I'm from Sweden and this really makes no sense to me

Or she haha sorry

Erm... what? Punctuation is a wonderful invention, you know, you should use it.

xD Oh, no worries yeroc. And Guest, um.. I'm not European, by the way?

Well i am talking about when he said mexicans are rapist. I get what he tried to say (for a big part of americans we are all mexicans and when they watch the local news many of them are hispanics robbers or what not) but i agree he knows (i believe) we are not all that and what you say it is true. Too bad people take it to the extremes in both groups. Those who simply say he hates hispanics aka mexicans and thise whi think all "mexicans" are bad

I can get behind that.

I don't buy it every time he says something racist he tries to sugar coat it by going now I know /some/ are not like that I have many [incert race/relgion here] friends and they call me and they say well you know you are right. Also the fact that he says some and not most shows that he believes the majority are criminals and rapists while the minority are hardworking good people.

but he IS bending what he says to appeal to people, its why half the time when talks he just repeats what he said without any clarifying information. ive never seen anyone talk so much while saying so little, and when asked for clarification or for plans on how hes gunna do any ofhte nonsense he just rephrases and adds in a different sound bite, all just words that can be interpreted by the listener to mean whichever version of his agenda they like best.

Yeah, it's politics. If you've never heard someone talk do much and say so little you haven't been paying attention.

But at least other politicians have backed up their points by presenting some ideas on how it can be done. All he does is scream "let's make America great again!". The closest thing he has to a plan is building a wall and he doesn't even have an idea on how to do that. I'm sorry that I don't see how building a wall and singling out certain races is supposed to make the states any better.

People are supporting him because he's supposedly honest and just says what he thinks but guestwho just said themselves that he's just like every politician and just saying what people want to hear. I don't understand how people fall for the obvious crap he continuously spews.

The idea of the wall is not singling any one out, it is securing our borders from those who wish us harm. You cannot have a country if anyone can simply come on in as they please.

Have you seen borders in other countries where they are simply lines in pavement? Where's all the violence there? You all speak of the dangers of Mexico but have you actually been there, spoken and lived among those people? Well I have, I visited for a full summer been to some of the worst areas and slept there no one was nothing but kind. I'm not saying the violence doesn't exist because like in every country there are good and bad people but assuming it's exactly how the media portrays it is just ignorant.

If it isn't singling anyone out then why isn't he suggesting we do the same on the north side with Canada?

Simply because we do not have a flood of illegals coming across the Canadian border every single day. The southern border is a problem. Your other countries with the line do not have an ongoing problem with their neighboring countries. Those that do have CLOSED AND GUARDED BORDERS. And yes, smart ass, I have been to Mexico. So what? Whether some or most or all of them are decent people makes no difference. The act of coming here illegally makes them criminals. Even if it did not, have you not heard of the violence there because of the drug cartels? How do we know ISIS is not coming in along with your good people? In fact, border agents and regime officials have stated that they have. Come on, you people cannot really be this uneducated can you?

Btw I have been to Canada too. And I had a HELL of a lot more trouble coming across the northern border than I did coming back from Mexico.

In your huge rant you in no way explained how building a wall is a proper solution. You haven't proved me wrong you only made yourself look bad by putting forth insults. Building a giant wall will in no way stop bad people from coming in or even slow them down. You act like they're the only country with violence while here in the states we constantly have shootings, gang wars, looters, etc. How about you stop pointing fingers at other countries and accept that ours isn't even close to perfect.

There was not one insult in my post. I never said building a wall was an answer so it's no surprise I did not explain how it is the proper solution. What is your point here? Are you saying that since we already have violent criminals here we may as well leave the doors open? As far as someone making themselves look bad, your ignorance reflects poorly on you, not me. Logic and reason are lost on you. I weep for the sad state of our education system.

Ps. That was no insult either. Ignorance is the state of not knowing something, and you obviously only know hatred and bigotry. Sad.

