Just from a technical standpoint, I'm pretty sure the people demanding everyone around them cater to their specific needs, and then going to the literal managers of the countries in question to demand everyone be FORCED to cater to their needs, probably actually fit the definition of Karen better.
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But then again people will probably take this comment too seriously, making the entire joke not worth the effort
Probably so.
And you look at the low level Karens (meaning the ones mentioned in this post), and it's like, "put the damn mask on", if they really do have a condition that would prevent them from wearing one, then they obviously can't be out in public anyway.
I don't like wearing a mask, I don't know why, I fully understand it's a preventative measure to stop the spreading of the virus, but I put one on anyway because it's so stupidly simple.
I am pretty sure you misunderstood who my post was talking about lol
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But for the record: many people have conditions that make mask-wearing dangerous for them - particularly respiratory related conditions. These people can and do manage just fine in public spaces - even during covid - provided people respect social distancing.
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I myself wouldn't be at risk of death from wearing a mask, but [redacted]
Working outside in the summer while wearing a mask is tough but manageable. If no one’s around it’d be best to take it off. Though pretty sure sweat on the mask defeats the purpose of the mask.
No, I knew who you were talking about. I was saying everyone who refuses to wear a mask for no other reason than self entitlement needs to get a grip and just wear it.
Well then I'm afraid I don't understand your comment I guess. Unless by probably so you meant you were about to make my comment more work than it was worth?
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Also fun things to know: at least in c where the masks have been mandated they're only mandated indoors, UNLESS you're consuming food or liquid, OR you are working out (somehow working out negates the spread of bacteria).
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And, as they've warned people: the making of the masks mandatory and threatening to fine people is not about ENFORCING the mask law. It's about EDUCATING people. Which is honestly one of the single most Karen takes I've ever heard said unironically by a government body.
That basically it- and the thing so many seem unable to grasp. Masks are better than nothing, they are a minor step to provide a modicum of protection, but politicians and governments are trying to walk a fine line between totally draconian but effective isolation orders which would be very prohibitive to freedom, and harmful to economies and people’s lives and of course- many were already going cabin crazy after a few weeks of just “essential outings.”
So they at balancing that against political pressure from people who don’t want to or literally can’t be locked up for a month or two with NO going out, and trying to make sure businesses don’t go under and we don’t slide into a massive depression when all this is over- while trying to do their best to protect people’s health.
Like most compromise solutions, you could get “better” results for any one view without the compromise. Those wanting no mask requirements would obviously prefer no requirements, and those wanting to end Covid quickly would most prefer extreme isolation. And here we meet in the middle- but the “all or nothing” extremist mentality held by many is juvenile. Most of all when we consider that if it were pushed to “all or nothing” extreme isolation is likely the “all” that would be the case, and that would be a touch worse than having to wear a mask.
I dont like extremes like you mentioned @guess_ but I see the mask as the middle. We can go out, bussinesses can open, just wear a damn mask. And people can debate all day long ifnitnworks, but might make those who want total isolation/ quarantine and shut down of economy more willing to actually go out. Masks are not new. Many people were wearing it as part of their job for hours. It is very annoying to see some people complain about doing the bare minimal of using it for maybe an hour or two, or even less, a day.
Oh I agree. Providing you don’t have a health exemption (and are thusly.. except..) the masks are a minor inconvenience. The rulings were made so they would be- so you wouldn’t need to spend money you may not have to get XYZ mask- you can use a t shirt. Not the most effective way- but the way that allows the most people to follow the rule with the least impact.
So it is rather annoying when people bitch and moan about it as though they’re being asked to make some great sacrifice, or being forced to kneel and worship before some alien god and reject their own beliefs- more so when their argument boils down to what they inevitably do at the core, either or:
-“I don’t wanna!”
-“Lizard men and the Kardashians are using this as a ...”
-“why should I have to do anything in public for the possible benefit of others..”
And my favorite that I see much of:
-“I know the science. I use a meat thermostat at work so I practice science. I’ve seen the truth myself and know better than people who went to school and made careers of science. No I don’t have data but I’ll say I do and never present it. Here’s a link to a non peer reviewed bias study...”
Lol (the lizards and Kardashians) but exactly! It is further ridiculous when you learn some people use "my rights" too when the seat belt was initially being enforced. Anyways, I already have had contact with people positive at work and thankfully I am negative so I keep wearing it.
