It can apply to nearly any politician. With that election a lot of people ended up voting for what was "the best of two bad options" in their minds, one of those situations where you'd like to vote for a third party but if you do then it meant the "worse of two bad options" would be the equivalent of one vote higher because you weren't voting against them on someone who could win.
The real questions now are - is Trump going to run for a second term (with the ego he has I don't see him choosing not to run for reelection), and who is going to be the Democratic challenger. If their platform repeats a strong dose of "If you don't vote for me you're a [any number of options]-ist and too stupid to know better" in it's rhetoric they will once again piss off a lot of people who term themselves as moderates who don't vote party lines.
I don't think Hillary would be a great president, but she would undoubtedly been better. She is literally the most qualified person to ever run (some of the founding fathers would be technically more qualified, but technically the country had yet to be founded). I think a ton of people thought that was a bad thing; that it indicated that not only was she was part of the problem, she was an example of the fundamental problem. I really cannot argue with that; I don't like career politicians either. What I have a problem with is the idea that she doesn't know how government works. I mean... you have to be a real dickhead to think she doesn't know; regardless if you LIKE how the US government works. Some may call her a snake, but I consider her a long-lived octopus... I think that's better than an ill-tempered man-child orangutan. I get the rebellion; I do.... Ya'll just could have picked someone better than Trump if you wanted anti-establishment.
Theres upsides and downsides to all presidents i think i mean i like obamas swag but hated his policies hate trumps communication but like his america first policy
I'm politically not aligned to your views here, but upvoted because what makes me more right than you? I respect that you aknowlege the positives and negatives of all sides and didn't come in frothing at the mouth like people are apt to do on such things. I don't think the current administrations policies are the best to care for America while maintaining healthy relationships and creating and inclusive global society, but I do believe that America, like all things, can't help others (at least for very long) unless it cares for itself and it's future as well. That said all politicians are dirty, and none are perfect. We like to forget that the president who came from the corn states used his clout to push corn fuels and polymers despite the environmental and socio economic costs. We overlook the drone strikes and "collateral damage" and so much more. I love Obama. I would be happy to have him back next election if we could- but he wasn't perfect. He was human.
It's sad. A president sits max 8 years and has power, but little real power. The senate and the like are beyond presidential effect. They've sat there before they were president and will possibly still be there when the president dies. They plot and scheme and wait for the right figurehead and the right climate to launch their agendas. The bigotry of the trump administration is the bigotry that's sat life time terms since the Reagan administration or before. It endures patiently and has been there your whole life. As planned though when they spring it we go for the "face man." We rally our dissastifaction on the president and focus our attention on him while ignoring them- just how they want it. Is Trump a great guy? Never met him, but we don't see eye to eye on quite a bit. But he's not enemy number 1. Wait a few years and he'll be gone. The people saying yes and pushing for xenophobia and bigotry? Still there- unless we change the discussion and clean the house.
You broke out a couple buzzwords there. “Xenophobe” is a great insult to hurl at anybody who wants to secure our sovereign borders and opposes sanctuary cities that flout the rule of law all the while trying desperately to legislate away my freedoms. The word “bigot” seems to have similar uses. Both words are used by people who think they have the moral high ground from which to cast obscenities onto anybody who doesn’t loudly proclaim to hate Trump with every fiber of their being.
While I agree with securing our borders and I think that trump does actually have a good point, it’s the way he says things that makes people believe that he’s a xenophobe. Claiming that Mexicans are rapists, wanting to “build the wall” and inputting a ban on specifically Muslim countries makes it seem like he has a particular disdain for immigrants. Again, I do think that we need to make a lot of changes with our immigration policies and I agree with a lot of what he has to say on that, but it’s just the way he approached everything at first.
Poke, it's perfectly fine to dislike an opinion and not have any response. I personally agree with you. But, other people have other opinions. They may not be comfortable sharing, but would like to make it known that they don't agree.
Xenophobe isn't technically an insult- it's a state of fear. If I'm afraid of spiders it's not an insult to be called an arachnophobe. That said To be fair I merely said that certain people were claiming that, I didn't say that was the case. Considering most everyone is prejudiced, I generally don't question wether people are bigots, personally I just let them show me in what way they are a bigot and decide how far from "average" they are in that regard. It's hard to rightly call someone anything as a core of their being. One can speak in their opinion. They can say that a particular action was bigoted or that a person appears to have certain prejudices. We all put "ours" first to some degree and the only question there is who we consider to be in the same group as us. I'm just saying that whatever a personal opinion of trump may be, there are bigger fish to fry.
*just so you know I didn't dv you. I uovoted your last comment back to 0 too. We disagree in some places but there's no reason to dv you for thinking different so long as you're being respectful and not throwing slurs and hate speech or what not. Just because two people don't agree doesn't mean the other person doesn't have some basis for their stance in logic.
