Responsibility goes both ways and I rarely hear anyone actually claiming either the man or the woman has more or less responsibility than their partner. You'll always have nutty extremists claiming one or the other, but it takes two to tango and responsibility goes both ways.
My sister in-law married a man who she thought had 2 kids from his 1 and only previous marriage she had 1 from her marriage. The man lied he had 5 yeah FIVE EX-WIFES And 14 KIDS!!!
She became wife number 6 though he told her technically she was number 7 because when he was 18 he got married in Vegas for a week but it was annulled by his mom so he doesn't count it.
They had 2 more kids so that man had 16 kids.
She said he told her all his ex's we're crazy that is why he left them. I am sorry but 1crazy ex ok she crazy 2 wow you run into bad luck 3 you sure can't pick them 4 ok seriously there is something wrong with you no way in hell someone has that many crazy ex-wifes. 5 yeah you are the one that is cause them to go insane not them.
And she divorced him thank God. Now he calls her crazy (which to be honest she is we actually hate her but I hate him more) and he remarried and had 3 MORE KIDS!!!!
19 FUCKING KIDS!!! AND HE IS ONLY 41!!!! NONE ARE TWINS!!!
OOOOOOOHHH AND GET THIS!!!!
Each kid was born in wedlock so they all should have his last name no matter what.
But NOPE ONLY THE BOYS DO!!!!!
He says only boys should get his last name because girls will change it anyways one day so all his daughters have thier mother's last name.
Yeah if that doesn't say he is the caption of the crazy boat I don't know what does.
They had 2 more kids so that man had 16 kids.
OK. I like you and I love your posts. But right there I was like Dafuq? There were already 3 kids and she had 2 more? How , and maybe I live somewhere that costs too much, but how is 5 even a sustainable decision?
O see he doesn't keep ANY kids no ALL the kids stay with their moms. And she was told before they were married he had 2 kids and she told him she had only 1. But she always wanted 3. So he said let's have 2 and they did.
Well when she was pregnant with the 2nd baby is when one of the mom's was sent to jail for tax fraud. She claim she had 6 kids when really she had 4. Well her 4 went to live with them and than the other wife's caught wind that his new wife loved kids and so they ALL dropped off their kids on the weekends. So she found out EXACTLY how many wife's and kids he had/have.
O this reminds me he never EVER showed up to ANY of the girls births. Only boys. Yeah only the boys which he has 5 of out of 19 now so that like a forth of the births.
And this man is only 1 of 2 yeah 1 of 2.
He pays child support to all them lmfao that is the best part. He has to work 3 jobs and 1 is under the table just so he can live lol.
Damn. At least he is paying child support, I know a guy that has three girls and he never paid a dime or did shit for them. I have zero respect for him. By the way ,the girls are grown up he owes like 13 years on the youngest and roughly 20 years of child support for the other two . He works under the table to avoid having his name in the system.
Ywah, I offered the guy a job , a union job that paid very well and had great benefits. He wouldn't take it because he would to pay his child support. Pathetic ,
They say it costs $233,000 to raise a child to 18. Even if you trust your partner alone with $233k of your money- would you leave it just laying on the table to chance, or would you have some kind of protection or insurance? I would trust my partner with $233k of my money. I’d trust my partners driving too. But if we get a rental car you can bet your ass I’m paying to add them to the insurance- and that’s only $30-40k max. I know they’re a good driver, I know they’re insurance should cover them, but I’m still facing a risk, and if you know there’s a risk and you have a low cost way to minimize it and don’t take it- that’s how many bad things happen. Do yourself a favor, man, woman, whatever: if you are even theoretically capable of having a child- use whatever method from abstinence to birth control or prophylactics that works for you to cover your bets. It’s like cheap insurance against a life sentence and $233k+ fine. Men and women can both lie or mess up on birth control. Do you.