Woah hatred and bigotry? You're the one stating that people coming here illegally are all criminals and bashing me because I disagree with you. You are the one who threw logic out the window. When trump speaks everything is me, me, me. "I am a very rich and successful man" "I say what I think" "someone based a hateful character on me? I should be payed." He constantly goes on about himself but doesn't push any realistic ideas on how to help our country which clearly needs help. I don't want my country run by someone who wants to take advantage of the presidency to better their own life.

Someone coming in illegally doesn't mean they are coming in to commit violent acts. A lot of the time it's a lot easier for someone to come in illegally keep their head down and then work towards fixing their legal status. It's a shame that people who want to better their lives and provide for their families are forced to give up the only money they have left and face harsh almost impossible circumstances, even death just to get the tiniest opportunity at something better.

I am not a Trump supporter. We already have a guy in there that speaks "me, me, me, I, I, I." Please learn to read English and re-read my post. People coming here illegally ARE criminals by virtue of the fact that doing anything illegal is a CRIME. But I said more than that. I also alluded to the fact that the "good" people who are only criminals because they came here ILLEGALLY are the least of our concerns. Disagreeing with you is not "bashing" you. Pointing out your ignorance on this topic is not "bashing" you. And yes I said hatred. You are displaying hatred and intolerance of Mr Trump, me, and anyone else who dares "bash" you by pointing out your fallacy.

I don't believe a certain person is fit to lead a country so suddenly I'm full of hatred? I actually applaud him for what he's accomplished in business, I think he's a funny guy. But the presidency is a completely different thing and he's not putting forth anything that indicates he will better the country like he claims he is going to do. Hating him is impossible as I do not know him personally hating you is impossible as this is the only contact we've had. We carry different opinions, cool. But we share similarities in that we live in the same country, we agree we have issues beyond immigration. What I am saying is we need to elect leaders that have ideas on how to make that possible not just saying they want to make things better without backup.

Again, no one has claimed that all of those coming in illegally are doing so with the intention of committing violent acts. Can you really argue that the possibility is not something we should consider? As to those who simply want a better life, GO THROUGH THE PROPER DAMN CHANNELS and welcome to you. I have a friend from Indonesia. She is MARRIED to a U.S. serviceman. She went through the proper legal chanels and it took her 5 years to get a green card. Is it fair to her that someone else just walks across the border and people like you want to welcome then with open arms? The government still will not allow her to get a job. She wants to work, contribute to our society, pay taxes, live the American dream and the government says NO. Is it fair to her that people like you want to put illegal immigrants to the front of the line, or worse, give them welfare, free education, and free healthcare when she has had to fight and jump through hoops for years?

My mom went through those "proper" channels she came through by being hired to work in the fields. The problem is that our proper channels are shit. They make it nearly impossible for people to use those channels some people cannot afford to go through those methods. My mom put a lot of money into doing it the proper way and she could only do that because she was already here and had a job that allowed her to hire lawyers, even then she was in this country for over 20 years and still was denied until my brother filed for her, she got lucky she had her children here. Other people don't get as lucky as she did. It's outrageous that what she went through is considered lucky. We are a country made up of immigrants why are we making it nearly impossible for people to come through? I'm not saying we don't need regulation and that people should just be able to come through I'm just saying that we need to improve on the process we have.

Jesshawaka i just want to add on to one of the first things you said about singling out a certain group. I often notice that a lot of people put their focus mainly on our southern borders when speaking of illegal immigration, but what I dont hear often is how these latin countries shouldn't be the only concern. There a plenty of illegal European immigrants that come through Canada, and most fly right under the radar. So I totally understand all that you said above.

Yes we are a country of immigrants but it is our country. We have a right and responsibility to control who gets in. If someone wants in our club they must play by our rules. Could the rules stand to be tweaked a little here and there? Yes, I believe so, but that doesn't make it ok to ignore them outright. When immigrants, such as your mother and my friend do get in, by all means participate in the process and change the rules. If course participating in the process includes assimilation into our "culture", which does not always happen. Few people are aware that legal immigration was completely stopped from the 20s to the 60s so that the flood of immigrants we had around the turn of the century could assimilate. As to Trump's idea to temporarily stop Muslim immigration, it is already a federal law that we can do that. It was passed by a Democrat congress and signed by a Democrat president in 1952, and used by a Democrat president in 1979 to deport and ban Iranians.

