He would require the US military to back him up 100%. Not going to happen. Regardless of what side of the aisle they're on they're still made up of citizens with family from all over the country. So besides the fact that that situation would provide ample ground to legally refuse an order, there is just no way they'd be willing to march on their own people.
In fairness he does not need the military to back him up 100%. He would need a large force- but more important than 100% backing would be to have key high ranking officials and control of certain strategic assets like missile bases, supply and logistics pools, air bases, and so on. And while even if it was 50/50 split backing either side could lose- the detestation of such a conflict could and likely would be devastating in collateral damage, bad blood domestically, global politics economics, and it would cripple the US military as it recovered and worked to cull and do damage control and reorganize to prevent the same thing in the future. It would be REALLY bad even if a single shot wasn’t fired- but one nuke or even large conventional munitions- that would be a big deal.
I mean- I do think it is unlikely. Unless he really is a foreign agent or under foreign influence knowing or unknowingly, and the goal is simply disruption and chaos. But again- unlikely. Possible, but unlikely. I personally don’t think he respects his office or his country let alone the constitution. He’s a doer, not a philosopher. He only cares the steak is served not how it gets made. But- he’s about himself first, and I think the risk to reward ratio there as well as consequences for failure don’t make it a value move for him. But... still possible. Just unlikely.
The main difference between cops and military is origin of the members and where they work. Factions don't tend form when you're members are constantly changing. In the US military you're only allowed to remain at a post for 3 years then you get relocated. This happens to everyone all up the chain of command. This is specifically to prevent factions forming. You may get pockets of soldiers, especially in the special forces, that may be assigned to a unit together a few times but we're talking about very small numbers. Speaking as a former soldier any attempt by any president to remain in office through military action would be doomed to failure.
I largely agree. As I said- it is VERY unlikely he could leverage the military to remain in office. It is unlikely he would try. It is POSSIBLE that he could try, still unlikely he’d succeed, but he wouldn’t have to succeed to cause deep and lasting devastation. As for the military and forming cells....
.... the military is an organization that operates on a chain of command and by instilling a sense of unity. Positive and negative aspects of communal thinking and peer pressure exist. What will a little E1 or E2 do when everyone else grabs their kit and runs off on orders? It’s up in the air. Is this kid going to have the courage to say “this is wrong I won’t do it?” Some will. Some will go with whatever their group does. The Germans were largely good people. Most weren’t even Nazis. Regular military guys and in later cases conscripts who could give a shit about the country or the cause. And yet- look what charismatic leaders and communal pressure was able to get them to do.
This isn’t comparing anyone to Nazis in ideology, I’m saying its established knowledge that peer pressure- especially in cohesive groups conditioned to follow orders and work as a team- can make people do extreme things we wouldn’t think. How many crying defendants have stood before a charge on gang rape or murder or some other conspiracy- people who’s families and friends and mothers and even themselves would tell you last week that isn’t who they are? We find out who we are when it gets tested. I doubt most of the military would side with any POTUS for a coup. I’d like to think very few would. But it doesn’t take many to cause a big problem- especially if you’re very strategic with who those few are.
That’s academic of course. Hypothetical. As I said I don’t see it happening. I see mud slinging and court battles and whining and PR stunts and calls of fraud and foul play no matter who wins in 2020- I don’t see armed insurrection- but it’s a bet a wouldn’t take on the odds- but it isn’t a bet a bookie would take off the board; and if it did happen- successful or not- if it’s one squad or one division- it would be bad for everyone for a long time. So more than anything I hope it doesn’t happen and don’t see it worth worrying about unless it does.
Most cops are ex-military.
edit: adding that again, after all the shit I've seen him pull, he'd absolutely try it if he thought it would work. A second thought wouldn't even begin the foundations.
Yes. lol. But you know... it’s probably fine. They likely adopted a totally different world view AFTER joining the force and weren’t already if a certain mindset and philosophy from the start- and probably didn’t pick up any of their present politics or views while enlisted. So I think we are safe....
@guest_ and @funkmasterex I didn't break you out of Area 51 to have your asses thrown in the gulag. @famousone I would say its a crap shoot how the military would respond to a coup. Say 50/50 some would have the courage to not follow illegal orders. A general was on the news a few years back explaining why he had the ability to not launch nukes for invalid reasons. By the way hi guys. Politics get pretty heated.
Lol. Hi @popsy. We will try and stay out of the Gulag, but as your previous rescue illustrates, we seem to rub some folks the wrong way and sometimes when that happens you get locked up.
