I'm no fan of Trump, but the request is valid. There have been thousands of ballots that, usually, would be disqualified but are getting counted. Ballots without signatures, ballots without names even, some are from people born in 1923 but who were registered to vote in 1912. A recount might not even help Trump, but at the very least they need to audit the existing ballots with more discrepancy.
The rate of voting fraud overall in the US is less than 0.0009%, according to a 2017 study by the Brennan Center for Justice.
And as far as I know, votes have ALWAYS been counted after the election day as well. And why shouldn't they? Those are valid votes, why shouldn't they be counted? They had been sent before election day.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.bbc.com/news/amp/world-us-canada-53353404
Yeah the issue isnt counting mail in ballots after election day, it's that there isnt a lot of publically available auditing and a lot of ballots that have historically been disqualified, missing voter into, signature, irregular registration dates, are being counted. I'm saying in this specific election out of several polling places, local officials are being pulled out and state officials are taking over which itself is irregular and not open for public observation.
If it’s not open to observation... how do we know about it? Someone observed it....? There would of course, be some irregularities one might imagine, in an election conducted amidst a pandemic and quarantine. There haven’t been many of those. How do we know that ballots which do not meet the legal requirements to be counted are being counted? Do we have any evidence which isn’t merely word of mouth, that ballots which do not satisfy the legal requirements to be counted have been?
@guest_ Please tell me about the error of the reporting, the horrors of the world, the dichotomy of good and evil--maybe throw in a good recipe for the best possible chicken noodle soup.
All kidding aside, might not be fraud but it represents a massive failure on the part of county officials. At best, this will further damage the credibility of the election. Keep in mind, this error in the software could effect eithercandidate.
I mean there are hundreds of these kind of reports, so I'm not saying there is rampant fraud but I think you're definitely too cavalier about the fragility of the process.
Why in the hell would we stop counting votes?
They could make them invalid after the 3rd but get ALL THE VOTES! Fortunately It's not up to washington, voting Is done by individual states. !GTFO and go home cheeto man!
I think the compromise here would be better auditing of the mailed in ballots. If Trumps argument is possible fraud, then open and transparent verification of the votes coming in should be acceptable. Problem is, that's not really happening. Local polling officials were replaced by state officials and they've closed off any and all public access.
Ballots have been counted after November 3rd in every election in record. Many people, especially those who aren’t well versed in American Democracy, like Donald Trump, are conflating counting ballots that were submitted by Election Day with allowing new votes to be cast. No new votes are being allowed. Only counts of those made before end of polling.
With that out of the way, you can google your state/county and “ballot count live stream” to watch live video streams of ballot counts from around the country. So there IS transparency in the counts, as well as officials of the elections department overseeing and auditing.
I am not able to find any information on local election officials being replaced by state officials, nor any context for that- is it possible that some states have asked for help? Could @interesting provide sources for this claim? In 2016, a hotly contested election in which voting was close, over 25% of all ballots cast were mail in. Hillary Clinton won the popular vote by over 2 millions votes- Donald Trump won the presidential election based on electoral college votes which aren’t counted with your ballots. The ONLY place where the popular vote changes the outcome of an election are those places where electrons are bound by law not to be “faithless.” You see, in 2016, electors voted AGAINST what the people they represented wanted in several cases, overriding the popular vote.
So while election fraud and subversion of the will of American voters IS something to be concerned about, and outraged at where it occurs, one must remember that as was the case in 2016- the popular vote doesn’t really decide a presidential election anyway. The irony is that the popular vote DOES determine certain things, like which party holds seats in Washington or gets certain funding- election fraud upsets these things- but there is so much focus on it as it concerns the presidential race. It is common in close presidential races to request recounts. Mistakes are made and they can change the outcome of close races. But if there are massive conspiracies to “steal the vote,” like destroying ballots and such- there isn’t much reason to believe a recount would include ballots that had been destroyed is there?
Overall, there are a lot of claims that election fraud is going on, there is ALWAYS possibility of this, even if we take out the human element that can make honest mistakes (it’s not uncommon to find ballots that were accidentally left in the trunk of a car, or thought counted but not counted for example) hacking is a possibility as are other things- and that is true of any election including controversial ones like 2000 and 2016. But lots of accusations of a fix flying around, but very little evidence beyond saying things like “this seems odd..” or “they’re taking a long time..” or “well, the results in seeing aren’t the ones I like.”