Don't assume that everyone who would like to secure our borders (just like every other developed nation in the world) is afraid of immigrants. They're not. They don't like illegal aliens, and the drain on the country's resources that they create.
As for supposed bigoted actions or words, he never called Mexican illegals rapists and murders, he did say that some of them were, which is true, and said that Mexico wasn't sending their best and brightest, which is also true. The countries included in the immigration ban were listed by the Obama administration long before the Trump administration wanted to enact the ban, yet people didn't call Obama a bigot for banning people from those countries, you can see it as part of the Omnibus bill in 2015, 217(a)(12) of the INA, 8 U.S.C. 1187(a)(12). Not everything is as basic as oppositions try to make it look.
Im agree with @tjg. I’m tired of being vilified in the broadcast media and in social media for being a security proponent, opposing public employee unions, being an NRA member and for being a Republican. Certain folks would have me locked up if they could.
Ok... since every goddamn conversation seems to come back to immigrants, specifically illegal: 1) Why are we not going after the companies who hire them? (don't look at Mar-a-Lago since those are seasonal!l)... oh wait. 2) Who deported more illegals than any other president? Oh... ignore that 44. 3) Which party wants to get rid of people who have been living here for basically their whole life, with no criminal record and a predisposition to better themselves and help the rest of us out by becoming citizens and paying into the system? Oh... Wait... wait wait I got it... drug dealers!
Yes we have an immigration problem; from SE Asia and Eastern Europe actually (More people are immigrating to Mexico from the US than immigrate to the US from Mexico... which is a 5 year trend now).
I think Trump's whole immigration platform is ill-thought. Any 12-year old with Wiki could probably do better.
If I may state the argument in a more neutral tone? Its is an error to assume that anyone not supporting deportation or more intense border control don't support safety. The question seems to often devolve into a debate between people who see undocumented immigrants currently in the US as an overall positive or negative on society. But let's ignore that trap. Let's ask another question- of all the threats both physical and economic to this country, are people jumping the Mexican border the biggest one? Last I checked it was the Washington and Wall Street crowd that was embezzling and cheating hundreds of billions of dollars and taking American homes, jobs, and pensions people earned- and largely getting away with it. Last I checked they were the ones publicly committing violent crimes, robbery, and rapes and getting away with it. To boot there are way less fat cats to wrangle, who we don't have to track down, and have more to feed back to the "Everyman" than a shit job and an old car.
As for physical threats- I haven't seen many undocumented immigrants shooting up schools, bombing the Oklahoma federal building, the Boston marathon, or universities and government buildings. The 9/11 hijackers were here legally and not from our south. Is some urban crime caused by "illegals"? Hell yeah. But TOTAL deportations, not just those of convicted criminals are nothing compared to the figures of (especially young and economically disadvantaged male) convicts domestically produced. We have all these problems- big problems, that effect the "average" American deeper and more pervasively than any threat attributed to "illegals." Coincidently they don't effect (and often benefit) the wealthy more. So to my original point- we have all the people who have it hardest fighting each other to the benefit of the people who are getting away living large off our problems. We waste so much time and energy fighting each other and losing focus on huge issues we allow to go on right in the open.
Did you know that state taxes are collected as sales and use fees by the state, and from pay role checks? Meaning that if employers upheld their legal obligations they could automatically deduct state taxes from the employees pay regardless, and that since most low income Americans get tax returns instead of owing, that the state would get to keep more money from those not filing taxes than those actually doing them? As for the state- they can raise taxes if they need to cover the budget better. Of course, it's hard to budget when you don't have accurate counts for census data. Too bad that criminalizing someone's existence tends to make them try and stay off the counts. Perhaps programs aimed at ensuring amnesty so those people felt safe in being in government data, and programs to ensure the following of labor and tax laws could not only solve that problem, but generate money from citizens shorting the system? I'm not sure what you meant by the "long guns" comparison.
As an addendum- of course independent contractors don't have taxes taken from their pay. But as a business even independent contractors are supposed to be screened for work eligibility- and it's all moot if you pay them cash. So the usual argument is: put the burden on the people already here illegally as international criminals- who attained that status specifically because they were so desperate they felt they had no choice in order to live a decent life, as opposed to the companies which are easily fracked and actually have capital to pay penalties and legal costs of recovery for breaking the law. The best thing for the economy is to try harder to get money from people who don't have it while people with money are complicit in the crime and exploit them? It doesn't pencil out on a budget spreadsheet I'm afraid.
I should clarify. I know what a long gun is, I'm not sure what "you're more likely to undeterred by an illegal than a long gun" means. Undeterred from what and in what way? As to your point on property tax- if it's covered through property tax than anyone who doesn't own property would be collecting from a system which they don't contribute and this building a deficit. As for being criminalized- their existence in the United States is criminalized. They are not allowed to exist here without paperwork. If entry was the only crime there isn't a problem once they enter and face a penalty for entry. Some immigrants steal identities but that's not par for the course. Most love under essentially no legal identity.