It’s funny because all of the people I know with actual respiratory issues stay isolated, and when they must go out, wear a mask. So I think it’s really funny when people talk about not wearing a mask for “respiratory issues.”
My dad, for example, has had lung surgery 3 times in the last 2 years. And has lymphoma affecting his lungs. He has trouble breathing. Funny enough, he can wear a mask in public.
My spouse does manual labor in 90+ degree temperatures. Wearing a mask all day is miserable. Funny enough, the day is survived and it and is just fine.
It sucks. No one wants to do it. But it’s a small thing we can do to help those in our communities. It’s not about rights. It’s about supporting one another. And, for those who cannot wear a mask, they are safer when everyone else does.
People you know who have respiratory issues can stay at home all the time and have no issues wearing masks, therefore that's the reality for everyone, is an... interesting take, I'll give you that
*wear a mask when they must go out.
Because yeah, most people really do have to go out.
But you’re over here trying say you can’t wear a mask so people shouldn’t have to, because that is your personal experience. So your experience is valid and mine clearly isn’t. That’s a hot take too.
It’s not my intention to suggest that people who aren’t aware of your medical condition don’t give you a hard time.
Though it surprises me that someone with such precarious health wouldn’t want everyone else, who is able to wear a mask, to do so if for no other reason than to protect themselves.
I never once said any of the things you are accusing me of saying that I can recall. I never even agreed or disagreed with you. I merely said that was an interesting stance to take.
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I would task you to go back through my comments here and provide me with the citations if you would be so kind.
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But to address your final point.. If I were to start demanding the entire population cater to my personal health issues at all times, the list of things people wouldn't be allowed to do or use would be probably about as long as this comment thread.
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Once again not voicing a stance on the masks at this time, but I will say: I survived when there were only masks for the healthcare workers. And people were taking this virus a lot lighter back then in most places I went
Likewise.
Sharing my experience of reality, is not the same as saying it is everyone’s reality. And if that’s not what you were implying when you said, “therefore that’s the reality for everyone” I can’t imagine what you were implying.
Aside from that, alright you got me. It sounds a lot like you think people shouldn’t have to wear a mask during an actual pandemic and I responded as if that was what you were saying. Sorry, to put words in your mouth. Incidentally, it still sounds like you don’t think people (who are able) should have to wear a mask... because other health issues exist?
I mean, there are people out there working jobs in the summer heat and have to wear masks. Let's not belittle people loading and unloading all your packages you're ordering since the start of February, which was supposed to be the end of their busy season, but has not at all slowed since the outbreak. Sure, 30 year old facebook moms should catch the flak, but try to be a little less callous and demonstrate some empathy.
Well a further explanation of my argument is that people don’t disconnect the angry emotion they have against Karens to non-Karens, a staple of (un)civil discourse nowadays.
People like to pretend that they want masks for the good of everyone else, but at the end of the day from what I've seen and heard, people really don't care about other people. They want masks to protect themselves and themselves alone. Maybe some of their loved ones.
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And that's fair. I find it ridiculous, however, when I tell these same people the negative impacts masks can and do have on my health, and the health of other people, and they essentially respond with "your reasons are invalid and I hate everything about your existence. Suck it up you miserable plague-bomb. If you die as a result, remember it's FOR YOUR OWN GOOD." It gets even more bizarre when people take this approach regardless of whether I offer an opinion on whether masks SHOULD be worn.
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The evidence I've seen and the interactions I've had all suggest that people have no ability to approach this problem with anything resembling an open mind. Or empathy.
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Everything I've seen points to the fact that people are afraid. It's difficult to have discourse with people at the best of times. But When they're afraid... they don't want to TALK. They want someone to blame. If we can all find someone to point our hostility at...
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it becomes much easier to ignore the fact that a situation isn't under your authority to control.
So I could certainly understand being frustrated if you are telling someone “I have this medical exemption...” and they won’t give YOU a pass. But like..... the rules themselves make that pass. Most people are more than fine with that pass. There is a minority of people who are so “scared” or stubborn they will still insist a person with a valid and professionally diagnosed medical reason to not wear a mask do so- but that just isn’t the reality statistically. And it certainly isn’t any sort of indictment against the idea of wearing a mask, or those who say that those who CAN should.
Like I said: people attack me about it regardless of whether I offer any opinion on whether masks Should be worn. Which I didn't do here. Hell, people downvoted my health issues in this very thread.