The counts are in part taking a long time not just because of mail in ballots, but because of the scrutiny on this election and its importance. While states were not allowed to count votes before the election, they were allowed and was generally prudent to make the validations of mail in ballots. Can you provide sources and evidence for the claims that ballots are being counted that do not have signatures @intersting? Where does that information come from? If there isn’t transparency into the counts, how would anyone outside the ballot count know that ballots without verification are being counted?
People also need to realize, as said, that fraud or other practices won’t likely change a win in this election anyway. Seats for representatives and such might change, but the only legal challenge one could bring to the election results would be on a miscount of electoral ballots, or to force action in states where electors are bound by law to follow the popular vote. Even then, depending on the margin of victory either candidate won by, the number of electoral votes changed in that manner would have to be enough votes to give them both a majority and the superior majority of electoral votes. There would be legal consequences for those involved in fraud or gross negligence directly, but that wouldn’t change the presidential election because electors choose the president,
But for all the claims of fraud and foul play on all sides of the election, I haven’t yet seen any concrete proof that any fraud or foul play has occurred. I would like to read your sources @interesting, so I can research your allegations.
I mean they're actively reporting it out of PA polling stations and WI polling stations. Problem is most of those posts, tweets, and various reports have been taken down, deleted, or banned. I watched, live, on NBC PA and they reported it. Biggest problem right now is they're not investigating or opening it up publically on auditing procedures. I'm not sure an 8 page response was necessary for me very simply saying that a solid compromise would be opening up and allowing an audit for verification of the ballot information. Chain of custody has historically been very much required for every election, making how that's being maintained clear and public should not be too odd. ***edited for spelling
Project Veritas has some videos where they claim they have evidence of voter registration fraud and ballot tampering, specifically, Broward County where the Supervisor of Elections says they have evidence of voter registration fraud, and the USPS Whistleblower who claims he and other workers like him were ordered to stamp late ballots as on time to submit to the elections, Could be a bunch of nothing, but with how charged 2016-2020 was I doubt anything is as simple as it used to be.
KetKNBC reported an hour ago reports of people getting 18+ ballots to their homes, deceased people turning in ballots, and many irregularities that they're trying to investigate. Reported thousands of ballots that likely need to be disqualified. Problem is a lot of these videos are proactively being taken down off youtube and public sites under notes or election interference. Bit ironic but that's how it goes. If you cant catch them live you might be playing catch up.
Ok.. so your source is... people saying things? People can “report” that Kanye West snuck in their window and stole their ballot before they would fill it out. What is evidence- is when the people that SAY these things, have some form of proof to their accusations. Now, a few things may need considered here. 1. If people are reporting from all over from inside the polls that there is corruption going on..... that means they were able to observe it right? Which means there are people being able to audit these right? Do any of the countless live streams showing inside the counts at the polls have video that backs up any of these allegations? Did any of these people capture cell phone video or photos?
So the “lame stream media” is censoring the truth. Ok. Then have these whistleblowers taken their reports to federal authorities? Because- questions... 1. If there are federal crimes being committed here, what are we going to do about it? You post it on Facebook and hope the director of the FBI sees it..? Why wouldn’t you call the feds and report the crime? 2. If there are federal investigations or federal agents being dispatched to deal with these crimes- why is NO news outlet covering it- including “real news” and conservative sites? If there have been credible allegations of fraud, and evidence has been produced- why wouldn’t federal agencies be responding to them?
And lastly.... this one may shock many.... the counting isn’t done yet. After the counting is done, they don’t just “crown” the president the same day. They have a day for that- it’s called “Inauguration Day.” Between the results being declared and when that happens, people can bring criminal and civil charges against others for wrong doings, demand recounts, push for investigations by authorities into alleged wrong doings. Largely... in court. Largely.. requiring some proof.
Now, the president is a republican, and also a candidate in this election. The Supreme Court has 2 judges appointed by the current president. The current head of the FBI was out there by this present after sacking the last guy. The Republican Party has the majority control of upper branches of government. There are TONS of domestic and international news sites and agencies, including conservative leaning or outright conservative bias news agencies.... who aren’t reporting with evidence of fraud.
Anyone can post anything on social media- making an accusation of something or claiming to see something isn’t the same thing as showing evidence something happened. Being able to walk someone through how logical it is that soenthing probably happened based on a retelling of events isn’t evidence. Evidence are the things you gather to prove your theory is correct. A lot of people have theories on election fraud and how it is or would be done- where is the PROOF, or at least the actual hard evidence? Keeping in mind that evidence isn’t proof- but it is at least a step above conjecture, hearsay, and theory.