No worries. Lol. I thought auto correct got you, or maybe a word got left out. But I wasn't sure that maybe I was just being thick and didn't understand. That makes more sense now. In fairness though for all the hoot about guns most of Americans are more likely to be killed by just about anything else, and of the Americans killed by guns most are likely to be their own killer. So just like with many facets of fun debate I refer to my original point again: namely that there's a great big list of larger problems, bigger dangers, and many end up being much simpler or at least no more complex and hotly contested to fix. But whenever it comes to a "trending" cause we all end up fighting over wether we should baby proof the house while a stranger walks past towards the front door carrying the baby. If I drew up a list of problems I encounter every day, and most likely fixes I know undocumented immigrants wouldn't be in either column anywhere in the first 100 things at least.
If I write up a list of 7 people I know who were killed (as opposed to natural causes) Illegals got two of them (one previous deportee ran Eric down on his motorcycle with an SUV while drunk one with a knife over a parking space) two took their own lives with firearms, one hit and run, two overdoses (one likely intentional). Two of the suicides were almost forgivable. Drugs, drunks and violent criminals I can’t forgive.
I absolutely hated Trump with a passion, kinda following the bandwagon, but honestly? He's not a great president but he certainly is not as bad as a lot of people believe
@funkmasterrex makes such a good point that I feel it might be overkill to point out the irony of using a slogan for one of americas most hated modern presidents- who resigned rather than be impeached after discovery of illegal campaign and administrative practices, under scrutiny for his involvement and escalation of a protracted boondoggle meant to further Americas agenda and protect our country.
Lol. No. I was speaking from the perspective of intent or presentation. As it pertains to Nixon, Vietnam was sold as a war of the American way. We were supposed to be defending the liberty of the south Vietnamese and preventing re spread of what were considered dangerous communist ideals. Securing and preventing erosion of American interests in Asia. The reality is more complex- but that was the sales pitch more or less. The current administration can't be said to compare badly to the past several as far as wars go- but the basic idea of a foreign enemy who blends in amongst the "innocent"populace and endangers American security because xyz parallels. For funsies the "war on illegal immigrants" lacks the photo ops for American caskets and the heart moving pictures of devestation that tend to cost public support. A seemingly bloodless "war" where it's hard to show the human cost to those short n attention or sympathy is a much easier sell to most people.
Question- if you have the inclination? I am unfamiliar with what this emoticon conveys. Could you please help educate me (and also better understand the reply)?
my bad this took so long. Honestly idk... I use it for so many things that defining it is really hard and it can be amended in so many ways, i.e.: <.< >_____> >,.,> <_ <
The / is for a high five though.... so... >_>/ high five very naice.
Ah. No worries on the delay. I appreciate the reply. I can see it now. Thank you. I'm not very well versed in emoji/emoticons but am always trying to learn.
I also like it cuz it's really easy to type on a laptop.... It's like... 3 fingers in quick succession that don't have to move.. left pinky on shift, right pointer on the < and left pinky on the _
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Holy shit you are really late for this and also it was the same for Hillary you lil shit
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· 6 years ago
Trump supporters are just sick of hearing the same shit over and over again. That's why Trump's win came as such a shock. Trump supporters were sick of the backlash so they kept quiet.
Well its not even only trump supporters. I dont like him but I feel like the press gives him way too much shit for anything he does. Take a chill pill guys.
The real questions now are - is Trump going to run for a second term (with the ego he has I don't see him choosing not to run for reelection), and who is going to be the Democratic challenger. If their platform repeats a strong dose of "If you don't vote for me you're a [any number of options]-ist and too stupid to know better" in it's rhetoric they will once again piss off a lot of people who term themselves as moderates who don't vote party lines.
As for supposed bigoted actions or words, he never called Mexican illegals rapists and murders, he did say that some of them were, which is true, and said that Mexico wasn't sending their best and brightest, which is also true. The countries included in the immigration ban were listed by the Obama administration long before the Trump administration wanted to enact the ban, yet people didn't call Obama a bigot for banning people from those countries, you can see it as part of the Omnibus bill in 2015, 217(a)(12) of the INA, 8 U.S.C. 1187(a)(12). Not everything is as basic as oppositions try to make it look.
Yes we have an immigration problem; from SE Asia and Eastern Europe actually (More people are immigrating to Mexico from the US than immigrate to the US from Mexico... which is a 5 year trend now).
I think Trump's whole immigration platform is ill-thought. Any 12-year old with Wiki could probably do better.
The / is for a high five though.... so... >_>/ high five very naice.
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