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guest_
· 4 years ago
· FIRST
I’ve mentioned this before on posts about this film- but I’ll mention it here. Obviously Netflix handled this inappropriately. Obviously some people may have trouble with the films general premise etc (like me- I have my deep reservations on this whole thing.) BUT- we have to be VERY careful and ask- and answer- a lot of questions before we start throwing around labels and judgments and effectively looking to “end” the films wide distribution.
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guest_
· 4 years ago
As I’ve mentioned before- it isn’t that kids aren’t doing this stuff- it isn’t that 11 year olds and younger aren’t imitating “sexy dance moves” and such- or even that there aren’t 11 year olds who are exploring or curious about, aware of their own or the concept of sexuality. This is a case where adults made a film about it- for adults- using kids- to play out a story that isn’t necessarily a “documentary” but is definitely crafted by an adult mind. So I see that as problematic.
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guest_
· 4 years ago
But- what if all the other films that sexualize kids? “Léon: The Professional” Had at its heart the core sexual tension between a child and a hit man- a child who dresses up to seduce said hitman, tell a hotel clerk they will have sex, sleeps with the hitman, and is made up and dressed revealingly throughout the film. There are numerous other examples of children being specialized as part of the films plot, through scenes, or just by the studio. I’m not saying that is good. I think that is bad. So then why bring it up? Well- “The professional” is a very good film. It’s received international acclaim and inspired countless other creative minds. For most people- it isn’t “porn” but the relationship between the two adds to the film and adds dimensions to the character of Portman.
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guest_
· 4 years ago
In fact- while its cliche that every stripper and prostitute and “promiscuous” woman “lacks self respect” or has “issues” beyond what anyone else has- it is true that humans who grow up in certain conditions often do exhibit hyper sexuality in various ways or seek validation through sex, or use sex as the only way they know to leverage power or show affection. So it certainly has a place with her character even if it makes (me and) other viewers uncomfortable. That’s sorta the point. This little girl is “fucked up” but in the end- she can be “ok” with just a little guidance and a real human connection not based on sex.
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guest_
· 4 years ago
So my point there is that I get it- I feel the same- when we see anything we feel is exploiting children- our gut reaction is to label it as filth. But- there are questions about artistic merit, message- does a thing serve a purpose and if so to what end? What is the story that is being told? What’s the real message?
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guest_
· 4 years ago
Putting little girls in make up to make them “more attractive” to sell tickets to an adult audience is gross. Taking actors and having them portray little girls in make up to show something about us and our society- that can have merit. It all depends. I haven’t watched this film. I do not plan to and doubt I will. So I ant say what merit I think it had or if the film had an important message or does things with purpose other than exploitation.
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guest_
· 4 years ago
Most people talking about it haven’t seen it either. And we must be very careful as the difference between art and pornography is a very thin and ambiguous line. perhaps the closest we get to a definition is the intent of the creator- what they intended the piece to be used as. But of course- pornography IS itself art isn’t it? So the line is in essence- imaginary. It’s in the eye of the beholder and what one does with a thing.
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guest_
· 4 years ago
But this is a very important concept because child pornography is a crime. Child sexualization generally isn’t a crime but society (rightfully) still sees it as wrong. But.... if one takes a photo of their child in the bath- is that child pornography it sexualization? What possible use could one have for a naked child’s photo? Is it better or worse if they never show it to anyone and it is only for them to see? One doesn’t take a picture for no reason. They want to save a memory or they find something pleasing to look at right? Now- most parents aren’t taking naked pictures of their kids because of sexual feelings right? But- if the guide post we use isn’t what the person taking the picture was feeling- but what ANYONE who might see it may feel- then any photo of a child could be porn to a pedophile- but especially certain ones like bath photos no?
guest_
· 4 years ago
It gets really icky really quick when we start breaking this stuff down and really getting in to it. So it’s normal that most people don’t want to think about the implications or the reasoning. We feel icky and that’s enough for us to say “nope.” But- art can make us feel icky. Art makes people feel. It makes us think about ourselves or the world or some aspect of either or other things.
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guest_
· 4 years ago
So I’m reluctant to join in on, and apprehensive about- wide spread condemnation of a film that most of the condemners haven’t seen- on the grounds it makes us feel icky. Sometimes the intent is to make you feel icky. To force you to face certain unpleasant realities. The precedent it sets to extinguish art for making us uncomfortable or trespassing into the socially taboo is dangerous.
mrscollector
· 4 years ago
Netflix put down the shovel you are almost to China.
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flyingoctopus
· 4 years ago
Iirc the movie synopsis makes it sound way worse than it is, it's more about the dangers of the culture that surrounds the weird sexualization of minors.
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mialinay
· 4 years ago
But it's rated MA. Wouldn't it make sense to "warn" kids and teens about those dangers? But only people over 18 are allowed to watch those 11yr olds dance sexually and barely clothed.
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scatmandingo
· 4 years ago
The message isn’t intended for the 11yos. It’s intended for their parents and the other adults around them to help them realize that young girls are under different pressures than they themselves were at that age. I have an 11yo and I want to see this movie. It might teach me something I don’t know about her current experiences in life that she may not be upfront about.
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raven
· 4 years ago
I've said it before and I'll say it again. A lot of French films are just porn with better plot.
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