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They also downvoted me talking about the rules Canada has implemented. Not agreeing, not disagreeing. With he exception of the final sentence, that's all it is. Just the rules. Perhaps with a bit more inflection, but not different than you would find them on a government website.
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And the DVs aren't important, but they reflect the state of mind of people.
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People have their minds made up. They do not want to TALK. They want to lecture and silence. They continuously find windmills to tilt at, and do their utmost to burn them to the ground.
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If they actually gave a fuck about the people they claim to care about... they'd try and listen. Not project.
I hope you don’t take this the wrong way- but I feel you have a self persecution complex. I have quite literally pressed post on a single long comment and as soon as it posted had downvotes. People downvoting you may not, likely aren’t, reading what you are saying. They are likely either seeing your name and downvoting, reading a sentence or two and downvoting, or just downvoting you speaking on this topic because they are tired of it... or die to your previous comments which all amount to largely the same thing you are saying here- figured they’d save time and just down vote you on faith for what you were going to say. Which is wrong, but if the latter is the case they would be correct even if wrong in principal.
So while those things you mention may paint of picture of you, or your views on the subject being disliked or disapproved of- they don’t really paint a picture for a grand conspiracy of people who don’t want to listen and are closed minded. Thinking in terms of the later makes it easier for the self and ego to reconcile the former. In simple words- it’s easier on us to just say that everyone else is wrong, or ignorant- to admit our own selves truth. Especially when we are dug in on something and feel we need some sort of vindication so as to save ourselves a feeling of defeat.
I was using the downvotes as an example. I literally said people I have interacted with respond this way as well. Given that there are consistent examples of anyone exuberantly agreeing with mask laws being given upvote on this same thread, the data suggests it is not random and irrelevant.
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And, once again, I don't CARE about the downvotes. They mean nothing. I don't know how else to say that if you're going to make up your mind that they do matter. That is, however, missing the point entirely.
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Ignore the downvote section. Obliterate it from your mind. Nothing else in my comment changes.
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Also: not once did I mention a conspiracy. I don't think people are rubbing their hands together and meeting in dark corners to discuss all the ways to "persecute" people who disagree with them.
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That would require way more thought process. And most of the people I've encountered are willing to give the issue a grand total of half an hour of their time, and then their mind is made up for the entirety of their existence.
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The fact that you can write off what I've said as "self persecution" - the fact that you think this is about ME at all - really just proves my point.
I don't know if you're asking that mockingly or in a genuine fashion.
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If serious: you'd have to elaborate. Everyone would fear the way other people react when they're afraid - depending on the situation. People do very horrifying things when they have fear to motivate them.
No it’s not mockingly I’m genuine concerned multiple times you’ve repeated that people don’t listen to what you’re saying and I wanna offer a listening ear.
@cryoenthusiast that is quite kind of you tbh.
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It's not really meant to be about me specifically. When I say people don't have any interest in listening, I mean to just about anyone who doesn't appear to be completely gung-ho on the enforced mask thing. It doesn't matter what they (or I) actually put into words - people always take what you've said, twist it to mean what they WANT you to be saying, and then demolish the entire conversation in the process.
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There seems no way around it.
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I just find it disappointing, hypocritical, and tedious at this point. And I'm honestly tired of even attempting to talk about it, BUT I also have limited self control, and constantly [stupidly] rejoin the fray haha. Definition of insanity I suppose
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I do sincerely appreciate your concern, though. The site has been very political and dark lately it seems, and that was a nice thing to see.
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Faith not restored, but when the zombies finally join the apocalypse, you'll not be one of the ones I trip as I make my escape
[^I'm somewhat incapable of having most conversations without making jokes btw, don't mind me]
(I will die a gruesome death elsewhere lol.) But yeah been noticing frustration in your comments good to see you managing though. Not to sound to hippy but there needs to be more love man.
1. “Grand conspiracy was hyperbolic. The point there was that most people are reasonable on the subject provided the person they are talking to is reasonable. But- as your experiences and a general knowledge of humanity show- some people will be unreasonable regardless of what the topic is. I’m sorry for you or anyone else who has to put up with that. Society is often geared for the majority case and not the exception. Perhaps next time we debate some issue of catering to a minority groups feelings or needs you might remember this experience and empathize to what it feels like to be in a group not considered by society on something that has an impact or meaning to you personally- and know that while the circumstances and details aren’t the same- that you can relate to the feeling and when it was you- you didn’t like it.
