They're not coming in tanks. The Maginot line was a military defense right? I don't see the comparison. The wall would serve a different purpose than the maginot line.
Well I'm confused here. The libs say that it's useless to build a wall because the intelligent and Uber resourceful Mexicans will just find another way in, but the same libs say that simply banning legally owned guns will stop enough violence to be worthwhile?
More murders and suicides are committed with everyday objects like hammers, knives, or poisons than firearms. At least as many deaths are caused by automobiles as firearms (stats tend to disagree here, but I'm accepting the high end speculation for the purpose of argument). Nearly as many muggings, rapes, and other violent assaults are committed with knives, baseball bats, or drugs (again I'm accepting the high end of the reported stats here).
It almost looks like guns aren't really the problem; the assholes that are committing the crimes are. Only seems like a good idea to protect yourself.
Well, I have a history on this site as a Texan. I am hearing what you say. And I haven't devolved into anything other than discussion. Which part are you having trouble with again?
Well I don't have any sources on me at this time nor do I have the energy to look anything up. So yeah, I'm basically wrong but I just really hate American values because you're so annoying about patriotism.
Yup, I actually agree. I realized too late that I'm too tired to argue
▼
deleted
· 7 years ago
I may just be biased, but I see nothing wrong with American values or patriotism. I personally adhere to T. Roosevelt's definition (which I believe is the best definition). Some people are certainly idiots about patriotism, but what I'd call the American Stereotype of Patriotism that I see on the internet is done more for laughs and I've never met a person who would even marginally fit the mold.
And while "American Values," is a good phrase for politicians to throw around to promote something, finding more than a handful of such values that aren't extremely vague would be a challenge imo.
Yes I'm aware that the "American values" I hate are often jokes and just dumb people. You have to remember that it's the stupid people you hear about on the Internet. One thing I can say is that guestwho is one of those stupid people.
I'd have to know more to speak on that. I've bumped into them (sorry, don't know if you're a guy or girl guestwho) before, more or less on the same side of issues, however my understanding beyond that is limited.
That probably has to do more with how I interact with funsubstance kinda randomly, never really noticing patterns among users unless it's painfully obvious.
guestwho
i love how you showed statistics that so many deaths are caused by everyday objects and the problem is the people shooting people, but completely ignored or didnt bring up obvious statistics that show having guns would prevent a lot of deaths.
ever notice how there waaay much more (school) shootings in America
and barely none in Canada (a country where you cant just carry around firearms)
and even if there are crimes with day to day objects, but i dont think that justifies keeping a gun.
if we really compared the numbers where guns protected and helped in situations of danger and the number of dangerous situations in which the gun was the danger, you'll find that guns are just not worth the risk.
also when you say since there are messed up people that is why you should have guns, are you insinuation you should just shoot up any messed up person which poses a danger?
Guest, if a crazy person is threatening my life with immediate danger and loss of life or limb, you wouldn't be able to stop me from defending myself. Everyone deserves the right to protect their own life instead of depending on someone else to defend themselves. Whether I choose to do it with a knife or a fire arm is irrelevant. By the way, Britain banned guns, but they've got an awful problem with knives after that. Might it just be that guns are not the problem but just horrible people who intend to do harm anyways?
Guest I didn't provide a statistic for anything. I guess this shows how easy it is to fool some of you with "facts" that are anything but true.
What I presented were summations of research I've read, but my assertions were never meant to be taken as facts in and of themselves. When I was a kid we had the intelligence and common sense to look into things like this and firm our own opinions. Today, with the prevalence of information so readily available on the internet it seems too many are unable to find the truth.
Try Google. You will find evidence both supporting what I said and refuting it, and you can then make an informed decision.
I like how people who haven't read or fully understand the 2nd amendment want it taken away.
deleted
· 7 years ago
What I find more endearing is that "you don't need AR rifles. We'll never have a totalitarian government to overthrow."
"Trump is literally a fascist dictator."
