Deism

@funkmasterrex I thought the same. Back then it wasn't socially acceptable to not believe in a god, in these three specific cases it was unacceptable to believe in anything else than the Christian God. These guys were very likely to just pretend to believe in something so they wouldn't get stoned by an angry mob.
@rachee So by your logic, most believers exclusively pray to their gods when they need something? Sounds like they're bloody opportunists, only being nice to their pappy when they need his money like a bunch of ungrateful teenagers. (Disclaimer: I don't actually think all believers are like this, just showing rachee how dumb his statement sounds.) And I can assure you, wherever there was a hard moment in my life, I trusted in my own abilities more than any god. I didn't pray the night before an exam, hoping The Space Wizard will make the questions easier. I studied for it. When my grandpa was in hospital, I didn't pray, I trusted in the doctors' abilities.

@rachee There are few true atheists because so few people are capable of accepting how small, insignificant and powerless we really are. Not something I really understand, but ok. Anyway, there may be, as you say, few true atheists, but there are some.

No, nonbeliever exclusively pray to gods when they need something, believers pray all the time. As for your examples you didn't pray for your exams well ya that's almost the same as your child on a gurney in a hospital or your self sure. As for your grandfather I don't know the situation did the doctors come in and tell you they didn't think he was going to make it or he only had a 40 present chance to pull through or was it none life threatening and you weren't really worried maybe it wasn't that serious but I stand by what I said, you haven't been through a experience that tested you yet but in all likelihood you will some day that's the way life works if you go out and live it things are going to happen.

I'm an Atheist. I don't pray. Ever.

Are you actually citing statistics or are you just making broad brush assumptions as what other people think?
That, or you really don't understand what atheism and nonbeliever means.

I can tell you without a doubt that when my life was on the line, I didn't waste time praying. What was going through my head was how I could crawl inside and try and piece my scalp back together while figuring out where the closest phone was to call an ambulance. Not once did god or prayer enter the equation. Oh.. and not fucking drown.

Just because someone prays doesn't mean they believe in a god. It's more like in trying times they want him to be real, or are willing to pray in case he might actually be real. It doesn't mean they actually have faith. They could also just be praying to nothing in particular.

Also, i'm taking the atheist in a foxhole every time. When shell-shocked they won't spend an additional few seconds whining to a non-existent deity; the realization and reaction occur faster, which means a better chance of actual survival.

I don't know the situation im betting you didn't believe you were dying or going to die. im not talking oh a deer jumped in from of me and I didn't pray I swerved instead so I lived or oh the wave hit me so I swam to the surface im saying when things are out of your control you believe your going to die that this is it you will pray in some way. Of course your still going to try to get help call a ambulance or what ever im not talking about faith healers and crap like that. And im not talking about it will convert you in to a believer after the situation is over if your still alive you may or will go back to calling your self a Atheist but for those seconds your going to pray maybe not any thing like Jesus or Buddha or some thing it might just be a call to the universe please not now im not ready. As for the fox hole what do you think a Atheist is going to do when shells are falling to help the situation?

I woke up from being unconscious underwater paralyzed besides my arms. Oh you better believe I thought I was fucked.

as for the atheist in a fox hole: fucking shoot back.

Even the chaplains shoot back when they are under fire.

OK when there are shells falling there isn't any thing to shoot at, all you can do is take cover and pray to not die its out of your control. As for your accident I still say bull shit. you didn't believe you were going to die you believed you would live. im not saying that's a bad thing that's a good thing, in a bad situation I want the guy with the strong survival instinct with me. I've almost been killed 5 times the first I was a kid and didn't know about life or death the next 2 were so fast there wasn't time to think about death the fourth don't know if I thought I was dying or just scared I might be. it was a head wound you of all people know how they are. But the fifth time was different I got hit with a tree, when it hit I felt pain in my spine then when I reached up I could feel this 4 inch gap and thought my head was split open. Wile my brother was calling the ambulance I couldn't move at all the world was spinning I expected to go dark and leave at any moment

that's when I said not now im not ready to go. Well head wasn't split it was the scalp split and wasn't paralyzed what I felt was 3 compression fractures in my spine so 15 staples in my head 3 fractures in my spine torn mussels and ligaments oh and a concussion that lasted for 4 weeks, before the accident I wasn't a believer or a atheist now after the accident do you think im a believer? shit no im still the same. Cussing, drinking and watching porn lol I still think we are a bunch of hairless monkeys that are to stupid to know any thing and the thought of any one thinking they know if there is or isn't a god is laughable.hell look at the stuff people new for certain just 50 years ago doctors recommending a certain brand of smokes impossible to break the sound barrier and so on. Any way if people want to believe there atheist go for it but ill never believe it.

