Outstanding move

It depends on your goal though, if the guy consistently gets new women it might very well be because he can't keep any of them. And maybe it's not the type of women you'd like so his strategy wouldn't work for you.

Aha! The fatal mistake that many people make. If you want to close a big sale you have to learn sales first. Learn to talk to women. Learn to ask them out. Go on dates. If they aren’t your type then don’t pursue it, but still learn HOW to do it. Then when the one you really want comes along you are prepared. Saving yourself for the right person and waiting for them are two very different things.

50/50 I’d say. To close sales you must know how to get to the point of closing- two different art forms. BUT- what kind of salesperson do you want to be? I knew a guy who could land women like crazy- he couldn’t KEEP them. He was charm and flash but he didn’t have enough substance and after awhile the pick up routine gets thin. You can use bravado and lies, you can copy the “master pick up artist” but- do you want to learn how to push buttons to manipulate women into doing what you want- or is your goal to learn to communicate and connect?

The most productive hunter can set traps, use dynamite. They often don’t care about the fish or deer or whatever they hunt. They want the catch, the ego boost, the trophy, the meat. Is that you? If you want to catch deer- ask the guy that catches the most. If you want to be friends with a deer- understand it, have it sit with you and eat with you and enjoy and choose to be with you- you’ll need to observe and interact with deer. Learn what they like and don’t, how they think and behave. And even if you just want a trophy- the hunter who understands the deer can catch one without dynamite- and respects deer enough that they usually don’t just poach them for giggles or a quick snack.

Using explosives never occurred to me. Too bad I’m off the market currently, I’d love to explore that tactic. At least until the ATF finds me.

The details depend on the woman but if you zoom out to generalities they all respond to the same thing: demonstrable sacrifice. They value a man who listens to them but they put a much higher value on that listening when the man turns off their video game or TV show to do the listening. Spending time with them is good but spending time with them when you chose to do it over seeing your friends is better. That’s why women tend to get bored of total devotion. When you don’t have anything to give up in favor of them your actions lose value.

It all there too see in romantic comedies if you look in the right place. There is usually a character in them that is competing with the protagonist. That character is written have more attractive behavior than the good guy at the beginning of the story arc. That behavior is a formula produced to elicit a response in the female audience. Emulate that formula and you can get the same response in real life.

You can’t generalize women unless you want a generalized woman. Chances are- and hopefully- you want a specific woman and not just “any or” interchangeably. In which case- how you make them feel special is dependent on the woman- and how you find out is to spend time with them- ideally for compatibility reasons your intuitive behavior coupled with some level of sincere effort out of genuine interest in them will make a connection.

Romantic comedies are a flawed source of information. You can get some IDEAS about what some common female fantasies are- but despite the popularity in male fantasy- most men don’t actually want to be tormented loner badasses who’s families were killed by a man they must now seek bloody vengeance on. To the contrary- most men want their families NOT to be killed. You must analyze what psychological mechanisms this gratifies- common male fantasies most often involve power- being “John Wick” who has the power to be festered and admired- the strength and dedication to deal with any adversity, and the power to “avenge” wrongs done to him. In real life these “wrongs” are usually less “murdered dog” and more- noisy neighbor or jerky boss, societal judgments based on status etc.

Romantic comedies seldom have realistic arcs and even less so have any epilogue- and if so it is almost always to the furthest side of improbability and involving circumstances beyond your control like a major benefactor or lucky break materializing by chance. There aren’t epilogues because there isn’t a future- and if there is it is not worthy of screen time and compares poorly in scope to the film as you can’t just keep “topping” or repeating things- especially extreme gestures and flash mobs.

I say without malice or insult intended that I find your conclusion on sacrifice flawed. There is certainly a COMPONENT of sacrifice (in relative measure) that has endearing qualities- most partners want to at least on occasion be more or most important in a persons life- and as a general rule, yes- a sacrifice of nothing or what is seen as no value has no meaning.

However women are, largely, just people. Not so different from men at the core. Most humans want to feel appreciated, interesting, attractive, intelligent, they want support and to build or live a certain life or lifestyle. They have core values and priorities in life, interests and passions. They generally want to feel respected and to have some sense of control or ability to have some direction over their lives.

But beyond the General we get to specifics. Some women are very practical, some less so. Most value ambition and confidence and assertiveness to varying levels- just like men. The more “traditional” and staunch a woman is in her definitions of gender roles- the more clear cut expectations are- but most women- like most men- no matter how progressive do have some concept of gender roles and relationships rooted in traditions.

