Well the woman did participate in an activity that had the risk of getting pregnant, and did so knowing the risk. So she sacrificed her bodily autonomy willingly by participating in the activity.
What if the child will only live for a few months, a few weeks, a few days. All of it's life will be a tortured existence. How about that? Abortion OK then?
I guess you're right. I am talking about women and careless sex who don't accept the consequences, they should at least go through with it. I also think men shouldn't get away with it either, the mother should have to go through with it and the father should pay or something idk. It just really bugs me when people don't use protection and then get pregnant and go oh well I'll just abort it while there are others out there have to go through so much just to conceive.
I agree that abortion shouldn't really be used as "prevention" (not really prevention, but you get my point) when we have things like condoms, but giving birth shouldn't be used as a punishment. If you have unsafe sex and get pregnant there shouldn't be anything physically stopping you from aborting the embryo (it's an embryo, not a child, the first eight weeks or so), because how would you investigate that? It's like investigating rape. Most of the time there's literally no evidence. It's just one person's word against another's.
Let's say we follow your rule. A McDonalds employee has unsafe sex and gets pregnant. She's denied an abortion, and has to go through with it. She gives birth to a child she didn't even want, and she's on minimum wage and can't support both the baby and herself. What do you think will happen? How do you think that kid's life will be?
Let's take your comment down argument by argument. The mother has to go through a traumatic experience to give birth to a child she doesn't want, and she's stuck with the baby she didn't want the next 18 years. Father having to help is a great idea, but that doesn't have anything to do with abortion. People should use protection if they don't want a baby, but did you know that stupid people have sex too, only they don't use protection. Should they give birth to that child? Do we really need another stupid person, raised by stupid people who didn't even want him/her? People have to go through so much just to conceive, but if they didn't use protection and didn't abort the child they wanted it enough to go through all that.
Personally, I support abortion for that exact reason. I would love to live in a world where abortion wasn't needed, and I hope we will get there someday, but right now, we need it. Some people don't think about the consequences of unprotected sex, and I honestly believe that abortion may sometimes be the better choice for some kids than growing up in a home where you aren't wanted or loved. I think right now it can be the lesser of two evils.
Yes, I don't think they should have to raise it if they can't but jmo they should at least give birth to it and then give it up for adoption for people who try and can't conceive.
Bottom line, if a woman wants an abortion, she will get one. Legal or not. Safe or not. Better to give her the chance to do it safely and legally.
Puggle, You keep talking about wanting to but being unable to conceive. Food for thought.
What would the consequences be for a woman who put the child up for adoption? I know of no legal ramifications that would come of it. But the emotional baggage? The social baggage? Hm. Seems there is more to this than just giving the child up. May be that she hates the child she is carrying for what that man did to her. Displacement, sure, but I believe that the feelings she has are transferred to the child You know how that magic works. Then there would be the doctor visits that she doesn't want to go to, the changes wrought upon her body that she didn't want, the costs of food and drink. The sanity she would lose. Social wouldn't be so bad, but still, there would be the confirmation to the judgemental that this girl is in fact a slut.
Character limit.
She would be perceived as a Harlot even though she may have just been with the one man. The way her friends and family treat her after the child is given up for adoption. All because she was too chicken to raise the kid on her own. Think back to Maslow's Hierarchy of Needs. Even though most of us are introverts, social interaction is still important. Can any of you introverts say that you have nobody that you can talk to about anything even while just sitting there doing nothing? Think hard about that, I'm sure there is someone, maybe even someone that you are just comfortable with. I digress, her life will change, maybe for the better, maybe for the worse. Don't know, not until it happens, but that's how it goes.
I'm sorry but saying that we need abortion because it is the lesser of two evils is like handing out condoms to rapist to at least make sure that the victims don't get STD's. As long as the option to abort exists (excluding people who were raped or know that the baby is sick/won't live long) people won't be more careful, because they won't have to.