And lastly... when, in the history of ever- has it been common practice to allow random people free access to the area where votes are being counted? You do understand not just the HUGE risk of fraud that would create by itself- but also that ballots are confidential? Right? Who you voted for, and even wether or not you voted- those aren’t public information. That’s at the center of our democracy. Even auditors authorized to observe polls aren’t allowed to “look over the shoulders” of those checking ballots. Any and all sensitive information is protected as much as practical and prudent to preserve the integrity of the elections and the confidentiality required for a working democracy.
So my 8 pages of text, are sadly and painful necessary, because much of America, and even the world, is deeply invested in this election and offering opinions... but hasn’t taken the time to actually learn how the election process works- why it works like is does, and an alarming number of people don’t seem to even understand the concept of how the very logical sequencing of time itself works. These rules, have been rules, for months, years, centuries. And people finding out these rules exist fir the first time right now- want to change how they are done “on the fly...” not... you know... the last 3.5 or so years or any before that in which one would go about the process of changing laws and policies? People want to disqualify results before the ballots are even finished being counted.
Mate your response is extremely hyperbolic and you're hitting this from a very partisan viewpoint. You're also treating this like an argument when my original comment was about hey, I don't like trump but a happy compromise for everyone might be 'x' No, my sources arent 'someone said something' and your entire tone is extremely condescending. You seem like you're looking for an argument and you're looking for a reason to slam that keyboard.
How can you dispute results before there are even results to dispute? What would be the thought process here? Stop counting, let semi random people into polling places, let them riffle through every vote, counted or not, to verify that all the information for that voter is correct, and that it’s signed and filled out right, and then recount the entire election- while those same people observe AGAIN so no re count or re recount funny business s happens- until every person in America feels confident and agrees that only “proper” ballots are being counted the “proper way”?
You seem like you're looking for an argument and you're looking for a reason to slam that keyboard. KetKNBC is reporting it as we speak, the associated press, I mean just google NV polls.
Jesus christ dude. I also never said anything like 'lame stream media', it's extremely common knowledge that facebook and youtube are censoring a lot regarding the election and various polling results right now, including just discussing them.
And while people are in the counting area observing... who’s observing them? So say the counters don’t do anything wrong and all the ballots are “good” but we have these other people observing now- how can we say none of them did anything to swing the election? We need to make sure that the count rooms are open to people to observe the observers right?
But WAIT! No election ever has had these things we ask for. So then.... we must invalidate all previous elections and recount those too. Maybe Ross Perot was supposed to win and this thing goes deeper than we ever imagined?!?! So we can’t REALLY declare a 2020 winner until we go back- at least to the Clinton administration- and we make sure those results are correct too- since those previous results could have influenced the current results. We might have to dig up John Mccaine because this election may actually belong to him!
I tease of course- because it’s rather premature and absurd to be saying such things isn’t it? I mean- let’s say Facebook and Twitter weren’t taking down these stories of allegations of wrong... what uh.... what happens in that world? People on social media learn the truth and storm their local ballot count centers, take them by force and count the ballots themselves? I hope anyone reading this realizes that anyone can work the elections? The people working are largely volunteers.... from the communities and states where the elections are held.....
But as I said earlier- as far as outrage goes, yeah. Fraud matters. As far as the election goes.... maybe not. That’s.... kinda why.... we need to finish getting the results before we start questioning the results. So- say that EVERY ballot in the state of Arizona was filled out by Joe Biden himself- and he filled out 18+ for every voter. And wow. He wins Nevada. Ok. Now say that Biden wins the Carolinas and Georgia by significant margins, without fraud. And he’s declared the winner. Ok. So we call FRAUD! Nevada is a FRAUD! Well... ok. But if Biden wins the other states where there isn’t fraud- by enough ELECTORAL votes to be president- IT DOESN'T ACTUALLY MATTER.
Historically, recounts tend to shift a couple of hundred popular votes. Very rarely thousands. Generally... not enough to shift an election. But again... the popular vote doesn’t really matter. Our current president lost the popular vote and served a full term. Fraud doesn’t matter. We have solid evidence that foreign powers influenced the 2016 election- but we do not have proof that their interference would have changed the outcome. That’s an important distinction. There was election tampering in 2016- but no one has proved that tampering changed the election.
So let’s recap.
>an accusation is not evidence.
>evidence is not proof.
>you can’t dispute results when you don’t have results.
>no modern presidential election has had “open” ballot counting, that’s not how sealed and confidential ballots work... or even how security works. Let alone in a pandemic.