I do actually have lots of facts. Shit I've read up on for years. I spend my time with two highly educational people with PhD's (my parents), I read newspapers etc. It's just that if I recite facts without giving you sources you will shake it off.
▼
deleted
· 7 years ago
I've heard "facts" from my friends and family for years. When I can't find any sources other than them, they're not facts.
Difference is my parents tell actual facts with actual sources. Don't see how your parents lying to you makes mine the same. As I said, highly educated.
▼
deleted
· 7 years ago
Then find those sources that me and my under-educated peers have no trouble finding, capeesh?
Just going through and reading and I couldn't help but think "I have facts. I have the best facts. The people I know they are the best, really fantastic people. They know facts really well. Nobody has better facts than them."
Just to get some things out of the way first: my parents have never knowingly lied to me. There is a reason I used "friends and family," and not "friends and parents." I understand where the confusion came from, so that's all I'll say about that.
You know what? Your parents are almost undoubtedly more educated than mine. You know what else? Their education is irrelevant. I am not having a discussion with your parents.
Since you have not specified anything particular in the above articles, I will be addressing them broadly doing my best in parts that relate to your previous comments.
·
Edited 7 years ago
deleted
· 7 years ago
- Bloated military budget. Fair enough. The F-35 is a particularly egregious example that I take issue with. I take issue with the argument that we don't need such a big military "because ____ country is so much better off with a smaller percentage," because many of those countries benefit from the existence of American Military. The security provided allows them to spend that money else where. Overall though, yes military spending needs to be reigned in.
- The stats for the American "gulag," is out of date. My notes say 1.5 million prisoners with roughly 800k in jails. Since people generally spend maybe a week in jail, saying we have 2.2 million locked up is misleading. Corrections in America is an issue that states around the country are trying to find ways to deal with. As far a private prisons go, some are good some are bad. Depends on what corporation is in charge, but when run poorly it is a problem.
- NSA spying. Yep, so do others. I agree is problematic
Article title false cont
2
deleted
· 7 years ago
and misleading.
- Second article US scores 74 of 100 (17th overall of 174), with Denmark at number 1 with 92. Not fantastic but still within spitting distance of most other European countries if not outright beating them.
- Electoral college. America is the largest (population) Republic in the world. This has pros, this has cons. Here are some pros https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V6s7jB6-GoU
. Founders were extremely cautious about anything that could lead to mob rule. Depending on who you talk to, rightfully so.
- Is Gerrymandering a problem? Yes, to the same extent that voter fraud is. There was actually a case brought before the courts the last time this happened in Texas. Democrats alleged that Republicans had unfairly redrawn the lines to help themselves. The final ruling was that there was some truth to that and Texas was forced to redraw the lines. The courts also determined that it was not to the extent democrats were insisting, so while the lines were redrawn, they cont.
2
deleted
· 7 years ago
weren't drawn to either parties liking.
- Guns. I don't think America has a gun problem, I do think America has a crime problem. While as a nation, this is the safest statistically we've been for almost 50 years for many crimes, your odds change significantly based on what town you just drove into. I honestly don't know if I could type everything I want to say. If you want some other way of conversing, let me know because I could probably be clearer that way.
Some problems that lead to crime include
- poverty
- education
- single parent households
- police distrust (both sides)
yup democratic thinking at its finest "that wall will never work the green line is like only 2 inches i can swim 2 inches no problem. no the wall will not keep out 100% but it will cut down the numbers and that's a start.
"building a wall" means finishing what Congress started in the Secure Fence Act of 2006. It also DOESN'T mean a magical impenetrable forcefield that stretches the entire border; there will necessarily be "gaps", but the idea is to make the border agents' jobs easier by making the criminals' jobs harder. Parts of "the wall" were already built before Obama halted the project. Trump isn't doing anything new or dastardly; he is only enforcing existing laws and finishing what Congress already started.
There is border checks in the U.S. in quite a few places near the border but nothing that can't be avoided. It's usually just a border patrol officer that asks if everyone in the vehicle is a U.S. citizen, then just waves you through after you say yes. They occasionally have drug/bomb dogs but these checkpoints are hardly what most would consider "high security", the border checkpoints are much more strict.