Lol. Even Star Trek- one of the most optimistic and shiny futures of popular fiction still rings true. Don’t forget for all the high minded talk of enlightenment and progress by Kirk or Picard etc- the shiny ships and pretty veneer- we see there are still slums. Still exploited beings. Still hate and xenophobia and racism and bigotry and crime, terrorism and pettiness and greed.
This future is plenty shiny- but.... like a prop set for a film, if you’re an actor standing in the main stage you’re surrounded by shiny sets and slick costumes. If you’re someone who doesn’t get to be on that side you see the raw plywood or the facades. Some places, a person could go about their daily life and everything will be shiny and clean, but just a zip code away not so much. We have robot vacuums and near light speed communications and all these fancy toys we were promised- if a person can afford them. But even then.... all the time saving devices in the world aren’t much use if a person doesn’t have something with a feeling of meaning to do with their time.
And that I think is what is largely missing. When we see popular fiction of the future we get a story. There is meaning and purpose, a clear path to follow. Here- not so much. Rewards and consequences aren’t consistent, there is no clear path to the objective. And most of us have the role of making sure the lights stay on in the shiny parts of town- we aren’t the ones chewing the scenery with the lead characters but the random citizens in the background doing the mundane.
Okay, I forgot the layout of my joke I'm about to tell for a second; and in a way, this actually isn't a joke. I didn't put gas in front of chamber for a reason; if I'm going to become an experiment I wanna go crazy night-starved vampire where I eat my own lips. I'm betting I can last a week longer than anyone else because I'd be expecting it. I'd like to become so havocal... (yes I just made up a fucking word),,, they wouldn't be able to help but respect the insanity... and then they'd prolly try and parade me around.
He will NOT leave peacefully.. He's also mentioned a third term.. Than his face on Mt Rushmore.. his hair would be tough to recreate. 2020 .. dumpster Trumpster fire
Uh, no. Trump has been positioning to cast doubt on the legitimacy of an election that he loses since the last election. He insinuated that he wouldn't recognize the election as valid if he was defeated by Hillary, and he's putting the pieces together to try and do the same if Biden defeats him. Everything he's doing now seems to indicate he will not transfer power willingly or peacefully. It is my opinion that our Constitution will be put to its greatest test after this election, should Trump be elected out of office.
Yes. Going out half cocked with poor logic and without any factual basis, going off emotion and bias and trying to twist anything they can to justify what they want- it’s not just upsetting it’s dangerous. Sadly there is often a lack of self awareness there when dealing with these kinds of people, they’re blinded by their desire to get what they want wether it makes sense or not, and for that talk of morality most don’t really care as long as things end up for them. Luckily someone stood up here to this guy and checked his extremism and conspiracy theories. I’m glad you were able to see the failings in his logic regardless of his viewpoints alignment to your own. I hope that you can continue to stand up and identify posts from anyone like this regardless of the horse they’re backing- demand logic and fact.
He actually has been slowly positioning himself for such a decision. Don't forget, technically under national emergency powers he can (and likely would) suspend elections. Not even FDR was such an ego-maniac to actually do it, but Trump is on another level, don't doubt his potential to do it.
There is no test. Nothing short of national consensus can delay or cancel the election. There will be a new president or Trump will be reelected.
Just look at recent history, Camp Democrat never accepted the 2016 election, but we're still chugging. The Union survived Obama, Clinton, Carter, Nixon, FDR, Wilson, Lincoln, Jackson, and Washington. The Union would survive an obstinate Trump even more handily than another 4 year Democrat hissy fit.
Nevermind that the US military has no loyalty above the Constitution. We'll put insurrectionists down all the same, left, right, especially our own.
A good way to sidestep the issue entirely? Stop floating that mail-in bullshit, even absentee ballots are subject to fraud every cycle, we don't need the ambiguity.
fas,org/sgp/crs/RL32471.pdf
And as he technically controls the majority in congress, it'd be easier than you'd think.
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And don't even try to pretend a shred of altruism still exists in Congress. Votes can be bought and sold like any other commodity, they just have a large price tag.... and Trump, without hesitation, would do it.
He's already floated the idea multiple times just to gauge the response and when it comes back negative he claims he was joking. The guy doesn't know what the fuck a joke is so you KNOW that he wasn't joking.
Oh lord. I’m out. I can’t. I can’t even agree with famousone without being embarrassed to be in agreement. Before I go though I think I’ll join in the fun and try to fit in: yeah funk. It can’t happen. It’s never happened before and nothing can happen that hasn’t happened before. If it does happen- blame the democrats. Also, if trump loses- the democrats something something! Also- the military would never let it happen! They have guns. Big guns. They can smell fraud. The military defends the constitution. Like if the president was being impeached and his own party said they think he’s guilty on record but don’t want to impeach him because he’s swell for business? The military would stop that right?