>the ballots aren’t burned. After the election results are announced, any EVIDENCE of fowl play can be INVESTIGATED.
>social media needs up to the minute gossip, and this would change things because.... reasons????
>limiting gossip on social media has nothing to do with election results. You don’t vote for a recount silly. You can’t vote to stop an election. There’s no part of what is happening right now that involves public action.
>even IF there is foul play or fraud- in context to who wins, that only matters if the fraud happens in a place and a way which would have changed the results of the election. “Fraud” doesn’t mean the other guy wins by default or would have won....
... it doesn’t mean that ALL the results are invalid. It just means that the results where the fraud occurred need re verified. It doesn’t mean that all the ballots or those results change. It means the ones proven to be fraudulent are removed and the risk is changed to reflect that.
>... probably most importantly.... and I will say it loud for the kids in the back... FOR CHOOSING A PRESIDENT, WE DONT USE THE POPULAR VOTE. DONALD TRUMP LOST THE 2016 POPULAR VOTE. THE MAJORITY OF AMERICANS DIDNT WANT HIM. THE ELECTORAL COLLEGE VOTED FOR HIM. THERE ARE ONLY 538 VOTES THAT ACTUALLY CHOOSE A PRESIDENT. IF ANY CHANGE TO THE POPULAR VOTE WOULDNT RESULT IN A CHANGE TO THOSE VOTES- IT DOESNT CHANGE THE RESULTS.
>ALOT of people need to learn how elections work and why.
@intersting- naw. I wasn’t saying you said “lamestream media” I was using quotation marks as that is a popular phrase I was quoting. Ironically, to mock people who actually use it. I’m not really stressed out, I won no matter who wins the election. Lotta people have stake in a winner- Kanye could win and I’d still come out on top. My upset isn’t directly at you- will fill ignorance, and gross idiocy are pet peeves of mine- and it’s been a tough couple decades on those fronts, but the last 8 or so years has been... wow. And this election is like the Chernobyl of idiocy from all sides. I can assure you I am not partisan on this issue- and if I am... I’m not a democrat by registration or affiliation. I spent 10 years volunteering against the democrats.
The mass spread of gossip and doubt about the election, without evidence or proof, before it is even over, just needs to stop. If someone has evidence or a solid case based on hard evidence- let’s hear it. Other than that.... there’s nothing to discuss on that front. As for arguments, I’m not looking for an argument. I’ve laid it all out. People can argue semantics and they can argue philosophy or they can argue from idiocy- but there isn’t any other argument to be had about what I have said. I have said it, it is true. To argue against me on this is the same as arguing the earth is flat or the sun is made or raisins. See previous comments on my dislike of idiocy and realize I’m not interested in arguing the world is it flat. I can explain to someone it is not flat and why- but if they don’t understand, I’m not looking to argue the point. It is what it is. The burden of proof is otherwise. It doesn’t lie in argument it lies in evidence. I have precedence,
Any argument of what I have said would need to be had with the courts- most likely the Supreme Court, who in precedence has upheld what I have said. But Supreme Court rulings aren’t subject to popular vote either- so what any random person thinks isn’t terribly relevant anyway here. Hence- not looking for argument, have not left rook for argument. People can fight the courts. They make policies, I’m just right about what they are and why.
Everything is fine, guest always has 8+ pages of words put together forming sentences. I'm enjoying his opinions so far, therefore he's right ..
Fraud, lies, conspiracies, cover ups, .. favorite statement is .. It's hard as hell to hide things. Anything illegal or flat our wrong is very hard to have many people hide or mislead things.
Trump's recent media show was simply a spew of false information. It's simply scary how someone can spit information that's entirely not true on such a large scale. Someone will always support someone they believe in, wether wrong or right.
Ive pissed my friends by sharing my opinion on this monumental moment in our history, We will all remember this week for the rest of our lives.
Thank you all for enjoying this with me, we're keeping it pretty respectful.. so far considering something so powerful on our planet.
Everything going on is keeping my mind busy until I get my New Series X connected to my New TV
Lol. Well said- and I feel like I’d think that even if I didn’t agree with you and you didn’t say a kind thing about me! I wrote so much that I didn’t get to touch on a very good point you bring up- the fact it’s hard to do doesn’t mean some mass conspiracy CANT happen- but I mean.... poll workers are largely volunteers from all walks of life and political views and demographics- spread across the country and.... some of these theories either involve the complacency of not just random people, but several government agencies at once, the news media, I mean..... I’m willing to believe fraud can happen. I’m 100% for following evidence of fraud in the election system... but like.... can we at least maybe be reasonable and investigate and maybe prove some lesser frauds in various places before we connect them all together as the largest and most blatant coup in US history outside the civil war?