Dorkykong (love the name btw) has a good point and I agree so yeah that's why is a complicated subject. I am a woman and I get annoyed at (some) feminists that fight for "my body my choice" well you have the choice of birth control too! If circumstances would be too bad for the baby...I guess abortion is an unfortunate choice (although i'm pro life I don't judge) but don't claim it as is your well deserved choice!
When doesn't exist, they will fall down stairs more often, drink more, do harder drugs, find a coat hanger, go to a back alley, stress about the pregnancy so much that it aborts itself, stop eating. So, if you want to get rid of abortions, you'll need to be giving pregnant women psych evals the moment they become pregnant. They'll need to go into the psych ward if they don't want it... oh, nevermind. There are walls in the padded rooms.... better just lock them into the beds... that's real humane! http://www.protonus.ws/img/forum/wtfomg/oh_the_huge_manatee.jpg What are we to do?! Human Farms, that's the word I was looking for.
Re: the above about birth being a punishment, it's not. It's a natural consequence. It's also a very positive, fulfilling experience (according to everyone I know who's done it).
Tripod--would-be parents have to wait YEARS to adopt a baby. There simply aren't enough birth moms to go around. The whole "foster system overload" is crap (when talking about babies put up for adoption; the system IS over run with children taken from their parents; and yes, orphanages around the world are full, but international adoption is very expensive).
The issue isn't whether abortion is something you agree with or not, the issue is choice. I don't believe the government or any other body of people has the right to infringe upon the choice of a woman to terminate a pregnancy.
I disagree with the platypus. The issue isn't choice, the issue is abortion. Making it about choice is a psychological trick that makes it easier to defend a pro-abortion position. There are all kinds of other things that are illegal that we could say are about "choice", but that distorts the issue.
In short, it's only about choice if you want it to be (I.e. If you're pro-choice). But for pro-lifers, it's about abortion. I think that's part of why this debate is so fruitless -- the two sides are arguing about different points.
▼Reply
·
Edited 10 years ago
deleted
· 10 years ago
I've read this article twice already. Once last night where I couldn't figure out the meaning, and once today, where I still couldn't figure out the meaning. Which side is this dude on? Is he pro-abortion or against it? I think he is leaning more toward anti-abortion.
Neither. At least, we have no way of knowing. In the case of abortion two lives (if we can call an embryo a living human being) are involved. Should we give up the bodily autonomy of one person in favor of the bodily autonomy of another's? What if this was a fight between two identical people, both of which fight for their lives? Who has more right to live?
4
deleted
· 10 years ago
Not sure why I got downvoted for stating that I couldn't figure out which side he was on after multiple readings. I had a feeling that the commenter was middle of the road, but I wasn't sure.
My mother works at a cancer center and a pregnant lady came in and found out she had stage 2 bone cancer and she could either have a miscarriage or have an abortion and she chose abortion. My mom said there were literally dozens of people critizing the lady's decision because she's "killing a life" when it would've died anyway because of the chemotherapy.
+1 on posts about political stuff.
although i would like to say this. 93% of unborn children diagnosed with Down syndrome are aborted. It is a sad statistic, especially to me as i have a young daughter with Down syndrome. I consider her to be one of the best things to have ever happened to me and would never want her to be "normal". I love her for who she is, and part of who she is, is her Down syndrome. So, while my personal feelings about abortion are not favorable, i still think its wrong to make any female, for any reason, carry a child she does not want. No, i personally do NOT support abortion. But i am pro-choice because my personal opinion should not override or force someone else to do anything. My opinion has no rights over another persons body.
Just wanted to say that I know having a daugher with Down Syndrome is tough, my sister has something very similar, and I commend you. You must be a wonderful parent. I wish you and your family the best in life:) ok. bye :P
I know I’m late and this is a horrendous thought process and I am so happy your daughter has a good family! So please I apologize now but I think like the biologist I’m training to be. And eradicating a disability is favorable for the overall population. As it means that less people will suffer under any conditions that the disability coincides with. My 90 yr old grandma has to take care of her son still as he can’t take care of himself or even speak. And while this isn’t noticeable until late in life my aunt had ALS and she chose to not have kids due to the chance of them having the same sentence
Can I just say, a lot of the times it will suck for the baby either way? Abortion I think yes is abused by teens but being raped and being forced to raise that child you're probably not ready for at all? That is a reminder EVERY DAY that you're just someone's sexual toy and that child not having another parent KNOWING THAT ITS A RESULT OF A MISTAKE is horrible. It's life?
