Well, I did put "some" in the title. Considering I still remember George r r Martin writing something along the lines of "her small breasts swayed gently beneath her vest" about Daenerys at one point, and at this point in the story she'd already had her nipples twisted so it's not like we were unaware that she has breasts, or that they can move.
The OP of this was exaggerating to make a point, and it's not entirely inaccurate. Saying it's only shitty writers seems a rather narrow viewpoint to me. A lot of men like breasts. Sometimes it slips through in their writing. Then again, women authors are far from guiltless in their portrayals of men either.
But, again, it's just a joke.
@xvarnah I think that that's a bit unfair to GRRM, seeing as this was just one moment in the entirety of the books, the shortest of which is 800 pages. I think that GRRM, albeit he has some weak moments, is generally quite good at writing female characters.
But think that there are other writers you can demonstrate your point with. For example the Witcher books and short stories that were the inspiration for the games. I tried reading them, I legitimately gave them a chance, and they are interesting books overall, but Sapkowski's portrayal of female characters (which is then very well reflected in the games) is just... idk. Like he's stuck in the 50's but at the same time he's trying so hard not to seem that way. (1/2)
Every female character is either a fuckdoll for the male protagonist or a Mary Sue with extremely overpowered abilities, the only match for which is of course their beauty, because a strong female character must NEVER be ugly in the eyes of many writers (female writers included). It's pretty clear why the books and games are so popular with teenage nerdy boys. A) the amount of sex scenes, some of which honestly feel...forced. Like they were put there just to gain the reader's attention, and of course horny teenagers enjoy that. B) a lot of these nerds don't get laid due to many factors, internal and external alike. They envy the jocks, the so-called "alphas" who do get laid. These books and games provide a perfect outlet for them, in this world they can BE the alpha they so despise irl. Maybe my view is a bit too Freudian but honestly, I read the books (partly) and played the games (also partly, they were meh), and I truly see no other explanation for their immense popularity. (2/2)
I don't really see where this went wrong. I was using George R R Martin as an example of a great writer who had a bad moment, not a bad writer who had a shitty moment, but I guess that message got muddled somehow. I actually think, despite some of the nitpicky bits, he does a pretty good job of portraying women.
There are definitely some dumbass writers who barely seem to have any kind of comprehension what the opposite gender even is beyond, and, often in the case of women, that they actually have features beyond boobs, butts, and vaginas. I've never read the witcher, but given the whole "gotta fuck em all" sex cards in the series, it doesn't really surprise me. This is literally the kind of thing that ruins a lot of animes for me, sadly. I'm not against fanservice mind you, but when you introduce a character to me crotch-first, and spend at least 5 minutes every episode reminding me she is, in fact, still wearing panties, and, in a strange turn of events, DIDN'T leave her tits at
Home today, it just gets annoying. Its on par with women portraying men like Christian Grey where, no no no, don't worry, he's a *good* psychopath! He only stalks and abuses you out of love, and by the way did you see how rich and smart and handsome and amazing at everything he is? Neither is an accurate depiction of any human Ive ever met, seen, or heard about in real life.
And yes, Disney covered the "it's so hard to make female characters look pretty with only one face shape doing literally every emotion." It gets a bit old after awhile. Just like sitcoms for some reason almost always portray husband's as overweight, manipulative, lazy, and more or less unintelligent, and it's like "why? Is this really your opinion of what men are like?" But I imagine we could go on like this for hours
I didn't mean to sound hostile, I apologize if I did, and I'm glad we actually agree even through this slight miscommunication (or rather misunderstanding on my part). Yeah, the collecting nudes thing in the first game was, apart from the fact that the game was virtually unplayable, what really made me part with the series. I'm not against nudity/sex in games/series/movies etc. in itself at all, but I am against it when it's overused to gain attention – as you said, over the top fan service. And yes female writers are also absolutely guilty of this, especially when it comes to the social status and wealth of the characters. We can't really blame men or women but rather the stereotypes/gender roles that are so deeply ingrained in our culture that people still, knowingly or unknowingly, perpetuate them.
Yeah we could go on for hours and I'm not even sure that this problem has a solution, really. I thought that artists would know better than that but how can they when it clearly sells?
I don't think either of us intended to sound hostile, and I'm sorry if I did as well.
