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deleted
· 6 years ago
· FIRST
Barbara Broccoli sounds like a really fake name.
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Edited 6 years ago
guest
· 6 years ago
Alberts daughter
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freudiandip
· 6 years ago
Just make interesting female characters like Ripley, or Wonder Woman, or Lara Croft! Make someone you'd like to be friends with, or someone you'd absolutely hate. Make a person that you enjoy reading about/watching!
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guest_
· 6 years ago
Ripley was written as a man and then cast as a woman. Wonder Woman traditionally has the moral complexity of a goldfish and is essentially a rehash of old legends displaced in time- with her hook being the novelty, and the hook of the original legend being the novelty of a “female warrior tribe” at the time it was made. Lara Croft as well as WW and arguably Ripley were not invented as interesting female characters. They were evolved into interesting female characters and only largely so as society evolved as well. What I’m saying is not that I disagree that one shouldn’t make natural female characters, or that the characters named didn’t become or couldn’t be viewed as good examples of strong, interesting characters- I’m just saying that in the examples given are precedent for not only male characters who were turned female and well received for it, but a character with the complexity of Superman (staunch moral compass, near invincibility, etc.) and a character made popular by boobs.
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coldpasta
· 6 years ago
Yeah.. Who watched SALT?? Probably not even the SJWs who want a female Bond
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guest
· 6 years ago
Atomic blonde is a good spy thriller with a female protagonist, though it’s much closer to John Wick than James Bond
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guest_
· 6 years ago
Bad movies are bad movies. The Rock has had some really good roles, and he’s done some really crap stuff. Crystal Skull would have been bad without the Indiana Jones name, without the characters, without the cast and crew and legendary directors. Lucas made cultural pillars with films like American Graffiti and The original trilogy. But he also made episodes 1-3 and other flops. Bad movies aren’t gender issues. They’re bad movies. You could make an amazing female spy movie, or a terrible one. You can make the Nolan verse or the Keaton bat verse, bat man TAS, or you can make BVS.... each has its own take on the world and characters and style but uses the same material, and each is very different in delivery and reception. The gender isn’t important compared to the writing, acting, directing, and studio support.
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heywood
· 6 years ago
The new Doctor is female and I love her. She’s a bit silly like Mat was but very confident like Tenant was. It’s going to be a fun season.
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bethorien
· 6 years ago
That fits the story tho. Regenerations not having a real sex restrictions and all
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heywood
· 6 years ago
A lot of people were upset about it. I admit I had my doubts.
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bethorien
· 6 years ago
I predicted this 6 years ago.
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stream_42
· 6 years ago
https://youtu.be/tp_Fw5oDMao
sublimegamer
· 6 years ago
How about Lara Croft from Tomb Raider as a man. Larry Croft. Not the best idea, gender bending.
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guest_
· 6 years ago
Laura Croft as a man has already been done. Indiana Jones, Romancing the Stone, the serials Indy was inspired by, the librarian... You could also argue other properties. I mean, in many ways she’s Batman without the theme and pulled from one city into the wide world. Plop her sprite into Turok or Far Cry and anyone who hadn’t played before wouldn’t know it wasn’t a regular ranchise title. Does Fem Shep vs he shep change the story of Mass Effect so much? Samus as a male space bounty hunter... would it be so different? If Jason was a giant woman in a hockey mask, if Tom Cruise and Emily blunt switched roles in Edge of Tomorrow? There are nuances of social gender roles one can use in writing to shape emotional responses, but largely gender isn’t so important to the story usually- but inclusion is important to many people.
ewqua
· 6 years ago
Yesss Mass Effect and Dragon Age are in my opinion one of the best series of games in terms of gender equality because apart from some romance options, gender doesn't change jack shit. The writing of the games is superb and whether you chose a female or male Shepard doesn't matter at all, you're just a really badass human saving the galaxy from the Reapers. That's what's important -- good writing, a good story and lore. Not whether the protagonist has this or that between their legs. But in my experience a lot of writers (male AND female) have trouble with writing female characters because they either take into account gender roles and make her a damsel in distress bimbo or try to work against gender roles and make her a Mary Sue. That's why it's pretty rare to find a realistic female character as opposed to male characters in my opinion. It's just my personal experience though, maybe yours is totally different.
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Edited 6 years ago
guest_
· 6 years ago
I would agree, a lot of writers seem to have trouble finding a voice for female characters. They seem to have trouble writing them “honestly” in a way where they are comeplete people, or in a way which their personalities and traits are aligned to other characters in the story. But that’s writing skill and not inherent to the gender as much as it is to the issues and perceptions surrounding it. In essence- if you can remove the pronouns or swap the pronouns and still have a good story, then it shouldn’t really effect wether the story is good or not. Obviously, certain nuances change with pronouns, and stories that rely on certain gender themes, dynamics, or issues this doesn’t apply. The “hook” of To Wong Fu is lost if we have women dressing up as women. Ms. Congeniality may still be good, but becomes more complex a story if we replace the female lead with a male lead trying to go undercover in a female beauty pagent- so hopefully no one takes my words as to say there is no difference.