It would suck. A single parent struggling to raise you and probably having issues to love you or being adopted but being adopted isn't easy. Also, that rapist DNA or the mom's or some boyfriend may have some BAD genes. It was a mistake not thought through.
There are no such things as BAD genes in relation to rapists. People rape because it's a choice they make, not because they are genetically programmed to. Do not try to make rapists the victims of circumstances that aren't even real.
Hey, I'm a independent girl and I get it if girls don't want to have a baby. I also understand that there are situations like sexual abuse and others that is not a simple decision to "keep a baby" HOWEVER, I get annoyed by the "my body, my choice" thing...your body? then put some birth control in it! I used to know girls that had abortions (yes, plural) before being 18. I don't judge but c'mon some girls I understand is scary and a hard choice for different reasons. But those that are just irresponsible??? and so many women have to go to multiple in vitro to be able to experience the miracle of being a mom. So thank you for posting this
Not judging or taking a side here, but the basis of this argument really doesn't hold up. Bodily integrity is not an immutable law (or a law at all in the US) and whether it's unethical is a matter of opinion and certainly not one you'd find a general consensus on. There are plenty of people who believe that organ donation should be mandatory. In fact, I bodily integrity is a relatively modern concept. Any medical school that existed in the early 1900's regularly bought corpses to use to further medical science with the rationale that is was part of the greater good. Just FYI.
I dont think you should get an abortion but only partly because your killing a baby. Abortions are very dangerous and harmful to you body because your body isnt ready for the baby to be removed at the months when an abortion takes place. A lot of times women go into labor when they are getting an abortion because it is pur body's defence against the baby trying to be fearfully removed. Its your body and you can do whatever you want with it, I cant make you keep a baby that you dont want but what I wish more women would see is sometimes giving a little piece of your life away for a family that cant have children is safer for your body and it will create a family that moght not have happened without you. (P.S. women do die from abortion, it isnt an everyday occurrence but it happens.)
If we can give dead people bodily autonomy, why aren't we giving living unborn humans bodily autonomy? Yes, they are human beings at conception. That's scientific fact. Personhood is the debatable term.
Bodily autonomy is a poor rationalization. Life begins at conception. It is not my 'view', it is scientific fact. Genetics proves it. Not religion. I am atheist. Abortion kills. You can delude yourself. Truth cannot be perverted.
When does life begin? If you do not know the answer to that how can you even suggest otherwise. If you wish to kill, go ahead. Just have the courage and integrity to acknowledge and accept responsibility. Whether you do it or promote it, you are complicit. Your 'CHOICE'.
Our society is just as barbaric as the ancient Romans who watched people kill eachother in arenas. This is sickening that people exist who are ok with the murder of a child. I'm not going to argue, I won't respond to any comments, just want to express my disgust with the murder of children.
▼
deleted
· 10 years ago
hey im glad you said it cause i wanted too. I also don't want to argue i just have one thing to say: It feels like more and more lately that funsubstance has people putting up things that are more political/or value based then funny. I don't see how this post is funny from any stance. This isn't push-your-political-agenda-substance its funsubstance. And i dont think this kind of thing is fair from any side. i don't come on here to see things that may or may not upset other people, i don't care what 'side' 'political stance' 'values' or what ever let's just be fun :) (go ahead and hate, i just wanted to say)
Although I disagree with your personal view on abortions, I completely agree with the posts about political stuff. Anything political/religious/moral based is bound to offend somebody and it's not fair for those of us who just want to read and comment on funny things
A bit of education never killed anybody...politics and moral are a part of our world so in my opinion it's okay to have some posts about that in here too
Sometime even posts about politics can be funny
Let me tell you a story about a darker place on the internet. It started out as a place where anyone could post whatever they wanted about video games. This was acceptable for a while; however, the posts became ever darker and even more debased with political, entertaining, and other... ah.... things. Soon, the heads of the site made it into another branch and increased the monitoring on the previous area.