Also- please tell me about the Xbox when you get it set up and have some time on it. I’m really tempted on the series X, but I don’t know that this early I’d see any real benefit. Eventually I’ll have to switch if I want to play new titles, but I try to wait until the price has broken, there are enough good titles, bugs and weaknesses are found, and that I’ve got everything out of the old system. But the X... it tempts me. Let me know please, if you feel like it, I’d read your review.
when he's winning -> Stop the count!
When he's losing -> count those votes!
Just like what he said on the dabate "I take full responsibility. It’s not my fault that it came here. It’s China’s fault."
The man does not know how to act properly.
.
I watched John McCain’s concession speech from the 2008 election, I must admit i do not know much of the men but watching his speech truly shows what a man supposes to act like, even when he does not win.
Now, when/if Trump loses (hopefully), what's he going say? can you imagine he being ( i wont say noble nor respectful bc that's much to ask) decent/polite about it and leave the office without making a joke outta of himself and America?
Michigan has reported a bug with the software designed to count the votes where 6,000 votes that had been counted for Trump had been switched to Biden in error. They also identified 42 other counties that used the same software, and have asked them to look through for other such errors.
And as far as I know, votes have ALWAYS been counted after the election day as well. And why shouldn't they? Those are valid votes, why shouldn't they be counted? They had been sent before election day.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.bbc.com/news/amp/world-us-canada-53353404
They could make them invalid after the 3rd but get ALL THE VOTES! Fortunately It's not up to washington, voting Is done by individual states. !GTFO and go home cheeto man!
>an accusation is not evidence.
>evidence is not proof.
>you can’t dispute results when you don’t have results.
>no modern presidential election has had “open” ballot counting, that’s not how sealed and confidential ballots work... or even how security works. Let alone in a pandemic.
>the ballots aren’t burned. After the election results are announced, any EVIDENCE of fowl play can be INVESTIGATED.
>social media needs up to the minute gossip, and this would change things because.... reasons????
>limiting gossip on social media has nothing to do with election results. You don’t vote for a recount silly. You can’t vote to stop an election. There’s no part of what is happening right now that involves public action.
>even IF there is foul play or fraud- in context to who wins, that only matters if the fraud happens in a place and a way which would have changed the results of the election. “Fraud” doesn’t mean the other guy wins by default or would have won....
>... probably most importantly.... and I will say it loud for the kids in the back... FOR CHOOSING A PRESIDENT, WE DONT USE THE POPULAR VOTE. DONALD TRUMP LOST THE 2016 POPULAR VOTE. THE MAJORITY OF AMERICANS DIDNT WANT HIM. THE ELECTORAL COLLEGE VOTED FOR HIM. THERE ARE ONLY 538 VOTES THAT ACTUALLY CHOOSE A PRESIDENT. IF ANY CHANGE TO THE POPULAR VOTE WOULDNT RESULT IN A CHANGE TO THOSE VOTES- IT DOESNT CHANGE THE RESULTS.
>ALOT of people need to learn how elections work and why.
Fraud, lies, conspiracies, cover ups, .. favorite statement is .. It's hard as hell to hide things. Anything illegal or flat our wrong is very hard to have many people hide or mislead things.
Trump's recent media show was simply a spew of false information. It's simply scary how someone can spit information that's entirely not true on such a large scale. Someone will always support someone they believe in, wether wrong or right.
Ive pissed my friends by sharing my opinion on this monumental moment in our history, We will all remember this week for the rest of our lives.
Thank you all for enjoying this with me, we're keeping it pretty respectful.. so far considering something so powerful on our planet.
Everything going on is keeping my mind busy until I get my New Series X connected to my New TV
When he's losing -> count those votes!
Just like what he said on the dabate "I take full responsibility. It’s not my fault that it came here. It’s China’s fault."
The man does not know how to act properly.
.
I watched John McCain’s concession speech from the 2008 election, I must admit i do not know much of the men but watching his speech truly shows what a man supposes to act like, even when he does not win.
Now, when/if Trump loses (hopefully), what's he going say? can you imagine he being ( i wont say noble nor respectful bc that's much to ask) decent/polite about it and leave the office without making a joke outta of himself and America?
it's the least i can do