So a strong feminist who doesn’t like “overbearing” men may still expect you to do certain things or may be put off by the idea you like to be pegged or wear dresses or whatever. The “Stepford wife” might expect you to run the house and make all the decisions but that doesn’t mean you won’t get in trouble for deciding to go to a strip club. Or not. It all depends.

Women are a group- a woman is a person. If you want to attract A woman- you must make HER feel attracted- and the women you met at the Death Metal concert giving out handies in the alley and the woman you met who’s a posh down town lawyer might be very different in what they want. Or they could literally be the same woman.

One woman might get mad at you for spending time with friends over her, but if you blow off your friends for her she might lose all respect or attraction or sexual attraction to you. She might hate that you play Warcraft and always be on you about it- but if you quit because she did... she might walk away. You have to look at the ROOT and not just the surface. MOST women probably will agree that blowing off your wedding or the birth of your child for your buddies isn’t ok- but beyond those “do or die” moments... she’s not usually looking for sacrifice. She’s looking for someone who has a life if she has a life- because she can’t live her life if you’re just a dog who is always waiting at home for her at her convenience...

Unless that is what this woman wants. Some don they want a warm body in bed, help with house work, and some light convo and sex when they feel like it- without worry of VD or having to “train” you on what satisfies them or other dangers. They want a dog that can do complex tasks and be intimate- but can be taken in public. Just like some men want that too.

You both generally need a life beyond each other- and you both need to be able to keep some degree of that life- but the life you have alone also has to be one they fit into.

Who are you? Before you worry about who she is- figure out who YOU are. Got it? Ok. Good. Now be that person. If you’re the person that you are- the person you should be with will be attracted to that person. You may have to be the best version of that person- and if you are attracted to them and like them- you’ll probably naturally put some effort into compromise and getting to know them- and doing things they’ll like. Boom. There you go. Now you have a partner. Easy? Not really. Simple? Yes. Be the best version of you, find the person that likes that.

Age can be a major factor- really maturity- but in the general maturity has greater odds with greater age. A 17,19,22yo old woman or man likely isn’t in a place where they are thinking of of really able to “settle down.” Young people usually want fun. Drink, party, go on adventures and have new experiences. Take in all the shit that to them is still novel and seemingly endlessly entertaining. “Find themselves” and often- exercise trauma and baggage and stress in unhealthy ways because they don’t realize they have these issues yet, or haven’t developed the healthy coping mechanisms or sought the help to be able to deal with them in healthy ways. Hormones and immaturity collide to produce a human being that isn’t in full control of its emotions- can’t be anywhere close- and is still experiencing new ones and what they feel is often very powerful or confusing- and high hormones escalate these feelings.

In GENERAL when you are young- you’ll find more people are about the superficial. Hormones pulling you to “hot” partners, wanting thrills that adults call “unstable” or “damaged” destructive games you are “over” but to many immature people are exciting, new, games are THE way it is done.

Flashy fun. It’s all about taking chances and what is interesting and exciting and gratifying. Great sex and never being bored and a feeling that consequences are far away and blurry. Older folks tend to see their windows to having kids and family and a home and the life hey want closing. They have careers and other things that take time and attention and they don’t want to have to have relationship games and upkeep as a full time job. They are less likely to think when you buy out the bar and look like a model and thinking that you’re “cool” and fun” and more likely to think that you have poor impulse control, bad fiscal habits, that you are narcissistic and immature and not a serious partner.

That is why commonly guys who have bad luck in high school or youth- but people always tell them how “great” they are and that they at least aren’t “unattractive”- guys who might wonder “if that’s true- if there’s nothing wrong with me... why am I so single? Why can’t I hook up?” Because nothing is wrong with you you numpty.

A relationship and a hook up usually have 2 different goals. But the less mature people are- the closer those goals are in general. To the immature- it’s all about the moment. The romantic comedy- kisses in the rain and overpowering emotions that make you quit your job for a person or be disinherited by your stuffy family or whatever. Busting in to weddings last minute and objecting. All that crap.

Immature love is fire. It’s hot- intense. It starts with a spark, flashy and with heat, and it engulfs you totally and overwhelmingly. It sets off fireworks and it destroys things. It gets you banned from venues for banging in the closet, arrested for tagging her name on a bridge, in debt for fantasy weekends and overblown dates and gifts. It consumes you and drives you almost mad.