2. Being genuine and sincere in well meaning, and not attacking or criticizing- I believe that it is the composition of the message that contributes to the issues- that it is rather difficult to read what was said as only applying in a narrow case- the beginning uses absolutes and generalities “people like to pretend...” which without qualifier like “some,” “many” is generally read in context as a starting subject to mean “all.”
The following statement, while phrased factually, can be seen as an indictment of those who support the idea of wearing masks, but the overall tone is negative, and most people don’t “like to pretend...” and likely took offense to that as they posses empathy and I wouldn’t say most people only care about them and theirs- most people likely care MOST about them and theirs, but can reason out that others likely feel the same and so see the arrangement as a sort of social agreement - the “golden rule” that they may not like if others didn’t wear a mask, so they should wear one too.
Me personally- I don’t really care about the masks. I don’t particularly care about if I get Covid and a good deal of my family and friends are dead, or have sequestered themselves completely- so if Covid sweeps the Wal-Mart or the piggly wiggly or the City or whatever- there isn’t really anyone in my life I’m too worried about catching it or dying from it. But- I once had people to worry about if something like this happened- so I respect how others feel and am fine to do my part for their potential benefit because... well... I’m not a sociopath and even people o don’t know are people, just like me. (I’m not saying people who don’t leers masks are sociopaths- I’m saying that people with a full range of human emotion tend to care about others feelings.)
So that start was rather rocky and I could see it possibly putting some people on the defensive. But going on we have certain... ambiguities suck as the part where you talk about telling people about the dangers to your health and others. Strictly in context we COULD read that as “the dangers of wearing a mask for those of us who have health problems that prevent it...” but that isn’t close to what words were used. The ambiguity there could be read as propagating the rhetoric that studies show masks themselves pose a greater health risk to healthy people than Corona.
So basically- I think the way this and perhaps other comments are written is rather ambiguous, and coupled with the history of posts you’ve made that have been in protest of mask orders, that ambiguity is inferred to be have the meaning which best fits your known and stated views on the issue. If Ronald Reagan wrote something in 1980 that was ambiguous between possibly supporting capitalism or supporting communism- using his other stated views and writings, we would all likely agree that one would read it to support capitalism, as that is what his record suggests.
So basically, I think that if we assume for the sake of discussion that there is no Conscious or subconscious bias or other subtle manipulation of language at play- using the first post you made in this thread as an example- one schooled in the use of language or just intuitively aware of it might identify certain traits that again- for this discussion we will assume were not intentional- which read in a way that grooming propaganda is often written. So even those who don’t consciously realize it may have subconsciously picked up on it. Those are just my thoughts, you may do as you wish with them. My guess is disregard them- but there they are. I leave you to it.
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But then again people will probably take this comment too seriously, making the entire joke not worth the effort
And you look at the low level Karens (meaning the ones mentioned in this post), and it's like, "put the damn mask on", if they really do have a condition that would prevent them from wearing one, then they obviously can't be out in public anyway.
I don't like wearing a mask, I don't know why, I fully understand it's a preventative measure to stop the spreading of the virus, but I put one on anyway because it's so stupidly simple.
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But for the record: many people have conditions that make mask-wearing dangerous for them - particularly respiratory related conditions. These people can and do manage just fine in public spaces - even during covid - provided people respect social distancing.
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I myself wouldn't be at risk of death from wearing a mask, but [redacted]
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Also fun things to know: at least in c where the masks have been mandated they're only mandated indoors, UNLESS you're consuming food or liquid, OR you are working out (somehow working out negates the spread of bacteria).
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And, as they've warned people: the making of the masks mandatory and threatening to fine people is not about ENFORCING the mask law. It's about EDUCATING people. Which is honestly one of the single most Karen takes I've ever heard said unironically by a government body.
-“I don’t wanna!”
-“Lizard men and the Kardashians are using this as a ...”
-“why should I have to do anything in public for the possible benefit of others..”
And my favorite that I see much of:
-“I know the science. I use a meat thermostat at work so I practice science. I’ve seen the truth myself and know better than people who went to school and made careers of science. No I don’t have data but I’ll say I do and never present it. Here’s a link to a non peer reviewed bias study...”
My dad, for example, has had lung surgery 3 times in the last 2 years. And has lymphoma affecting his lungs. He has trouble breathing. Funny enough, he can wear a mask in public.