Amormaree, yes we have illegal immigrants coming from Canada, and stowing aboard ships at every port, and this is also a concern. But the southern border is litteraly being flooded. An emergency room doctor would tend to the six inch gash in a car crash victim's stomach before worrying about the scrapes on his arms. You have to fix the worst mess first.

How do you assimilate into a culture that isn't specific at all? Our culture consists of a mish mosh of cultures from all around the world it's not exactly easily to assimilate when the culture changes from region to region. I lived my entire life in a town where the majority were hispanics and blacks. The culture was geared more towards those specific races even what you could find at walmarts was different and later I moved to a town where the majority was white and the way people acted was different what they sold was different the way they spoke was different. Assimilating isn't exactly easy in a place so diverse.

Amormaree, thanks that's exactly what I meant our southern border isn't our only problem although I agree with guestwho that it is our dominant one. However, I also meant that the wall suggested by trump will not fix the problem just force people to become a little more creative in the ways they enter.

Assimilation does not mean lack of diversity. This would be a pretty boring place if we were all exactly the same. It means forging an identity as Americans, not as Mexicans who just happen to live in another country, as Pakistanis who just happen to live in another country, etc. When AMERICAN schools in AMERICA refuse to allow the AMERICAN pledge of allegiance or displaying of the AMERICAN flag because it offends a segment of population that is SUPPOSED TO NOW BE AMERICAN, we have a major fucking problem. Immigrants from 100 years ago WANTED to become Americans, and did, without losing their cultural identity. Immigrants today want to remain whatever nationalities they happen to be, and think that WE should conform to their way of life. THIS IS A PROBLEM THAT MUST BE ADDRESSED.

Why is flying our flag in a school so important, why should we say our pledge every day? I love my country and I love being part of it but I don't display our flag all over my home and I don't wake up and immediately say our pledge every day. The flag banning has only happened in very few cases and they ban all flags not just the american one. It's not like all across america students are now forced to pray multiple times a day. The thing is certain areas will be geared towards specific cultures all across America in my old town we had multiple mexican stores and restaurants, a good percentage of the people spoke spanish. It's why we have china towns in multiple areas, it's why you'll see that certain areas have mosques while other areas are devoid of them.

Maybe because it's our God damned country and we should be proud of it! What in hell kind of ignorant ass anti-American comment is that? What in hell is wrong with you? If you have a problem with my country, please get the hell out. You are pathetic.

I pledge allegiance to the Flag of the United States of America, and to the Republic for which it stands, one Nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all. There, am I pro-American now? Because obviously me stating my love and pride for my country isn't enough.

Pathetic.

Wow. Sounding a little jingoistic there.
Seriously, I am about the most American person on the face of the planet, but loyalty to one's country is inspired by a love and understanding of one's country, not a cultural mandate. There are times when I have to look at us and lovingly sigh, "Dammit, America."

Exactly, I love our country and I'm the first to cheesily cover myself in the American flag on the 4th of July. But we can be proud of our country while also acknowledging we have some aspects that'll make us think "wtf, America" it comes with the package, we're not perfect.

Jingoistic? Damn, big words. From Merriam-Webster: jingoism - "the feelings and beliefs of people who think that their country is always right and who are in favor of aggressive acts against other countries." A belief that Americans should be AMERICANS, and not whatever nationality they happen to be and just living in America is not exactly jingoism. A belief that one should be proud enough of being an American to WANT to fly the American flag is not exactly jingoism. A belief that someone living in America who is offended by the American flag can go directly to hell is not exactly jingoism. Please learn the proper use of epithets before throwing them.

Jess, nowhere have I said we are a perfect nation, and nowhere have you said why we should not fly our own flag.

