it is easier when we simply find ways to reduce the number of people who are equal to us, or make others enter lopsided compromises. It’s not really sharing if I have the power to take the whole cake, but I “only” take 2/3, give you the other 3rd, and call it charity that I left you any at all since I could have taken the whole thing, or someone else only left a slice of their cake to share with another and left a whole 3rd for you. So really, here on this or most other boards all you will find is first world problems. There are people who don’t even have electricity to use a computer if they could afford one. But that doesn’t mean I don’t have bills and can’t have a bad day or a good one does it?

If my customer were acting like a bitch, I'd be a bitch back (I'll still do my job and smile while following the rules very strictly)
If they were nice and polite, I'd go easy on them and give them an actually smile
We don't treat people the same cause they don't deserve it

Yeah- I’d have to disagree as well. I’ve not only worked customer service jobs where I treated people differently, but I’ve seen it when I was the customer, how two people can get very different service based not just on how they act, but on the servers mood, or even for unknown reasons that seem by looking to be based off things like the persons age, race, how they look, etc. if you want to test it out, go to a high end shop or car dealer in cheap work out clothes then go back in formal business wear groomed like an executive or executive. It won’t always work but I a lot of the time you’ll see a big difference in how you’re treated.

Think about what equal treatment would look like if you could snap your fingers and make it so. Probably something like robots. Not for me!