Mature love like a calm lake. It’s cooling. It’s serene. It’s silence and stillness and depth. It just is- and it is a feeling of contentment and wholeness. It’s slow but powerful, changing but constant. They are TOTALLY different feelings and ways of interacting.

But no matter how old we get- we often still harbor elements of immaturity and immature fantasy. Most men watch porn, fantasize about porn stars. Fantasies like women who spend their time and effort to make themselves look their best and sexiest always- who are as hungry and ready for sex as you are- any time any way- or if not hungry, at least willing. Women who are most concerned (or through natural self aligned to) more or less existing to please and to fulfill that which you desire. But...

Most men- especially mature men... still fantasize about that- but don’t want it. You’re not likely to find a woman who only argues or has an opinion when you think it would be cute to. So given the choice between a living sexual doll and an equal partner- most men will take the woman who is their equal in real life- and save the woman who is at their call for fantasy...

Or affair. For all the men who tell the secretary or whoever that they are “totally going to leave their bitchy wife for them...” few do. Men cheat... cheat. Not leave for the secretary. That’s one version of living out fantasy- to have the woman, a real imperfect woman, that you love and chose to live with- and others on the side who fill those roles that by nature your woman doesn’t or can’t.

Like a child drawing the perfect car. The homer mobile so to speak- is the often held male fantasy. It doesn’t exist in physics. You can’t have the ultimate 4wd off road, towing monster that also gets 100mpg but is also an armored attack vehicle, but can fly, and also can beat an F1 car at the race track. You can have all those things yes- but not in one car. That’s why many people have multiple cars no? You can’t carry much gravel in your Porsche- but your truck isn’t as fun to drive and the top doesn’t come down on nice days.

So to examine fantasy- look to porn and porn habits- there is enough porn that you can find “the perfect” person or the “perfect scene.” Ok. But.. you may have favorites and old classics to fall back on... but who finds the “one perfect” porn star and ONLY sticks there? Don’t most people jump around? Maybe within a “type” or “fetish” etc- but perhaps one week it’s all about big butts and another it’s chests- one week it’s about fit and petite and another it’s about vavavoom and so forth?

That’s just PORN! Self gratification and expression of sexual desire. That isn’t about what’s for breakfast or picking out couches, choosing a home or how to budget money or who’s family to see on what holiday. We can’t even find and stick to one “perfect” person to get our rocks off to in our fantasies. Fantasies change. Fantasies are all about self gratification. Relationships with humans generally aren’t- because even a one might stand- there are two people and chances are BOTH want gratification of some sort.

So few people ever want to totally give up excitement and passion and strong feelings in life- even when you’re mature enough to know better than to pick your next date based on how dumb they make you behave or on just how much fun you had. You still want fun sometimes. We seek some of that excitement- especially the kind that we can’t get through real life simply because it is beyond what realistic life can provide- from things like entertainment.

Let’s remember the topic here. Fishing is the metaphor and that is the act of attracting an individual from the general pool and getting them to interact with you 1 on 1. To stretch the metaphor love and relationships are recipes to cook the fish and that’s out of scope of my claims. I didn’t say romantic comedies are good sources of information I said the particular character archetype tends to follow a formula at the beginning of their arc that works in real life to illicit a response from women that can help you create the 1 on 1 interaction. Does it work on all women? No. Does it work on most? No. But it works a lot better than nothing. At this stage of the game we are using marketing principles. If you get a 1-2% uptick in engagement that’s a win.

On the topic of sacrifice, as I said it’s a generality, but it’s effectiveness is prevalent throughout society. The diamond industry has sold a lot of rings because the implication is that the man has given up 3 months of his life to provide them. On the flip side a man who makes $250k would likely not get a positive response when proposing with a $75 engagement ring from WalMart because the cost is the measure of personal sacrifice when compared with his level of wealth.

But here’s my real objection to the “just be yourself” and “all women are different” genre of dating advice: its not actionable. You can’t go out and practice being yourself or recognizing individuality. Going back to the metaphor if you ask a fisherman how to fish and he tells you to buy a decent rod, rent a nice boat, and bring beer he’s not wrong. He’s just not telling you how to start out in learning how to literally fish. What guys who are shy around women really need to know is what steps they can take to attract a woman and how much of a low success effort it is so they don’t quit after not succeeding the 1st or 50th time.