"Jingoism" is hardly an epithet, it's a word coined for a phenomenon that's happened repeatedly in our - and I'd probably say every - country. We're currently in the middle of a particularly strong streak. And yeah, I consider it jingoistic when someone tells another person to go to hell over a flag. You seem to keep ramping up the aggresssion in this thread, and I'm not entirely sure why.
Immigrants coming to the US don't magically lose their culture or ties overnight - that's why we have and use like Mexican-American and German-American. We're a nation of scraps and bits and bobs, from our Christian religious extremist roots to the Irish fleeing the potato blight to the mishmash of current influxes. And these same accusations - of alternate loyalties and treasonous intent - have been leveled at every major immigrant group we've seen. Give 'em a couple generations, they'll fit right in.

You purposely miss the point. Yes we are a nation of "bits and bobs" as you say, but those bits have always congealed into Americans until recently. Too many immigrants, and natural citizens for that matter, refuse to become Americans and try to be something else. Have you ever heard the term "melting pot"? Do you understand it's meaning? No one melts together anymore, and too many misguided individuals like yourself cannot see that this is a problem. Instead of people, cultures, and traditions blending together to make a flavorful gumbo we have a pile of your scraps, each stubbornly clinging to their own unique flavor and refusing to meld with the other ingredients in our stew. Flour, yeast, tomatoes, and milk would not be an appetizing dish, but blended together these individual ingredients, and more, become a delicious pizza. What you get when you have leftovers, scraps, bits and bobs whose flavors clash and can not be blended into a new dish, is nothing more than pig swill.

Yes, but (to continue your gumbo metaphor), you're talking about dumping the ingredients into the pot and expecting them to suddenly be gumbo. That takes time. Two hours makes crap fast-food gumbo, six hours makes decent stuff, and no time at all makes.... a mess of crap with okra slime and crunchy rice grains.

The problem is that many, not all, but many of our ingredients these days refuse to blend. Irregardless, (Yeah I know that's improper English but I've always found it fun to say) this dialogue began with a discussion of flags and patriotism. Our question here isn't how long it takes to assimilate, but rather whether they ever will. Do you really think that a group of immigrants that now complain that seeing an American flag here in America is oppressing them will, in any amount of time, embrace the "American way of life"? How long do you think we should simmer and season our stew before we give up, throw it out, and call for Chinese?

Like I said, give it a couple of generations. The first generation will probably hang onto resentment. The second generation, going to an American school, will largely take one of two directions: If they feel rejected, made an outsider because of their heritage, they may hang onto their parents' resentment. Or, if they feel like they're a reasonably integrated part of their peer group, their parents will become "uncool" and they'll "American" as hard as they can.

I just translated it to English, if you want to know what it says :)

Thanks. Not exactly accurate in this case but much easier to read! ;-) As i said, he has a lot of support from minorities so... Racist? I don't see minorities supporting a racist. Keep in mind that the fallback in this country when a Republican disagrees with a Democrat is to call him/her a racist. When the Republican is a minority they are called traitors.

When I say racist I refer to the many times he has oppressed hate and discrimination against Mexicans and Muslims. If you want a specific ethnic or national group out of your country, I think you're pretty racist. But maybe that's just me.

Okay, *sigh* one more time. He has only talked about ILLEGAL immigrants being deported/prevented from entering. And many people from these minority groups SUPPORT him! Pay attention!

Yeah, sure, but how about his talk about how Muslims should be banned from the US? He literally said "by the way, many, many, most Muslims are wonderful people, but is there a Muslim problem? Look what’s happening. Look what happened right here in my city with the World Trade Center and lots of other places [...] I mean I could have said, ‘Oh, absolutely not Bill, there’s no Muslim problem, everything is wonderful, just forget about the World Trade Center.’ But you have to speak the truth. We’re so politically correct that this country is falling apart."

http://uk.businessinsider.com/donald-trumps-epic-statement-on-mexico-2015-7?r=US&IR=T All about how he wants to get rid of Mexicans

Perhaps calling it a "Muslim problem" is not the best way to reach the PC segment, but all these terror attacks the world over have one thing in common: MUSLIMS. I wonder how many people would be defending Christians if it were Presbyterians murdering people. I could not get your link to open but EVERYTHING I have heard or read from Trump on Mexicans was about those here illegally. HERE ILLEGALLY. Yes, those in this country illegally, regardless from where in the world they come, SHOULD BE DEPORTED. Or at least, found, vetted, legally processed, and allowed to stay under the same terms as those who go through proper chanels and wait years for a green card.