But that's pretty much it exactly. Its perfectly fine, as long as it's not taking up more screen time than most of the characters' faces. And it doesn't really matter the gender-- I feel the exact same way when it's males.
I remember reading that supposedly the main reason a lot of males play as female characters is because they find them more enjoyable to look at. Which is both expected when a lot of them have their asses hanging out of their "armor," but also kind of ironic since the male character designs are meant to appeal to men as well, but a lot of guys can't relate to them and dislike the way they look.
^ I don't know how accurate this is, and just to make sure 17 people don't try and kick up a fuss I'll do the obligatory: Even if it IS accurate, it clearly does not apply to every Male and every game.
End PSA.
I don't really see the situation ever going away because there's likely
Deeply ingrained biological reasons we're drawn to these things and that they sell. But at least as we become more aware of the issue, there's possibility for improvement.
A lot of authors are/artists/etc are actually inexperienced or just don't care overly much either I think. They want their character to be the hottest thing since burnt bacon, and they project their own fantasies onto them, as you said
Elliot awoke one autumn morning to a gentle breeze caressing the fair skin of his exposed rear. As the air was somewhat too cool for his liking he extended an arm to shut the window, his muscles flexing with the movement. A second later Elliot flipped over onto his back, this time presenting his nether regions to the fresh September air. Suddenly, with a masculine groan, he stood up from his bed and put on boxers, his morning erection prodding through the soft fabric. Walking through the hallway, however, Elliot’s crotch settled into more of a curved bulge as the memories of tonight’s sensual dreams faded away. He crotchily groined over to the kitchen and assed open the cupboard, looking for his buns.
Yeah, aside from the last sentence that was a nice read. What's your point? Do you think it's a new discovery of yours that men enjoy those descriptions of women's bodies?
The OP of this was exaggerating to make a point, and it's not entirely inaccurate. Saying it's only shitty writers seems a rather narrow viewpoint to me. A lot of men like breasts. Sometimes it slips through in their writing. Then again, women authors are far from guiltless in their portrayals of men either.
But, again, it's just a joke.
But think that there are other writers you can demonstrate your point with. For example the Witcher books and short stories that were the inspiration for the games. I tried reading them, I legitimately gave them a chance, and they are interesting books overall, but Sapkowski's portrayal of female characters (which is then very well reflected in the games) is just... idk. Like he's stuck in the 50's but at the same time he's trying so hard not to seem that way. (1/2)
There are definitely some dumbass writers who barely seem to have any kind of comprehension what the opposite gender even is beyond, and, often in the case of women, that they actually have features beyond boobs, butts, and vaginas. I've never read the witcher, but given the whole "gotta fuck em all" sex cards in the series, it doesn't really surprise me. This is literally the kind of thing that ruins a lot of animes for me, sadly. I'm not against fanservice mind you, but when you introduce a character to me crotch-first, and spend at least 5 minutes every episode reminding me she is, in fact, still wearing panties, and, in a strange turn of events, DIDN'T leave her tits at
And yes, Disney covered the "it's so hard to make female characters look pretty with only one face shape doing literally every emotion." It gets a bit old after awhile. Just like sitcoms for some reason almost always portray husband's as overweight, manipulative, lazy, and more or less unintelligent, and it's like "why? Is this really your opinion of what men are like?" But I imagine we could go on like this for hours
Yeah we could go on for hours and I'm not even sure that this problem has a solution, really. I thought that artists would know better than that but how can they when it clearly sells?
But that's pretty much it exactly. Its perfectly fine, as long as it's not taking up more screen time than most of the characters' faces. And it doesn't really matter the gender-- I feel the exact same way when it's males.
I remember reading that supposedly the main reason a lot of males play as female characters is because they find them more enjoyable to look at. Which is both expected when a lot of them have their asses hanging out of their "armor," but also kind of ironic since the male character designs are meant to appeal to men as well, but a lot of guys can't relate to them and dislike the way they look.
^ I don't know how accurate this is, and just to make sure 17 people don't try and kick up a fuss I'll do the obligatory: Even if it IS accurate, it clearly does not apply to every Male and every game.
End PSA.
I don't really see the situation ever going away because there's likely
A lot of authors are/artists/etc are actually inexperienced or just don't care overly much either I think. They want their character to be the hottest thing since burnt bacon, and they project their own fantasies onto them, as you said