It almost looks like guns aren't really the problem; the assholes that are committing the crimes are. Only seems like a good idea to protect yourself.
And while "American Values," is a good phrase for politicians to throw around to promote something, finding more than a handful of such values that aren't extremely vague would be a challenge imo.
Seriously dude, the blade's on my wrist here.
That probably has to do more with how I interact with funsubstance kinda randomly, never really noticing patterns among users unless it's painfully obvious.
i love how you showed statistics that so many deaths are caused by everyday objects and the problem is the people shooting people, but completely ignored or didnt bring up obvious statistics that show having guns would prevent a lot of deaths.
ever notice how there waaay much more (school) shootings in America
and barely none in Canada (a country where you cant just carry around firearms)
and even if there are crimes with day to day objects, but i dont think that justifies keeping a gun.
if we really compared the numbers where guns protected and helped in situations of danger and the number of dangerous situations in which the gun was the danger, you'll find that guns are just not worth the risk.
also when you say since there are messed up people that is why you should have guns, are you insinuation you should just shoot up any messed up person which poses a danger?
What I presented were summations of research I've read, but my assertions were never meant to be taken as facts in and of themselves. When I was a kid we had the intelligence and common sense to look into things like this and firm our own opinions. Today, with the prevalence of information so readily available on the internet it seems too many are unable to find the truth.
Try Google. You will find evidence both supporting what I said and refuting it, and you can then make an informed decision.
"Trump is literally a fascist dictator."
Just going through and reading and I couldn't help but think "I have facts. I have the best facts. The people I know they are the best, really fantastic people. They know facts really well. Nobody has better facts than them."
http://www.juancole.com/2013/12/corrupt-country-world.html
http://www.cheatsheet.com/politics/just-how-corrupt-is-america.html/?a=viewall
https://www.minnpost.com/eric-black-ink/2012/10/10-reasons-why-electoral-college-problem
http://time.com/4527291/2016-election-gerrymandering/
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2016/jun/21/gun-control-debate-mass-shootings-gun-violence
You know what? Your parents are almost undoubtedly more educated than mine. You know what else? Their education is irrelevant. I am not having a discussion with your parents.
Since you have not specified anything particular in the above articles, I will be addressing them broadly doing my best in parts that relate to your previous comments.
- The stats for the American "gulag," is out of date. My notes say 1.5 million prisoners with roughly 800k in jails. Since people generally spend maybe a week in jail, saying we have 2.2 million locked up is misleading. Corrections in America is an issue that states around the country are trying to find ways to deal with. As far a private prisons go, some are good some are bad. Depends on what corporation is in charge, but when run poorly it is a problem.
- NSA spying. Yep, so do others. I agree is problematic
Article title false cont
- Second article US scores 74 of 100 (17th overall of 174), with Denmark at number 1 with 92. Not fantastic but still within spitting distance of most other European countries if not outright beating them.
- Electoral college. America is the largest (population) Republic in the world. This has pros, this has cons. Here are some pros https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V6s7jB6-GoU
. Founders were extremely cautious about anything that could lead to mob rule. Depending on who you talk to, rightfully so.
- Is Gerrymandering a problem? Yes, to the same extent that voter fraud is. There was actually a case brought before the courts the last time this happened in Texas. Democrats alleged that Republicans had unfairly redrawn the lines to help themselves. The final ruling was that there was some truth to that and Texas was forced to redraw the lines. The courts also determined that it was not to the extent democrats were insisting, so while the lines were redrawn, they cont.
- Guns. I don't think America has a gun problem, I do think America has a crime problem. While as a nation, this is the safest statistically we've been for almost 50 years for many crimes, your odds change significantly based on what town you just drove into. I honestly don't know if I could type everything I want to say. If you want some other way of conversing, let me know because I could probably be clearer that way.
Some problems that lead to crime include
- poverty
- education
- single parent households
- police distrust (both sides)