I think it's good too. The less people being forced into sacrificing their lives the better. The only real loss here is for the weirdos who wanted to join anyways.
I am fully aware of what happens to countries without a military. There are indeed some necessary evils that must be made. That doesn't mean I can't be critical of those evils though. The better option here is to convince the citizens as to why they should allow their rights to be stripped in order to defend their country. It's not exactly realistic, but that's the moral approach.
And if we narrow down to convincing trans people to die for their country, we could better narrow it down to trans people being forced to die for the citizens of said country. Now remember that trans people are one of the most disliked minorities in the U.S....
No one in america is being forced into the military except for fuck ups getting to choose between service and jail and its still a choice at that point. 99% of people that join the military here know exactly what the fuck they are doing and know the risks and the rules.
The U.S. military is indisputably the most moral military of it's caliber in the history of the world.
We are an all volunteer force with no obligation to accept anyone we feel would hinder our combat effectiveness or our peacetime efficiency.
Nobody's rights are stripped away, we agree to give them up for the duration of our contract in exchange for the privilege of serving and a lifetime's worth of hard-earned benefits.
You seem to be willfully ignorant of how we function.
@bethorien "Go to war or go to jail" is a thing of the past. It's very difficult for criminals to apply, no reason to press them into service when we have plenty of volunteers
Famousone, you seem to be a parody of a patriotic person. I have difficulty telling if you are serious with your claims or not. It's not even important if you are the most moral child rapist to ever exist. You can be the most moral rapist anyone has ever imagined. That doesn't make you moral. It makes you not as horrible.
As for agreeing to give away your rights, that's impossible. Rights can never be given away. If your rights are ever made unavailable to you evem by your own will, then your rights are being violated. You can choose not to eat if you want. But it is immoral and a violation of your rights for someone else to decide you don't get to eat even if you agree.
You're calling me a parody? Listen to yourself! Men and women of all walks of life choose to stand together in defense of our nation and her interests, and you compare us to rapists?
There is no moral child rapists, but we are not criminals that go and victimize innocents to satisfy our own base urges, that's the exact opposite of what we are.
We kill those animals, not emulate them.
Well mostly you go into countries with loads of oil, bomb the shit out of them for false and constructed reasons and still think you're doing a favour to the world. And not accepting transgenders in the military in your country means you are excluding a minority of the only chance to get affordable education and healthcare. But excluding minorities from health, wealth, freedom and education has a long tradition in your country, so I guess that's just another fantastic part of your "culture".
I'm back. It was a short one today.
We are all over the world, regardless of oil.
9/11 wasn't an inside job.
Saddam had WMDs and nuclear facilities, nevermind his imperialist and genocidal ambitions.
ISIS, Iran, and related groups are actively trying to destroy everyone different from them.
Hardly "false and constructed", no?
The military is not the only means to getting an affordable education, Trans people ought to be disqualified from service anyways simply due to hormone dependence and mental illness throughout the group.
We used to discriminate against minorities, we killed eachother to correct that, now they are prptected by political correctness.
Bullets do not care about such things.
@famousone is not a parody. From what I can tell he truly believes in patriotism and defending his country; he is a good guy. However, he does like to ignore the parts of reality that don’t line up to his vision.
For instance, Saddam didn’t have WMDs, leading up to the invasion Blix stated that there were none and we found none after occupation. This is easy to confirm by just googling what WMDs we found. The answer is zilch.
We do tend to invade places that are near oil but we don’t want it for ourselves. The US imports most of its oil from Canada. What we want is control of the oil going into Asia where the “bad guys” are.
He also believes that terrorism is a credible threat to the US and that he is part of a shield around the country. Terrorism is demoralizing but not really all that dangerous.
Oh, and @spiderwoman, rights can be waived. We do it all the time. An example is when you get a drivers license you waive your 4th and 5th amendment rights in regard to driving under the influence of chemicals. If you didn’t then they wouldn’t be able to compel a breathalyzer.
To clarify some points- the United States military does not give the choice of criminal sentence or forced enlistment. Except for the Navy, all branches have specific prohibitions to such acts, and recruiters are not allowed by law to participate in criminal justice activities in any capacity beyond those of a normal person (witness, expert, etc.) In extraordinary circumstances exceptions could be made, but it isn’t a standard or peace time option. Further- the US military is comprised of some of the finest men and women alive, who proudly and willingly give their service and possibly their lives for their country. You are never forced to serve in the military, giving slaves guns is not a good idea in general. You are bound to your word and that is the extent of your obligation- to uphold a willing oath as an adult. There are bad days and good, and like any career there are aspects that frustrate or wear at you, but you are not a prisoner. You CAN waive rights. 5th amendment, the...
... right to an attorney, to remain silent, the right to freedom of speech, so many rights can be conditionally suspended or voluntarily given up- but you aren’t giving away any right, like any career you have made an agreement to follow a set of rules and perform a duty as described. It is your right to leave just as it is your right in free society to do many things which have potentially unpleasant consequences. Having a right does not absolve you from personal responsibility in acting on that right, and more over the thing people forget is that no right is completely unconditional, all rights carry with them responsibilities to be met, and by not meeting those responsibilities you can Involuntarily forfeit certain rights as well.