The link had quotes from Trump when he had talked about how Mexicans should be deported because most of them are rapists and other stuff like that. Nowhere did it say 'illegal Mexicans'. He just said that Mexicans are a problem. Mexicans. That means all Mexicans. Even the legal refugees.
He even wants to build a wall separating Mexico from America, and he even wants the Mexicans to pay for it, and build it. How is this different from the Berlin Wall? Treating other people like animals just because they have a different skin coulour or religion?
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And just because Daesh says that they are Muslims, which I say they're not, it doesn't mean that all Muslims should be banned from the US. The KKK say that they are Christians, right? But I don't see a racist fuck banning Christians from a country as powerful and popular as the US.

You are hearing without listening. ISIS (the first I is Islamic but I guess that doesn't make them Muslim either) is but one of many terrorist groups. EVERY terrorist has claimed to be Muslim, including ISIS. Couple that with the number of Mosques and Imams that have been proven to be recruiting and training terrorists and by God I'd say that's a pretty damn good reason to give Muslims a little more scrutiny. Your KKK argument proves your ignorance on the subject. NO ONE supports or makes excuses for the Klan, and they are history, anyway. The KKK did not hide who they were, and only attacked specific targets, which made them easier to eradicate. These particular terrorists are something else entirely.

Sure, maybe I went a little bit off topic with the KKK thing, but I still do not, in any way, agree with you when you say that Daesh are Muslims. Nowhere in the Quran it says that you can kill a man if he doesn't tnink like you. Nowhere in the Quran it says that the lifestyle that Daesh live by is right.
Yea they've said that they are Muslims, but that does not make them Muslims. They just THINK they are Muslims. I can say that I'm a frog, and go around with green paint on my body, but that doesn't make me a fucking frog, now does it?
And even if they were Muslims (which they are not), that doesn't have to mean that every Muslim thinks like them. Islam is the second biggest religion in the world, do you really think that every single Muslim agrees with Daesh?
My mom is a proud Muslim, and she hasn't killed anyone. My dad is a Muslim, and his best friend is Christian. My sister is Muslim, and she lives in a Christian country. I didn't know that made them into terrorists.

Are you kidding me? THEY SAY THEY ARE MUSLIMS! You act like I'm personally making this up. ISIS says they are Muslim. EVERY damn terrorist claims to be Muslim. And again, you are not paying attention: neither I nor anyone else I am aware of has claimed that EVERY Muslim is a terrorist. But the fact remains EVERY TERRORIST IS MUSLIM.

Actually that statement is completely false. There have been terrorist attacks based on "Christian" agendas, not including the Crusades, there have been a number that have occurred on American soil. Examples include the Los Angeles Times Bombing, the Unabomber, the Wall Street Bombing, Oklahoma City Bombing, the Wisconsin Sihk Temple Shooting, the Cential Olympic Park Bombing, and recently the Planned Parenthood shooting. Not all terrorists are Muslim

Those were not "terrorist" attacks by the common use of the term. Those were "lone wolf" attacks. While the international law enforcement community has had difficulty agreeing on a singular definition of "terrorist", the common use has been in reference to persons affiliated with a group or groups with a common political goal. The events you cite had no connection to any factions. Try again.