I'm not going to knock what you experienced, but waking up from unconsciousness underwarter without being able to really move WAS terrifying and 100% I thought I would die. It took a second and moment of clarity for me to figure out what to do and live... god wasn't there in any of it. That's also not my only near death experience, it's just the one I can describe best.
I think you are confusing a wish with a notion of faith; Pascal's wager-ish... That is a horrible litmus test for atheism and it's even worse for any sort of belief.

@funkmasterrex cool so as a person of faith, we have a lot in common. Your unwavering faith in the belief that there is no God (remember that science can never prove one way or another) even when confronted with death, is something I aspire to. I hope that I too, someday, can have such faith in my beliefs that even upon death, I would not relent them even for the chance that I might be wrong. This is truly something to strive for. Wouldn't you agree?

Science doesn't have to prove that there is no god.. that's where your misstep lies. It's the equivalent as me saying that unicorns exist because I have faith that they exist. Obviously this argument doesn't work... i'd have to give you some sort of evidence that would HINT at the idea of unicorns existing before we'd even use the scientific method to demonstrate their existence.
My beliefs weren't challenged at all though.... I mean, sure that sounds pretty great and yes I can respect it, but at that moment that was pretty much the last thing on my mind. If that is really what is important, sure, when faced with death I hope that faith is what helps you whether you survive or not; as long as your at peace what does it matter?

I agree with that last statement. The only point in trying to get across, my only objective, is as a scientist (read: medical doctor and researcher) is that you understand there is exactly as much evidence that to back the statement "there is no God" as there is to back "there is a God." Believe me, I commend you for choosing to believe one way or another, at least in that you are a person who lives your life based on a system of beliefs that you have decided for yourself and that is brave and that is commendable. But what really gets me is when atheists think themselves more intelligent than the theists. That the theists have just deluded themselves into some nonsense to make their lives more bearable. Beyond the fact that it's condescending, it's also doing exactly the thing atheists accuse theists of: claiming to have the truth. Can you follow me at least that far, or have I gotten something wrong? (Not sarcastic)

Its funny I think all 3 of us are on the same page just looking at it from different points of view that's why its a discussion not a argument. I haven't smoked weed in years but if the 3 of us got together and smoked a joint we would have one hell of a discussion lol

I'd smoke a joint with either of you all anytime lol. A lot of atheists use some really assholish arguments, but there is one that legit stands out above the rest... the god vs unicorn argument. Arguably there is more proof for unicorns (dysfunctional DNA in antelopes or deer, wooly rhinos, etc) than there is for god. You cannot argue from a negative; it just makes zero sense even if you somehow find a point to wrap it around (like fossils on mt everest as proof of a worldwide flood). Stay with me for a second... say that I said there was a sphinx in the andes and only I knew of it... What would I have to do to prove to you this sphynx existed? I'd either have to take video evidence or literally drag you up there and show you... because my claim is fantastical. The notion of God is JUST as fantastical, if not more so.. hence any argument about his existence must come with infallible proof. People have made it their goal to try and provide that evidence for over 6,000 years and they

are still in the exact same position. I'm sorry, but everything I see says it's even more a fairy tale than Santa.... at least St. Nicholas was an actual person.

If you met a unicorn, and took its DNA etc, would you believe in unicorns?

i'd believe in what I had proof of, but I doubt i'd be able to convince other people that it was a unicorn since the idea of a unicorn seems to be established in peoples heads already. I'd have absolutely no issue saying I discovered a new species with DNA evidence.... which i'd then use to determine where to place it on the tree of life.

Sounds like a pretty sound method to me. Some people claim to have met God. What you said was true, if you met a unicorn, no one would believe you.