@f__uckyeahamburg Really, “But excluding minorities from health, wealth, freedom and education has a long tradition in your country” that’s precious coming from you.
Chemical weapons are WMDs.
And terrorism may be more demoralizing than anything else (unless the enemy somehow gets CBRN weapons in the nation), but I don't like the risk of letting them grow strong enough over there that they could conventionally or otherwise threaten us over here.
I much prefer going over there, stepping on the enemies' throats, and giving out flushots and checkups to civvies while I'm in town.
The only capacities I'm a shield is the miniscule chance I actually kill a terrorist on his way to the US, or if I happen to be at the right place at the right time to put my training to use.
Otherwise, I'm simply a deterrent against other enemies and ready to stand should anyone attack anyways.
Chemical weapons are WMDs. We found no chemical weapons in Iraq. Saddam used them in the 80s but destroyed his supply years before we invaded.
Going over there and stepping on throats is the best thing we can do to create terrorists. We are giving them a reason to hate us by interfering where we don’t belong.
From their point of view we have been actively pissing on them since the 40s. We need to leave the region alone and let them sort their shit out.
My sergeants say they found the damned things all the time back in the mid 00's. I've always been more inclined to believe people who've been there, done that.
The terrorists hit us at a time when we were much less involved in the region, we are in too deep to just pack up and call it quits. Obama tried, and then ISIS took over.
We leave now, and our enemies and their proxies will take over, and they won't be nearly as nice.
But they would be less likely to be our enemies. No amount of military action in the region will ever make them like us so all we can do is continue a failing and costly effort to keep the lid on. We leave and let them go back to the way they lived before we interfered we may have a chance at mutual respect of each other’s way of life.
Take Iraq as an example. Do you know where Iraq came from? I think if you look it up you will see why they aren’t very happy with white people. The fact is we started this, not them.
"People should either be caressed or crushed. If you do them minor damage they will get their revenge; but if you cripple them there is nothing they can do. If you need to injure someone, do it in such a way that you do not have to fear their vengeance."
Niccolo Machiavelli
Machiavelli said some things I like and some things I don't, but it's all realpolitik.
And we don't need to beat down the region as whole, just the enemy. The locals fear the terrorists more than we hate them. If we just dedicated wholly to wiping the murderous bastards out, they'd have had a much better shot at managing themselves. Our mistake was leaving too soon, preceded by us fighting too softly.
Thankfully the Honorable Jim Mattis has corrected that.
Exterminate the Enemy? That’s a wonderful attitude that has worked so well throughout history. And who is the Enemy? They don’t seem to wear uniforms, in fact they seem to look exactly like innocent local citizens. So how do you target the Enemy?
We have an area that has been tribal for thousands of years and we show up, draw arbitrary borders and then kill them when they don’t want to follow our rules. You have been convinced that this conflict started in 2003 and hasn’t been going for a century. They tell you that because they can’t have you understanding that it never ends until we leave.
Most of these points have been addressed in previous comments.
As for finding enemies out of uniform: Follow them when they run away, and kill the guys training them. In this case Quds Force, Iranian advisers, some Palestinian groups, and your odd merc.
Dynamic equalibrium. The illusion of progress through constant action. If the strategy you describe worked then law enforcement would have eliminated crime years ago.
One of the few things I've got less of a disagreement with trump on than normal. Pre to early mid transition transgender people tend to be in a mental state not of that which would be required be a soldier. Personally I don't see the problem with letting transgender individuals who are in what is as close to post transition into the military(taking hormones never stops but there is a point at which one is considered fully transitioned.)
People in such a finished state would (after passing the same mental health check as everyone else) find very small differences in combat effectiveness to their cis gendered counterparts. However at the moment getting a basic idea of a framework in place (which is what this is, can't get a more specific thing set up without first getting something simple and easy to mess with in place) is the best move in my opinion.
I don't think a post transition person would be allowed. They'd still rely on hormones. People with diabetes aren't allowed either. If you're in a situation where a lack of your medication can cause serious consequences they probably won't allow you in.
How is this news? Trump has been trying to push this through for at least 8 months but its been constantly blocked and is currently still in review in the Supreme Court. Sure, he's trying to get them to fast track a ruling, but what else is new?
Has anyone hear bothered to research why he is doing this? Not only do transgender people have very high rates of depression and suicide compared to the average populous, now couple the extremely high rates of depression and suicide of veterans on top of that? Bad idea in the making. they also require expensive drugs and treatment plans etc which is going to take them away from training and the battlefield. Plus then there are issues of equipment, training standards, etc... the military is a fighting force designed to fight and win, and you win a war by killing your enemy, not by having the most politically correct military
Well, he has no military experience and cites no military folks, but sure King Trashheap Hyperbole definitely has valid and worthwhile opinions on lots of areas of expertise. Absolutely.