I must first apologize. I am sorry that I made it seem your thoughts on romantic comedies had more literal or extreme tones. Then secondly- I must say that I will refrain from discussing or debating metaphor because you are right- we must remember the topic- and to debate metaphors and minutia there of would take us on a likely long (at least my part of it lol) side bar. So I will avoid metaphor as able in my reply- no criticism or judgment on your use of metaphor which I understand and think is overall apt.)

I can understand and respect your feelings towards generalities. No sarcasm when I say- the “beginners tutorial for Windows” might often skip things like turning on or setting up the PC- and in fairness- many asking the question may NEED that information- or while otherwise intelligent just simply can’t grasp the language or intuitively figure out concepts one might think are simple or natural. The problem with generalities is that the topic is so large that general advice that is universal is either very vague or not abundant in nature. We can give general advice to a “type” or to a “median” or other “average” such as “will work on MOST/70% whatever...” but... the guy that tries that and fails assumes it doesn’t work as opposed to knowing it doesn’t work on that woman.

It’s a numbers game really. One of the most successful men I knew at meeting new women, and he did manage to keep relationships with many for long periods- so he wasn’t all fisherman and no cooking- he was lame. Just weak ass game. His odds at any pick up were horrible. But all women have beauty and he saw it in all of them- so he’d try and date just about any woman he saw.

If you intentionally picked the worst pickup routine you could and just started asking anyone who moves using it... eventually you pretty much WILL get a date by the math. If we go less extreme and assume you have some aptitude at all or some sound advice to go off- same deal- just probably less attempts. BUT- these will apply to a POOL of women as random samples- not to any specific woman. So if you have your eye on a specific woman and you wish to maximize your odds of success- general advice may not suit.

But that’s part of the process. I think that’s the value of the general answers. You can go off a “play book” or a “script” to behave a way that is likely to get them attention- but that isn’t genuine. To a degree- “fake it until you make it” is a truism- “be yourself” will usually result in you- being yourself. To become the person you WANT to be you have to usually first act like that person. But that’s the differentiator- wether you are trying to ACT differently based on the person, or BE different.

And well- in general changing yourself just to be a person someone else is attracted to isn’t advisable. Changing to be who you want- if that happens to be what someone else is attracted to? That’s fine. But I suppose the general advice is a trick to get people to do what they need to do. The real answer isn’t very uplifting or feel good, it’s boring and people generally don’t want to hear it.

Work on you and forget about picking people up or meeting people. Be open to it- but just had some actual life goals asides not being single- have passions and hobbies and opinions and take care of yourself. Do the things that will make you successful in whatever social group it is you want to belong in or your goals or circumstances put you in. Do the things you love, love yourself, and you will very likely meet someone compatible- or you will die alone but have achieved all your other dreams. But more likely the former is true.

Talk to people- including women. Socialize in whatever ways- from hobby groups or bands or whatever you’re in to. Talk to people and pay attention to them and their reactions. Try different thing when you are in groups of people outside your sphere to see if you get different reactions- then tailor your actions and words to match who you want to be and what seems to get the results you want.

And date. Do online dating or speed dating or group dating or blind dates or ask out strangers. Keep trying to date people and keep going on dates and learn what works and what doesn’t. Observe the world around you and actually pay attention to the other person and develop your ability to “read” people and subtle cues.

Because the more you listen to stores of how people got together- the more you hear complete random chance, or stuff like “he called me a name and we hated each other but then...” “we got in a fender bender and I was bored so asked them out when we exchanged information...” “I just thought they looked good so asked them out..” or some crazy random behavior or opener that anyone would tell you to NEVER do on purpose- but in that one case- it was exactly the thing to do.

People in relationships tend to as clueless as anyone else. Some guys think it’s their flare for style that gets them dates when in fact- most women find them pathetic but endearing. I fell madly and mutually In love with a woman who later confessed that what got me a first date was she saw me and I “looked kinda dangerous... like there was something about you that wasn’t competent safe..” what the living hell does that mean? Another woman dated me for a Haiku I wrote, and agreed to a second date because I sang horribly but still sang- and drove a BMW. Sounds superficial but she is a very sweet and genuine woman.

You never really know. I’ve lost dates from women who said I treated them too well or I replied back to soon. I called a girl a skank at a party once and her reaction was to go get her sister and pull my pants off and... I’ll leave what happened next alone. It’s a mixed bag of nuts out there.