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unicycle
· 6 years ago
Why can't we have both? More original female characters and known characters re-imagined as female. Remakes and reboots are the current style so why not make it interesting?
ewqua
· 6 years ago
I mean on principle I agree but with Bond it's actually not that pie in the sky since it's a codename and the actors were changed many times. Making Bond a minority or a woman isn't that unrealistic and I don't get why it couldn't be done. Like, yeah if you're picking an actor/actress only because you want to appeal to SJWs and not because of his/her skills, that's bad. But if there's a good actress who'd make a good Bond (Jane Bond, I guess the name would be?) then why not? It's the same with the Doctor, it's been established in the lore that it's possible to regenerate as female so why keep the sausage fest going? Wouldn't that make a streak of all male Doctors just statistically unprobable?
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bethorien
· 6 years ago
James Bond is the characters real name. The change in actors isn't part of the canon storyline. They are all the same guy. The code name is 007. Changing the gender of the character for the sake of changing it is just stupid which is what that would be.
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ewqua
· 6 years ago
Yeah idk why people are downvoting me, I said I am against changing characters for the sake of being inclusive only. But it's just weird that Bond has been portrayed by so many different actors (and in not too long a span either, I get why they'd change them for being too old but when Brosnan was replaced by Craig he wasn't that old) and we still pretend it's one guy.
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bethorien
· 6 years ago
The same way we believe a big sphere in the sky can shoot a laser and blow up a planet. The story said so. The same way we believe the 4 different people who acted parts of anakin/Vader are the same character. The story said so. Neither if more far fetched than the other. Changing characters for the sake of "inclusion" inherently makes for bad storytelling.
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Edited 6 years ago
guest_
· 6 years ago
@ewqua- I upvoted. I don’t agree with the down votes but understand some people are narrow minded and lack the courage or vocabulary to defend their point of view in words. I once received quite a dv melee here on another thread for basically saying the same thing about James Bond- that given how many actors played bond, that the only real similarities between each version were “British” and “male” there’s no real reason Bond couldn’t be British and female. There isn’t a real reason to change Bond to a woman, so yeah- only if it made sense to do so would I say go for it, but there’s no reason Bond couldn’t be female.
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guest_
· 6 years ago
@bethorien- I wouldn’t advocating making any change to a character or franchise just for changes sake. I will say only this of inclusion- It is not bad story telling to change character attributes between installments, especially in stories that don’t have continuity like most of the Bond Franchise. It might be bad story telling to change gender mid film, or mid Trillogy (unless that’s a plot point...) but keep in mind many of these franchises date from when female leads in that type of film we’re rare or unheard of. Bond is based in true stories from when women didn’t even have the rights to have exploits like that in real life. So using an existing franchise to jump start female leads and characters makes sense. Beyond that though- there is often a reason asides inclusion or just for change to switch genders- we have seen many of these characters time and time again. Even this latest bond was a radical departure of Bonds past. There’s a reason for things like gritty reboots and why..
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guest_
· 6 years ago
The latest Bond or Nolan Batman were more brooding and nihilistic than their past peers. To keep showing the same franchise and genre over and over the perspective needs to change or it stagnates. So in the vein a very real reason to change genders of remade popular franchises is to view a good story people love from another perspective. Sometimes the reboot takes a character and says “what if they were a high school student...” or “what if they were updated for modern archetypes...” so if we say “what would this movie look like from a female perspective...?” There’s nothing wrong with that. I’d be interested to know what a female secret agent- a female bond’s life would be like. Would M sexually coddle her? Would other agents treat her how Bond treated Money Penny? What techniques would she use and how might a woman solve the same problems male Bond faced that might be different? Would she face different problems, have certain advantages? Not just plopping a female character into...
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guest_
· 6 years ago
A role written for a male one, but changing the writing and tone and overall story so that a female character organically fits. When they announce a new reboot we often worry it will destroy the original. An old story we love and don’t really see how they would improve on it, what they could change without wrecking it, why it needs to be remade or what is left to say after the original did such a good job. And there’s one or several possible answers. Change the perspective and tell the story from a different view, a female, another race or ethnicity, another age or nationality, change the angle we look at the same story and you have the same story but also brand new. The key being to donot well and to write it from an informed perspective that can show what that view would be like and not just some “gender bend” from someone guessing at what the world looks like to someone else.
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rebel
· 6 years ago
I wish the writers of Doctor Who understood this.
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bethorien
· 6 years ago
doctor who is a completely different fish to fry. The doctor's regenerations have never had rules for sex/race/etc. It's completely in keeping with previous canon that the doctor could regenerate female. Every doctor changes personality, physical state, etc completely. Making the doctor a woman is no bigger a difference than between capaldi and tennant.
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