Everytime he opens his mouth, I just want to say, ‘Sit down. No, no. Have a seat. Nooo. Nope, sit down.’ He had the speech patterns of a small child. Impossible to listen to.
And if we narrow down to convincing trans people to die for their country, we could better narrow it down to trans people being forced to die for the citizens of said country. Now remember that trans people are one of the most disliked minorities in the U.S....
We are an all volunteer force with no obligation to accept anyone we feel would hinder our combat effectiveness or our peacetime efficiency.
Nobody's rights are stripped away, we agree to give them up for the duration of our contract in exchange for the privilege of serving and a lifetime's worth of hard-earned benefits.
You seem to be willfully ignorant of how we function.
@bethorien "Go to war or go to jail" is a thing of the past. It's very difficult for criminals to apply, no reason to press them into service when we have plenty of volunteers
As for agreeing to give away your rights, that's impossible. Rights can never be given away. If your rights are ever made unavailable to you evem by your own will, then your rights are being violated. You can choose not to eat if you want. But it is immoral and a violation of your rights for someone else to decide you don't get to eat even if you agree.
There is no moral child rapists, but we are not criminals that go and victimize innocents to satisfy our own base urges, that's the exact opposite of what we are.
We kill those animals, not emulate them.
We are all over the world, regardless of oil.
9/11 wasn't an inside job.
Saddam had WMDs and nuclear facilities, nevermind his imperialist and genocidal ambitions.
ISIS, Iran, and related groups are actively trying to destroy everyone different from them.
Hardly "false and constructed", no?
The military is not the only means to getting an affordable education, Trans people ought to be disqualified from service anyways simply due to hormone dependence and mental illness throughout the group.
We used to discriminate against minorities, we killed eachother to correct that, now they are prptected by political correctness.
Bullets do not care about such things.
For instance, Saddam didn’t have WMDs, leading up to the invasion Blix stated that there were none and we found none after occupation. This is easy to confirm by just googling what WMDs we found. The answer is zilch.
We do tend to invade places that are near oil but we don’t want it for ourselves. The US imports most of its oil from Canada. What we want is control of the oil going into Asia where the “bad guys” are.
He also believes that terrorism is a credible threat to the US and that he is part of a shield around the country. Terrorism is demoralizing but not really all that dangerous.
And terrorism may be more demoralizing than anything else (unless the enemy somehow gets CBRN weapons in the nation), but I don't like the risk of letting them grow strong enough over there that they could conventionally or otherwise threaten us over here.
I much prefer going over there, stepping on the enemies' throats, and giving out flushots and checkups to civvies while I'm in town.
The only capacities I'm a shield is the miniscule chance I actually kill a terrorist on his way to the US, or if I happen to be at the right place at the right time to put my training to use.
Otherwise, I'm simply a deterrent against other enemies and ready to stand should anyone attack anyways.
Going over there and stepping on throats is the best thing we can do to create terrorists. We are giving them a reason to hate us by interfering where we don’t belong.
From their point of view we have been actively pissing on them since the 40s. We need to leave the region alone and let them sort their shit out.
The terrorists hit us at a time when we were much less involved in the region, we are in too deep to just pack up and call it quits. Obama tried, and then ISIS took over.
We leave now, and our enemies and their proxies will take over, and they won't be nearly as nice.
Take Iraq as an example. Do you know where Iraq came from? I think if you look it up you will see why they aren’t very happy with white people. The fact is we started this, not them.
Niccolo Machiavelli
And we don't need to beat down the region as whole, just the enemy. The locals fear the terrorists more than we hate them. If we just dedicated wholly to wiping the murderous bastards out, they'd have had a much better shot at managing themselves. Our mistake was leaving too soon, preceded by us fighting too softly.
Thankfully the Honorable Jim Mattis has corrected that.
We have an area that has been tribal for thousands of years and we show up, draw arbitrary borders and then kill them when they don’t want to follow our rules. You have been convinced that this conflict started in 2003 and hasn’t been going for a century. They tell you that because they can’t have you understanding that it never ends until we leave.
As for finding enemies out of uniform: Follow them when they run away, and kill the guys training them. In this case Quds Force, Iranian advisers, some Palestinian groups, and your odd merc.
People in such a finished state would (after passing the same mental health check as everyone else) find very small differences in combat effectiveness to their cis gendered counterparts. However at the moment getting a basic idea of a framework in place (which is what this is, can't get a more specific thing set up without first getting something simple and easy to mess with in place) is the best move in my opinion.
https://www.newsweek.com/donald-trump-transgender-ban-military-1231958
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-politics/transgender-military-ban-trump-judge-latest-order-colleen-kollar-kotelly-lgbt-army-a8661991.html
Everytime he opens his mouth, I just want to say, ‘Sit down. No, no. Have a seat. Nooo. Nope, sit down.’ He had the speech patterns of a small child. Impossible to listen to.