I’ll answer in two posts so each is shorter. Your first mistake is in how you interpret the data. You assume that a total spent over 18 years can be divided into per year spending. However- to deliver a child averages $2,500-4500 with insurance in delivery costs alone, and without insurance tends to be around $9,000-16,000. If you use disposable diapers, average cost is $750 a year- or $1500 for “average” potty training. A large sum is spent in early and late years- for instance as a child reaches their teens things like phones, computers, trips, graphing calculators and more expensive school supplies come in. Perhaps a car, or just adding them to insurance. Drivers ed, prom- dates- dances, toys, trends, clubs/activities and so forth- not even mentioning college or prep.
To answer the second part- the department of agriculture pulled those statistics out of their ass. Every year. The last surveying being a ~2-3% increase over previous. The example of $233k was given and is their figure for “middle class” families of a combined income of $50-mid 100k a year. Lower income families average around $174k, and higher income families average much more. I split the difference and went middle class. It doesn’t include government or other amounts provided by non parents. Using the average household size of 2.5 people, it’s estimated that each “house” spends around 6k a year on groceries, or around $2k per person. You can obviously spend much less (rice and beans, ramen, etc.) and you can tank your credit and not pay hostpital bills, or as a parent not pay for college or find cheaper options. You don’t have to buy toys or new clothes, you can use hand me downs, visit food banks, make lots of your own stuff, steal, do without many “non essentials.”
They include things like the extra cost of living space for additional children, medical care, and so on. These are just lump sum averages. I can say few parents enjoy telling their kids no, or serving the cheapest and possibly less healthy meals, or having kids feel picked on or left out for not being able to participate. People make due with what they have, and some of the best parents are the ones who can’t give a child everything other kids may have, some of the best people grew up without many things. You don’t have to spend this much, as I said- these are just figures based off of available data to serve as a guideline in setting things like government programs, child support, baselines for study, and what one can expect as a parent. Make no mistak e though- raising kids tends to be expensive since no matter how little or much you make, you’ll likely want to do the best for your kids that you can. That means $10k or 300k a year- a lot of thay will probably go to your kids.
Did it hurt pulling all of the stats out of your ass ,Guest, haha, I thank you for some of the best parents were poor. I grew up poor in a large family, and maybe not as a kid, but now I am thankful that my mom was not employed and at home. I think I am a better person that I grew up that way. As always, love your comments Guest.
Thanks @popsy. That means a lot from you. From what I can tell your parent(s) did a great job. I got to spend a lot of time with my mom growing up too, and despite the negative sides to having that opportunity, I agree that I am glad I was able to as well.
Thanks Guest, your parents also did a good job. They raised,a polite , intelligent, man. Obviously, educated , and excellent at delivering the point in a debate. Rock on
Men do get told to keep it their pants. No one is denying this. But women get slut-shamed a hell of a lot more frequently, and badly. (Looking at every religion, ever.)
Saying every religion ever is very false. In the time the story of Gilgamesh takes place priestesses had sex with lots of people. Pagan druids before Christianity in many places in Europe encouraged multiple partners and quite a bit of both Greek and roman cultural areas had multiple partners in a very bisexual form
I must applaud @bethorien and also state that quite often the repression of women doesn’t originate in a religion- it is often added/interpreted in, or used to validate the repression of women, but even those religions associated with such repression don’t require it. The overarching point you had @guest, was a good one. That women are largely more shamed and repressed for sexuality in the modern world. Had you stuck to that you would have been standing on firm ground, but just as many use religion to justify sexism, you used sexism as an indictment of religion- in so doing you destroyed your own argument.
It's the reason why women are the ones who birth control is developed for (the hormonal and implantable options, not just prophylactics and surgical options that are available for both men and women) is that the state of being pregnant is more dangerous than the risks and side effects of those birth control options.
While the prevention of STDs and/or preventing pregnancy in a sexual partner is the goal of the options for men they aren't going to develop something with risks of blood clots, heart attacks, stroke, liver tumors, depression, blood pressure irregularities, headaches, and oral health risks for those not physically able to get pregnant themselves and therefore not having the life threatening risk of pregnancy complications.
