I did have a wealthy grandmother. Last time I went to vsit her after 2 years without seing each other, she opened the door and said "Sonia, go take the mail" while shoving her keychain in my face. My name's Claudia, Sonia's her housekeeper. Her brain was good for her age, this just explains how you can be white and not get anything from a grandma you're hesitating about visiting.
It's not even about hesitating to visit, sometimes those old hags just have people they prefer over others, just like my gran and pops did. And guess what, I wasn't one of the preferred ones. Even though I was the one taking care of them almost every day, while the ones they liked visited once a year. They got the smiles, hugs, love and money. I got squat.
I only have one memory of one of my grandmothers and I don't think I knew either of my grandfathers at all. Not that it even matters, but none of them were wealthy. Sorry the OP of that comment resents their own grandparents and their financial states so much they feel the need to lash out at other people
People get confused. Ever hear the term “trailer trash?” Poor white kids may grow up with less money and opportunity than middle class POC kids. Everyone has their own struggle- and confusing or conflating class and race doesn’t help. Race can be a big factor. You can change your circumstances in life- a poor white kid can become well off, but a back person will always be black and that means that the opportunities the have and way society interacts with them can always be influenced by their race as opposed to a class issue which one can be unburdened of or “fake” being something else. So no. Not all white people are rich and many have similar struggles like caring for family, and not all black people are poor, and not all take care of their families. These are stereotypes. That said there are a unique set of social exonomic challenges that even poor white folks are less likely to face. If instead of poor folks fighting poor folks- poor folks decided to stick together and help each...
... other up, to get to positions where now it’s the former poor folk making decisions and giving out opportunities, we could all elevate each other. Leave race lines for the wealthy if you want to fight a socioeconomic battle. Classics wealth division in American citizens leans towards the white because historically they have had more time and been able to accumulate and build multigenerational wealth. Those rich white people dont want any poor folks at their table- but if they had to choose between two poor folks to let in- they’d likely be more welcoming or less hostile to one race over another. So there is a racial component. But- by and large they are just as happy to abuse the labor and hold back anyone regardless. In “us vs them” it’s all about who people identify as “like them” and how they do it. Race is one way- but not the only way. Politics, religion, where you grew up, music, fashion- there are many ways that people choose the people they like but in general, by default...
... people often favor whoever they see as most like them on weighted factors of what their priorities are. So race is only one way to be excluded from “the club,” and Jeff Bezos doesn’t care if you’re white or black working in an amazon warehouse. He’ll probably never meet you to find out or even see your name- but he will work you like a dog and underpay you while making billions just the same. The manager that makes racial highering decisions or promotions IS judging on race and does have an impact on your success- but that manager isn’t a billionaire or a millionaire. They likely don’t make all that much more than their workers do. So when we talk about rich racist white folk- it’s important to remember that the people who build the system and have the money are making choices that are racially biased- but Jeff Bazos isn’t reviewing warehouse hires. He’s reviewing executive employees who regardless of race are in that same club writing $50k checks for the grandkids....
... the people who are struggling the most- the ones at the bottom? They’re all in the same boat. You don’t generally go from then warehouse to the boardroom without steps in between. Those steps are often stopped by systemic racism- that’s a key distinction. Because the white guy to the right and the black guy to the left in the warehouse both need more money. Both are getting fucked so someone else gets a big check. That isn’t your enemy. That’s your ally in the same struggle. That’s how we heal the wounds of the past- by starting a new fight together against a common enemy. By sharing the struggles we all face and defining our “tribe” as those who the system is fucking with us. That’s how we get unfucked. By fighting together and remembering who had our backs- and lifting them up because they were part of the solution and not part of the problem. Regardless of race.
I'm not sorry for your poverty.
My parents work hard to have the money to spoil me (although I'm not spoiled) and their patents did too.
There are rich and poor people everywhere.
And guess what? Doesn't matter how miserable your life is and how wealthy I get, I will always look down on whom victimize themselves.
While the first person is framing it badly, the racial wealth gap is a thing in the US. Check out some articles on big American cities' history, for example LA still has huge problems because of past segregation. Basically the problem is that the segregation used to be racial and non-white areas were neglected, underserved, with no opportunities for growth. Institutionalized racism has since been mostly eradicated in itself, but these areas still remain poor, underserved, and with very little social mobility. So while this is more of a class problem than a racial one, race does play a role for historical reasons. Seriously, Google that stuff, I'm not very good at explaining (and it's also midnight where I live and I just had an exam today so I'm exhausted) so you'll probably get more clarity our of articles. I think I first stumbled upon this topic when I researched the history of LA and its Hispanic minority, maybe you'll even find the same articles I did back then.