Cause the military has no allegiance above the constitution. That’s why he’s called the CIC, because the military isn’t under his command. It’s just a title- like “best grip” on a move set. The military has never done anything unconstitutional or supported anyone acting unconditional. Like indefinite detention of US citizens without trial on the orders of the CIC. never would or could happen.
That hurt to type. Yeah. I can’t join the extremist fun, it damages brain cells I think, because that hurt. It’s certainly unlikely that POTIS will install a military coup, but it IS possible. Anything is really. But it’s less a question of him having the will a more a question of having the power. If he loses that’s the straw that America is tired of his shit and his power base is tired of his inability to deliver. So I don’t know that he’d have the power to pull it off- and he’s savvy enough to know a fight he can’t win and can’t afford to lose if he starts I think.
It was the bigliest most transparent hugely geniusely covfefe in the history of covfefe's. A lot of people don't know this, but he's an expert on covfefe.. and drinking water... and those windmills are hugely the cancer source... a lot of people also don't know this, all those tests are very hard, unbelievable, like... you wouldn't believe it.
I doubt the military would back him. But my concern is that a large number of US citizens would listen to his crap, and decide that they believe that the election was invalid, and support him and try to prevent him from being removed from the White House, thus forcing a violent confrontation between his supporters and the military. Nothing good will come of that.
I have it on good authority, that you can make tests easier by being in good health. Injecting yourself with disinfectant should do the trick. That’s what my good friend who is a doctor told me while they were telling me to buy a bunch of drugs from India that the FDA doesn’t recognize to treat Covid. She also told me about how witches have sex with people in their dreams, and demons too. She’s very smart. Smarter than those so called “decorated and recognized academic expert” bozos who keep trying to tell me we should “quarantine” and “wear masks.” Don’t they realize masks are a bigger killer than Covid? I don’t have the numbers but they are big. I swear. So big. So many people die from the masks. And those that lived caught socialism. It’s true.
@shepard530- that I could see. Even if it doesn’t go bad enough to armed conflict- the end result of this presidents term and actions has been what many have been objecting to about him all along- he is a man who divides by his nature. He puts people against each other and polarizes. So no matter how the election goes there will be deep hurt feelings and allegations of tampering and new “xyz-gate” scandals and more. It will probably be 50 years before the nation gets past this presidency. Or more. People still fight over Reagan, and politics aside Reagan- people liked the man even if they hated his politics.
In 2016 and now 2020- the best thing any democrat could have done if they truly wanted what was best for the country was to not run and back one horse. In 2016 and now 2020 the best thing Donald Trump could do if he truly wants what is best for America- is not run. His politics asides- his presence divides. His style and demeanor divides. He can’t help it. He’s a troll. He sits in his office eating beans for a photo shoot to piss on people for asking that our highest level of government follow the rules of the office. Come on now. We shall see that happens next. If I’m wrong- my posts will probably have me sent to a Gulag.
Let us not forget, his uncle was a nuclear physicist who taught him all the sciences because he's like, really smart; something else a lot of people don't know.
About Reagan, agreed. Most of what he did you understood he was only trying to help and he was very charismatic. There's literally none of that with this absolute dumpster fire.
Lmao. It will be a hell of a ride. History might not remember our names- but eventually we’d be vindicated along with all the “purged” in the text books. Who knows- maybe after the whole thing falls in the US will become socialist or something? While the concept doesn’t please me, the irony tickles me.
edit: adding that again, after all the shit I've seen him pull, he'd absolutely try it if he thought it would work. A second thought wouldn't even begin the foundations.
Just look at recent history, Camp Democrat never accepted the 2016 election, but we're still chugging. The Union survived Obama, Clinton, Carter, Nixon, FDR, Wilson, Lincoln, Jackson, and Washington. The Union would survive an obstinate Trump even more handily than another 4 year Democrat hissy fit.
Nevermind that the US military has no loyalty above the Constitution. We'll put insurrectionists down all the same, left, right, especially our own.
A good way to sidestep the issue entirely? Stop floating that mail-in bullshit, even absentee ballots are subject to fraud every cycle, we don't need the ambiguity.
And as he technically controls the majority in congress, it'd be easier than you'd think.
(replace comma after fas with period)
About Reagan, agreed. Most of what he did you understood he was only trying to help and he was very charismatic. There's literally none of that with this absolute dumpster fire.
replace comma with period after bbc
That is one sentence I never thought I'd utter.