I mean come on. If we applied this logic to anything else how screwed up would that be? Car nods for you to cross an unprotected but legal crossing and then hits you anyway? Your fault. You should have been safe. They owe you $150 a month for 18 years and that’s that. You tell a server you’re allergic to peanuts and they sprinkle your food with peanuts? Why didn’t you take a steroid before eating to be safe dummy? Or bring an epi pen? You should carry the greater burden than them. Making women solely or chiefly responsible for birth control simply because they carry a greater risk of some guy doesn’t pull out, or if they do conceive, is silly. It takes two partners to have sex and the only way you get pregnant is if BOTH are equally fertile. Yes- women should be aware they are are greater risk in sexual encounters and protect themselves-l as they deem appropriate- but we shouldn’t normalize that, we should try to minimize or equalize the risks of unplanned pregnancy to both partners.
Well thank you.
It's one of those things people fall into three camps on - some people know, some people have a vague idea of it in the back of their minds but they don't actually think about the reasoning, and some people don't know/have no need to consider.
Just like a single (not double - double can be effective; I am not a doctor this is not medical advice; also insertion of a copper IUD within a couple days of unprotected sex will also drop your pregnancy chances dramatically and BMI makes no difference for *copper* IUDs; they make periods suck even worse but last 10 years without hormones and if you actually want to get pregnant just have it removed and you're ready!) Plan B emergency contraceptive is less effective up to ineffective as a woman's BMI increases (percentage of the medication dose found in bloodstream). They throw out weight limits but really it's BMI.
I'll stop talking about birth control now.
Thanks again.
I mean, in my daily life i'm not gonna wear a ballistic vest but if I have a hit out on me I'll start to wear one. Someone I trust might kill me without one but I trust them. Same thing applies to bc to me. (But then again I'm intoxicated right now so I might not have made much sense.)
"was given and is their figure for “middle class” families of a combined income of $50-mid 100k a year. Lower income families average around $174k, "
So there were two thumbs up to Guest's statement that said this. Do you two even do math?
Is there a problem mathematically? Also keeping in mind the end of the truncated quote as: “It doesn’t include government or other amounts provided by non parents.“?
It says that middle class families have a combined income of $50-mid 100K a year. How exactly does anything truncated or not explain that lower income families average 174K?
Hmmm.... I think this might be a simple misunderstanding based on what you are saying. To clarify- the statement is intended to mean that families above the poverty line and considered “lower class” and not “impoverished” or otherwise, who make below $50k a year, tend to average out to spending $174k total to raise a child to the age of 18, versus the $233k to raise a child to 18 but maki a house hold income of $50k- mid 100k. Also remember this is household income and not individual income. IE: the $50-100k or 50 and under is the combined total of all working members of the home- not a per person salary. But- in case it isn’t a misunderstanding; I have prepared this math to illustrate.
0-18= 18 years.
To pick a number let’s choose $30k annual salary.
30,000x18=540,000.
540,000-174,000= 360,000.
360,000/18= 20,333.333.....
Or in English: a family with one child, where one parent works and earns $30k a year, or both parents work and make a combined total of $30k a year, will have an effective income of about $20k (amortized over 18 years) a year after additional average expenses in child care are deducted from their home income. As stated previously, this does not include converted values of aid received through government programs, other charities or organizations, donations, or extended family contributions of material or liquid wealth or convertible services. In plain English: that’s the average cost if you aren’t getting help from family and friends or welfare and paying everything yourself.
A point that i feel needs to be made is there are attempts at male birth control, but, at least in the states, there are "feminist" groups opposing the development of them and getting in the way claiming reproduction should only be under womens control. I myself am excited for the medical valve being developed to literally shut off semen production and turn it back on later when you want to reproduce.
I agree. When I first heard of advancements in non surgical or prophylactic male birth control I was very excited. All these years later and it still isn’t a common reality in the US.
2Reply
deleted
· 6 years ago
Yet having taken a populations class, reproduction rates are based off of the female population, not male. A male elk might have a harem of 15 cows. How many calves will be born come springtime? Probably 15. That's the way populations work.