My spouse does manual labor in 90+ degree temperatures. Wearing a mask all day is miserable. Funny enough, the day is survived and it and is just fine.
It sucks. No one wants to do it. But it’s a small thing we can do to help those in our communities. It’s not about rights. It’s about supporting one another. And, for those who cannot wear a mask, they are safer when everyone else does.
Because yeah, most people really do have to go out.
But you’re over here trying say you can’t wear a mask so people shouldn’t have to, because that is your personal experience. So your experience is valid and mine clearly isn’t. That’s a hot take too.
It’s not my intention to suggest that people who aren’t aware of your medical condition don’t give you a hard time.
Though it surprises me that someone with such precarious health wouldn’t want everyone else, who is able to wear a mask, to do so if for no other reason than to protect themselves.
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I would task you to go back through my comments here and provide me with the citations if you would be so kind.
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But to address your final point.. If I were to start demanding the entire population cater to my personal health issues at all times, the list of things people wouldn't be allowed to do or use would be probably about as long as this comment thread.
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Once again not voicing a stance on the masks at this time, but I will say: I survived when there were only masks for the healthcare workers. And people were taking this virus a lot lighter back then in most places I went
Sharing my experience of reality, is not the same as saying it is everyone’s reality. And if that’s not what you were implying when you said, “therefore that’s the reality for everyone” I can’t imagine what you were implying.
Aside from that, alright you got me. It sounds a lot like you think people shouldn’t have to wear a mask during an actual pandemic and I responded as if that was what you were saying. Sorry, to put words in your mouth. Incidentally, it still sounds like you don’t think people (who are able) should have to wear a mask... because other health issues exist?
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And that's fair. I find it ridiculous, however, when I tell these same people the negative impacts masks can and do have on my health, and the health of other people, and they essentially respond with "your reasons are invalid and I hate everything about your existence. Suck it up you miserable plague-bomb. If you die as a result, remember it's FOR YOUR OWN GOOD." It gets even more bizarre when people take this approach regardless of whether I offer an opinion on whether masks SHOULD be worn.
The evidence I've seen and the interactions I've had all suggest that people have no ability to approach this problem with anything resembling an open mind. Or empathy.
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Everything I've seen points to the fact that people are afraid. It's difficult to have discourse with people at the best of times. But When they're afraid... they don't want to TALK. They want someone to blame. If we can all find someone to point our hostility at...
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it becomes much easier to ignore the fact that a situation isn't under your authority to control.
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They also downvoted me talking about the rules Canada has implemented. Not agreeing, not disagreeing. With he exception of the final sentence, that's all it is. Just the rules. Perhaps with a bit more inflection, but not different than you would find them on a government website.
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And the DVs aren't important, but they reflect the state of mind of people.
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People have their minds made up. They do not want to TALK. They want to lecture and silence. They continuously find windmills to tilt at, and do their utmost to burn them to the ground.
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If they actually gave a fuck about the people they claim to care about... they'd try and listen. Not project.
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And, once again, I don't CARE about the downvotes. They mean nothing. I don't know how else to say that if you're going to make up your mind that they do matter. That is, however, missing the point entirely.
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Ignore the downvote section. Obliterate it from your mind. Nothing else in my comment changes.
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Also: not once did I mention a conspiracy. I don't think people are rubbing their hands together and meeting in dark corners to discuss all the ways to "persecute" people who disagree with them.
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The fact that you can write off what I've said as "self persecution" - the fact that you think this is about ME at all - really just proves my point.
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If serious: you'd have to elaborate. Everyone would fear the way other people react when they're afraid - depending on the situation. People do very horrifying things when they have fear to motivate them.
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It's not really meant to be about me specifically. When I say people don't have any interest in listening, I mean to just about anyone who doesn't appear to be completely gung-ho on the enforced mask thing. It doesn't matter what they (or I) actually put into words - people always take what you've said, twist it to mean what they WANT you to be saying, and then demolish the entire conversation in the process.
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There seems no way around it.
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I just find it disappointing, hypocritical, and tedious at this point. And I'm honestly tired of even attempting to talk about it, BUT I also have limited self control, and constantly [stupidly] rejoin the fray haha. Definition of insanity I suppose
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Faith not restored, but when the zombies finally join the apocalypse, you'll not be one of the ones I trip as I make my escape
[^I'm somewhat incapable of having most conversations without making jokes btw, don't mind me]