Terrorism: the use of violence and intimidation in pursuit of political aims
Good sir,
The Los Angeles Times Bombing was one of many planted nationwide in a wave of iron manufacturing plant bombings for four years on behalf of the National Erectors' Association. They were bombings planned and executed by an iron union.
The Unabomber I will admit was a poor example.
The Wall Street Bombing was carried out by Galleanists, a GROUP responsible for a SERIES of bombings in wake of social unrest due to labor struggles and anti capitalist agitation.
The Wisconsin Sihk Temple Shooting was a lone wolf, but was a member of a Neo Nazi organization that supported the attack.
The Centennial Olympic Park Bombing was organized and executed by the Army of God, a CHRISTIAN TERRORIST ORGANIZATION
We can for the sake of argument say that the Planned Parenthood attack was a lone wolf and therefore not a terrorist attack by your standards, but all of the rest most certainly are.

So, try again.

Doesn't change the fact that an awful lot of assholes are killing an aweful lot of innocent people in the name of Islam. What is your point, it's all good cause other goblins have killed people too?

Also! While we're at it lets list some Christian terrorist groups! I encourage you to research them after I've listed.
The Lord's Resistance Army
Ku Klux Klan
Antibalaka (a Christian organization that kills Muslims)
The Aryan Nations
The Orange Volunteers
Catholic Reaction Force
The Protestant Reaction Force.
All of which are active today and continue to kill innocent people. And none are Muslim

And... your point, I guess, is that it's ok for achmed to kill whoever he wants because some obscure assholes have done it on a much smaller scale sometime in the distant past? We have a global problem with Islamic violence.

Wtf dude? No. My POINT is that you are wrong in saying that all terrorists are Muslim. Can you really not admit that you were wrong? I'm an atheist to be honest so I think that ANY violence over ANY religious agenda is stupid, Christian or Muslim or Buddhist or Satanist or Scientologist or Hindu or what ever else!
We have a global problem with violence.
Why you are trying to pull me off point and degrade my character I can only venture to guess is a defense tactic to avoid the point of my argument that your statement is false.

@guestwho
Why do you say every terrorist is a Muslim? Your personal experiences are nothing compared to the worldwide statistics.
@knightangel
Snippy additions (good sir, so try again) make you sound impatient and lash-back-ish. Make a statement, back it up, and leave it.

But I will say that ISIL is an incredibly Islamic faction.

I agree tylerchu, I do apologize for my snippy comments. It was uncalled for and not of funsubstance standards, I just get frustrated, but I definitely need to keep it in check

Look, why don't we just agree on this: Daesh are horrible "people", who kill people in the name of Islam. Maybe we have different perspectives on wether they are Muslims or not, but that doesn't matter. I think we should stand tall and work together agains ISIS, instead of fighting over how bad they are.
All of this made me think of my uncle who died in one of the terror attacks, so I just went ahead and donated some money to the Syrian refugees. I think that's way more helpful to humanity, than to sit on my chair and argue with strange people.

All: I have no perspective on whether ANY of these people are Muslim or not. I am not assigning them a religion or cause. THEY ARE THE ONES SAYING THEY ARE MUSLIMS AND COMMITTING THESE ATROCITIES IN THE NAME OF ALAH! It matters not whether you think they are Islamic, they think they are.
I did not mean that litteraly EVERY murder in the history of the world has been committed by Muslims, and I think you probably know that.
Point is that you keep arguing that these people are not Muslim when THEY argue that they are. What I cannot understand is people defending these animals and twisting themselves into pretzels trying to excuse their actions.

Who are you referring to? Me? I'm not excusing their actions. I've explicitly stated that I think that any terrorist action in the name of any religion or any cause is stupid. All I was doing is showing you that your statement that all terrorists are Muslim is false. There are terrorists today that kill innocent people that are a member of every religion. There are even Buddhist monks in Myanmar right now hanging Muslims by the dozen simply because they are Muslim. My point is that we do not have a global issue of Islamic violence. We have a global issue of violence. In all religions. Some are just covered by the media more than others so it appears as though we have a specific group to blame for all the world's evil. I'm not excusing ISIS, I'm saying that the picture is bigger than ISIS. That violence is spreading throughout all religions, not just Islam. And it cannot be fixed until it is addressed as such

