If we are only taking about world wars- it’s not really worth worrying about Germany “winning” a Third World War because we don’t know who’s side they’ll be on- they may be the “hero” of the story that is WW3. Ww2 is pretty straightforward. The Germans were Nazis, and their winning would just be bad there. But WW1....?
Well- here’s a spoiler- Germany lost WW1. The Germans only entered the way to start because they were allies to Austria and Hungary; and there is a complex history there- but AH had annexed many Balkan territories for a couple hundred years at this point. Austria/Germany/Hungary were still in the empire days- not yet shifted to egalitarian democracy. It is all more complex than all that- but WW1, Germany weren’t the good guys or the bad guys inherently.
But if WW3 were to break out today- we have to wonder who the combatants would be and why they’d be fighting- and who would Germany side with? Against Russia or China- it would probably side with America. Against the UK.... probably against. But... there is a big question about WHAT the fight will be about before we can say who is “right” or “wrong.”
For example- the imperial occupation f the Balkans- well... after WW1 when the monarchy in Germany was dissolved and the Balkans freed.... well... how has uh... how’s history been in Yugoslavia, Serbia, Croatia...? WW1 Germany wasn’t doing what Post communist Soviets was as far as the bad shit. So I dunnoh if we can call it a win for Serbia in WW1 even if they managed to kick out the Kaiser.
I think, WW2 definetly was lost by Germany, which was a good thing because, you know, Nazis...
In WW1 there actually was no winner. Basically all parties lost men and material for the result of a world that was worse than before everywhere.
I would largely agree that war in general usually doesn’t actually have a “winner” in that sense- but WW1 was a particularly brutal war, and really compared to many other wars- even the more dubious ones- of the 20th century was just... the causes and goals and end effects... war is a waste- but WW1 was a waste that stands out amongst waste.
Oddly- I do somewhat disagree with your tally though. I’d say Germany most certainly was amongst the losers of WW1. Most combatants suffered dearly- but of the major powers involved- Germany came out of the war humiliated, castrated, it’s government and social structure in ruins- setting the stage for WW2, but also causing massive poverty and suffering to the nation- which in a less philosophical way- “lost” by surrender.
But in another odd way- Germany was somewhat a “winner” in WW2. The Nazis lost. But while most Nazis were German- not all were, and while many Germans were Nazis- most Germans really weren’t. So Germany was a winner. The developments of the war and the war economy turned around many of Germany’s misfortunes from post WW1 treaties and the depression/hyper inflation. Not wanting to set the stage for a WW3 in a few decades- this time the allies didn’t brutalize a battered Germany and instead helped lift it up- helped of course by the fact that the West and the Communists were both using German post war recovery to try and show off and win favor like two immature divorced parents.
Interestingly, the peace contract of 1919 set the stage for more, e.g. Vietnam. Ho Chi Minh was taking part during the negotiations, trying to liberate his country from France by then already.
From beginning to end, everything was wrong with WW1, not in a sense that there could be much right talking about wars, but in this one, they all effed up badly
WW2 turned Germany into a technological, economic, power house. The Nazis were by and large cleaned up (until “denazification” became a real PITA and everyone more or less dropped it except for the worst criminals of the war..) and a new and stable German government emerged that has endured to this day- with problems like any government, but better than the Kaiser imperial system and better by far than Nazis.
While Germany didn’t really get to keep territory, and lost some- one of the major popular goals with the people going in was to get the unilateral and abusive WW1 treaty stipulations relaxed- that goal was accomplished. In fairness- much of the recovery post war was in large part due to wealth accumulated through “spoils” during the war- so in part the modern German prosperity is owed to stollen wealth- but I can’t say much as an American. Neither can the UK, many South Africans, Australians.... the list goes on. Basically every modern democracy is based on stealing from people who have more- which was Hitlers main plan with annexing territory- so the Nazis lost, the Germans won, and everyone lost because war is a waste of human potential, life, resources... it’s just a waste and should always be avoided if that is an option.
So for the stolen wealth, I can say a few things. Firstly, Hitler's NSDAP and Germany as such were constantly broke, Germany because of the tremendous reparations and the NSDAP because it was run by morons from the beginning. The war consumed so much money and so many resources, that invading new (rich) territories was vital to the complete operation. Secondly, the leaders of the Nazi Clan did what every single human being in power has done: they took an enormous share of what was "conquered", placed it in Swiss Banks (you know, the "neutral" guys) and after the war was over, all that gold and jewelery magically was gone...
Our wealth today actually is based on the Marshall Plan, foreign investors at the time and an amount of hard work beyond imagination.
Next up: Denazification.
It never happened. The reasons are pretty obvious, there were two to three generations of men killed or crippled by two subsequent wars. Every man in Germany who could call himself wealthy, obviously had his share in the Nazi regime, because all others were either dead, or imprisoned or gone. Politicians and lawyers weren't easy to be found without having been involved in at least a couple of crimes comitted by the Nazis.
The first government of West Germany mainly consisted of former Nazis (especially in the CDU, the conservative party, which won the first election, surprise!). Not top notch Nazis, but surely enough members and so supporters of NSDAP.
Denazification was mainly carried out by nature, if you know what I mean.
On the other hand, Western Germany invested massively in education and reeducation, which may have left Nazis in politics, but seldomly in society. Eastern Germany went the other way. Politicians were sent to Russia to be reeducated and to be "denazified", but the
people stayed untouched.
We can still feel this today and it was even more obvious in the ten years after our reunification that the east had a severe problem in terms of racism and Nazis.
Today, woke Germans still have to run around and remind people where racism, fascism and Nazis are leading to, as the old white men are on the rise again in Europe and in Germany, which is an absolute shame and one of the things I hate most about my homeland.
But I am happy and incredibly lucky to live in a Europe without war (so far). History actually turned out great for us, looking at where Germany stands today. Not only economically, but in terms of international relationships and trust.
In WW1 there actually was no winner. Basically all parties lost men and material for the result of a world that was worse than before everywhere.
From beginning to end, everything was wrong with WW1, not in a sense that there could be much right talking about wars, but in this one, they all effed up badly
Our wealth today actually is based on the Marshall Plan, foreign investors at the time and an amount of hard work beyond imagination.
Next up: Denazification.
The first government of West Germany mainly consisted of former Nazis (especially in the CDU, the conservative party, which won the first election, surprise!). Not top notch Nazis, but surely enough members and so supporters of NSDAP.
Denazification was mainly carried out by nature, if you know what I mean.
On the other hand, Western Germany invested massively in education and reeducation, which may have left Nazis in politics, but seldomly in society. Eastern Germany went the other way. Politicians were sent to Russia to be reeducated and to be "denazified", but the
We can still feel this today and it was even more obvious in the ten years after our reunification that the east had a severe problem in terms of racism and Nazis.
Today, woke Germans still have to run around and remind people where racism, fascism and Nazis are leading to, as the old white men are on the rise again in Europe and in Germany, which is an absolute shame and one of the things I hate most about my homeland.
But I am happy and incredibly lucky to live in a Europe without war (so far). History actually turned out great for us, looking at where Germany stands today. Not only economically, but in terms of international relationships and trust.