My point is thus: no matter what, you will always have other things around. Best you can do is leave it be.
Citing rule of the internet number 14. Never argue with trolls- it means they win.
Although, it is delicious cake, you must eat it.
I agree on both sides of this actually. I come to funsubstance to laugh and take my mind of my stress of the day. I'm Venezuelan, so we do need that more than ever. I also enjoy the "faith in humanity" posts and the informative ones. In addition, like I mentioned, being venezuelan and the fact that sometimes some political views are included I think are a creative way of sharing your point of view as well as information. And I assure you my country would not be in the situation that it is now if people would had been better informed (their own fault) NOW i'm not pushing MY agenda, just adding to the comment somebody mentioned. A little information doesn't hurt, but yeah we come here mostly for the funny. SO THANK YOU ALL OF YOU FOR MAKING ME SMILE EVERYDAY :)
It's easy to argue something through prose because oh simplistic rhetoric and implementation of numerous logical fallacies that easily sway an audience
If they didn't want to get pregnant they should have kept there legs closed.At least the baby's soul will go to earth through a nice human being, not some whore who doesn't use protection
Let's say we follow your rule. A McDonalds employee has unsafe sex and gets pregnant. She's denied an abortion, and has to go through with it. She gives birth to a child she didn't even want, and she's on minimum wage and can't support both the baby and herself. What do you think will happen? How do you think that kid's life will be?
Puggle, You keep talking about wanting to but being unable to conceive. Food for thought.
What would the consequences be for a woman who put the child up for adoption? I know of no legal ramifications that would come of it. But the emotional baggage? The social baggage? Hm. Seems there is more to this than just giving the child up. May be that she hates the child she is carrying for what that man did to her. Displacement, sure, but I believe that the feelings she has are transferred to the child You know how that magic works. Then there would be the doctor visits that she doesn't want to go to, the changes wrought upon her body that she didn't want, the costs of food and drink. The sanity she would lose. Social wouldn't be so bad, but still, there would be the confirmation to the judgemental that this girl is in fact a slut.
She would be perceived as a Harlot even though she may have just been with the one man. The way her friends and family treat her after the child is given up for adoption. All because she was too chicken to raise the kid on her own. Think back to Maslow's Hierarchy of Needs. Even though most of us are introverts, social interaction is still important. Can any of you introverts say that you have nobody that you can talk to about anything even while just sitting there doing nothing? Think hard about that, I'm sure there is someone, maybe even someone that you are just comfortable with. I digress, her life will change, maybe for the better, maybe for the worse. Don't know, not until it happens, but that's how it goes.
In short, it's only about choice if you want it to be (I.e. If you're pro-choice). But for pro-lifers, it's about abortion. I think that's part of why this debate is so fruitless -- the two sides are arguing about different points.
although i would like to say this. 93% of unborn children diagnosed with Down syndrome are aborted. It is a sad statistic, especially to me as i have a young daughter with Down syndrome. I consider her to be one of the best things to have ever happened to me and would never want her to be "normal". I love her for who she is, and part of who she is, is her Down syndrome. So, while my personal feelings about abortion are not favorable, i still think its wrong to make any female, for any reason, carry a child she does not want. No, i personally do NOT support abortion. But i am pro-choice because my personal opinion should not override or force someone else to do anything. My opinion has no rights over another persons body.
Sometime even posts about politics can be funny
My point is thus: no matter what, you will always have other things around. Best you can do is leave it be.
Citing rule of the internet number 14. Never argue with trolls- it means they win.
Although, it is delicious cake, you must eat it.