And to honeyjar, I am so sorry for your loss, I agree that sitting in my chair aruinf with a stranger will accomplish little as compared to donating to refugees, but I also think that educating people, if only one at a time, is useful as well. My boyfriend of over a year is Iranian, and his family are Muslim, and I get very tired of hearing so many poor things about the Muslim community when everyone that I have seen and been with are beautiful, peaceful people. If anything they kill you by feeding you so much that you want to die

I was not necessarily referring to either of you specifically. I think I said more than once, not all Muslims are terrorists, but these terrorists claim to be Muslims. Your repeted claims that they are not and that I or others are claiming they are does not change that fact. Denial does not solve this problem for any of us.

@guestwho
You've changed your argument slightly. Initially you said that all terrorists are Muslim and that's what knightangel reacted so violently to. But now you seem to have tempered that and are now saying that ISIL is Muslim (which they undoubtedly are). And if that is the case there are no grounds for more argument.

I have not exactly changed my argument; I was only referring to the attacks that most people associate with terrorism. Paris, Charlie Hebdo, San Bernardino, Boston Marathon, 9/11. ISIS, BokoHaram, al-Quada, and on and on claim to be Muslim. That is my argument. When groups claiming to be Christian commit such acts Christians condemn them and the govt targets churches. Just saying. Denial does not change the facts.

Christian radicals do something bad and other Christians condemn them.
Islamic radicals do something bad and other Muslims condemn them.
Yes no maybe so?

I have never once said that I do not think that Islamic terrorists are not Muslim. They claim to be Muslim so therefore they are Muslim. I can't even say that they don't practice true Islam because all religious texts are open for interpretation, hence why there are so many versions of Christianity and argument about what verse means what. I know that you are referring to the attacks that most people associate with terrorism. That is why I gave you multiple other terrorists organizations that are not Muslim, to prove my point. I think that you might have me and the original person that you were conversing with (honeyjar) mixed up. Also, excellent point tylerchu

I'd like to re-point out that ISIL is a puritan Islamic faction. They want to live life as Muhammad himself did.

Whether they are mainstream or fringe lunatic, my only point has ever been that we cannot take Islam out of any conversation on the problem. Blaming all Muslims is not the answer, but denying that there is SOME Islamic connection SOMEWHERE in the mix is not an answer either. I do not pretend to have a solution, and even if we exterminated every Muslim, the terrorists have been great at recruiting lost souls to their cause, so... I just know we cannot afford to not have conversations.

The leadership of ISIL is very Islamic. Terrifyingly Islamic. I have a huge amount of grudging respect for how Islamic they are. But the rabble are probably a mix of *stuff*.
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I forgot what my point was with that but have a fun fact.

Sounds like you're making my point.

Knightangel, about 20 posts back you had a list of "Christian terrorist groups". By making that list are you not doing the same thing to Christians that you are saying is wrong to do to Muslims?

How so? The point of my argument was that not all terrorists are Muslim, and I used Christian terrorist organizations as my evidence for my argument.

We are saying that terrorists aren't specific to any religious, ethnic, national, racial, sexual, or any other denomination. Terrorists come from everywhere and it's idiotic to say that they are only from one place

I don't get that from knight's post.

Identifying a terror group by the label they apply to themselves does not in itself impugn the entire religion. Timidly refusing to acknowledge that they claim to be Christian, Muslim, Jewish, vegan, or whatever, makes it impossible to fight back.

your initial claim was that all terrorists are Muslim and that's what she's still trying to refute.

Yeah I get that. I do not get that her list of Christian terrorist groups is as bad as listing Muslim terrorist groups, unless I missed your point. I see nothing wrong with calling them what they call themselves; you have to first identify your enemy.

I agree

Oops, my bad. I bet you didnt have the other comment i was thinking of. I lost track of who said what and at this point im not going back to check :)

You mean "at this point I'm too afraid too ask". Lol