I'm not talking about who should do what when it comes to birth control. I'm just pointing out his false logic.
Birth control is about the same level of difficulty on its simplest scale for either gender. Then there isn't really a middle option for men where the pill is. Then it's about the same when you hit surgery level
She became wife number 6 though he told her technically she was number 7 because when he was 18 he got married in Vegas for a week but it was annulled by his mom so he doesn't count it.
They had 2 more kids so that man had 16 kids.
She said he told her all his ex's we're crazy that is why he left them. I am sorry but 1crazy ex ok she crazy 2 wow you run into bad luck 3 you sure can't pick them 4 ok seriously there is something wrong with you no way in hell someone has that many crazy ex-wifes. 5 yeah you are the one that is cause them to go insane not them.
And she divorced him thank God. Now he calls her crazy (which to be honest she is we actually hate her but I hate him more) and he remarried and had 3 MORE KIDS!!!!
19 FUCKING KIDS!!! AND HE IS ONLY 41!!!! NONE ARE TWINS!!!
OOOOOOOHHH AND GET THIS!!!!
But NOPE ONLY THE BOYS DO!!!!!
He says only boys should get his last name because girls will change it anyways one day so all his daughters have thier mother's last name.
Yeah if that doesn't say he is the caption of the crazy boat I don't know what does.
OK. I like you and I love your posts. But right there I was like Dafuq? There were already 3 kids and she had 2 more? How , and maybe I live somewhere that costs too much, but how is 5 even a sustainable decision?
Well when she was pregnant with the 2nd baby is when one of the mom's was sent to jail for tax fraud. She claim she had 6 kids when really she had 4. Well her 4 went to live with them and than the other wife's caught wind that his new wife loved kids and so they ALL dropped off their kids on the weekends. So she found out EXACTLY how many wife's and kids he had/have.
O this reminds me he never EVER showed up to ANY of the girls births. Only boys. Yeah only the boys which he has 5 of out of 19 now so that like a forth of the births.
And this man is only 1 of 2 yeah 1 of 2.
He pays child support to all them lmfao that is the best part. He has to work 3 jobs and 1 is under the table just so he can live lol.
While the prevention of STDs and/or preventing pregnancy in a sexual partner is the goal of the options for men they aren't going to develop something with risks of blood clots, heart attacks, stroke, liver tumors, depression, blood pressure irregularities, headaches, and oral health risks for those not physically able to get pregnant themselves and therefore not having the life threatening risk of pregnancy complications.
It's one of those things people fall into three camps on - some people know, some people have a vague idea of it in the back of their minds but they don't actually think about the reasoning, and some people don't know/have no need to consider.
Just like a single (not double - double can be effective; I am not a doctor this is not medical advice; also insertion of a copper IUD within a couple days of unprotected sex will also drop your pregnancy chances dramatically and BMI makes no difference for *copper* IUDs; they make periods suck even worse but last 10 years without hormones and if you actually want to get pregnant just have it removed and you're ready!) Plan B emergency contraceptive is less effective up to ineffective as a woman's BMI increases (percentage of the medication dose found in bloodstream). They throw out weight limits but really it's BMI.
I'll stop talking about birth control now.
Thanks again.
So there were two thumbs up to Guest's statement that said this. Do you two even do math?
To pick a number let’s choose $30k annual salary.
30,000x18=540,000.
540,000-174,000= 360,000.
360,000/18= 20,333.333.....
Or in English: a family with one child, where one parent works and earns $30k a year, or both parents work and make a combined total of $30k a year, will have an effective income of about $20k (amortized over 18 years) a year after additional average expenses in child care are deducted from their home income. As stated previously, this does not include converted values of aid received through government programs, other charities or organizations, donations, or extended family contributions of material or liquid wealth or convertible services. In plain English: that’s the average cost if you aren’t getting help from family and friends or welfare and paying everything yourself.
I'm not talking about who should do what when it comes to birth control. I'm just pointing out his false logic.