I have to mostly agree with you. Her primary issue is an economic one- which happens to be tied to racism in many ways, but is not by default. It’s hard to explain because as you say- it’s complicated and involves history, psychology, so many factors and much is such minutia that people can’t see how it makes a difference if they’ve never experienced it. Even seeing first hand is not the same- and all people of course process things differently still. But the one minor place I slightly disagree is the subject of institutionalized racism. I think things are better than likely ever- but I think we are maybe even centuries away from eradicating it. That said, I concede that it’s a fine line and a trap like our OP falls into. For so long one could almost substitute one for the other- with various periods in US history seeing certain groups as almost exclusively within an easily segregated class structure. It’s still possible, and the class divide created by historic events does allow...
... some ability to use class discrimination as a shield to obscure racial discrimination. In that way- it an often be hard to pick the two apart, since “elite racists” tend to look down on both the “lower class” and the race(s) of their choice, one can’t truly know if and what was the target of an instance of discrimination- of it is aimed at a class, or a race, and either the other happens to largely get caught up in it, or its a “bonus” that it effects both. So it’s hard to say in my mind wether many cases are one or the other in nature, but despite great strides, moral, structural, and even human elements of institutionalized racism linger and their legacy guides future actions and while diluted- often carries on.
You're right about the institutionalized thing. I'm not a native speaker so I thought institutionalized meant "by law" and then I googled it and realized it actually means "by practice or custom". So I learned something! Yay!
So are you saying that the city of Denver that was given to black population in that area wasn't our way of investing in them and giving them an equal chance? Simply google 'Detroit before and after black people' and you'll see why they don't deserve to have money invested in them. If they wanted to work, they would and not stay on welfare. Any immigrant that comes to USA from any of the European countries works their ass off even though a lot of them barely speak English. They contribute to our economy, they are worthy. Most of black people don't work, but if they'd ever applied to my business I'd be happy to hire them. Welfare should only be given to those in need like veterans and people with disabilities, not perfectly healthy people who are lazy and would rather be in gangs.
"most black people don't work"
[citation needed]
I'll stop making jokes and try to properly reason with you when you stop pulling stuff out of your ass.
@ewqua- you’re making my day. Also- no worries. I would never have guessed you are a non native speaker. That particular term is often misunderstood by native speakers too- so no worries.
@guest- I won’t call the comment ignorant- as it may just be a provincial view point. Perhaps in your experience the individuals you have interacted with have not wanted to work. Personally I know and work with many hard working black folks- including a VP of IT and ex Air Force NCO I work with. Now- there is so much history I’d need tens or hundreds of panels to cover it. But drugs and poverty, lack of opportunity and lack of education have plagued many minority groups in America. It wasn’t until the 1960’s that a black child really had any hope of possibly Recieving the same education as a white child. Making many current school kids only the second or third generation of their family to have that chance. The CIA and other government organizations piped drugs into urban America in the 70’s and 80’s targeted at destabilizing and repressing minoroties. It worked- while also unintentionally causing the bush era “drug epidemic” when those drugs found their way into white suburbia.
The fact that we are still discussing wether or not you would gladly hire a black person in 2019 tells us that there are still issues with black people being discriminated- otherwise it wouldn’t need said. You likely would never say: “show me a white guy who wants a job and I’ll hire him anyway...” so- we know historically that black Americans and many minority groups have had issues not only finding employment- but finding meaningful and upwardly mobile careers. When we couple generational poverty, lack of education, lack of opportunity, and what equates to economic segregation- race becomes a non factor. Do you think that if we enslaved whites and then treated them as sub humans for about 200 years- then gave them somewhat equal rights over 4-5 decades, that we wouldn’t see similar trends in the white population? You are doing the same thing we discussed above. You’re taking a class issue and making it about race.
We CAN in some cases corelate race with certain things like crime or poverty- but you are assuming the factor which is similar and thus the cause in these cases is race, without considering other factors that are similar. You’re comparing middle and high class whites to blacks below the poverty line, you can get the same results by comparing whites of different classes in similar numbers. Take a city the size of Detroit in its prime, introduce similar numbers of white meth heads, outlaw bikers, and “white trash,” and then yank the entire economy out from under the city and make most of them unemployed. What do you think would happen? They’d all “knuckle up” and work as one to solve the economic crisis? I think not.
You are looking at this backwards. You are seeing that a small percentage of the population make up large percentages of certain categories for undesirable behaviors and assuming the cause is race- as opposed to asking why such large percentages of a group seem to disproportionately fit these roles. You know the answer but do t want to admit it. Centuries of society and government actively working to deny them careers, homes, rights, education, or even a place in “proper society” have led to many people having circumstances that one with the education and tools, the values and outlook on problems and life, could get out of possibly- but people who have come up being told “this is your place- stay where you belong” may tend towards acting the part you’ve cast them to play.
So we know lots of intelligent, talented, moral, upright and successful black Americans exist. We know not all black people fit the negative stereotype you describe or others. We know scientifically there is nothing about race or genetics to explain or implicate them as sole causes or even worth consideration in why you observe what you observe. So- what is left? Environmental factors. Many of which were probably made hostile towards black Americans. So yes yes. We live in a much better society to be black than even 10 or 20 years ago, but there are still unique challenges as well as lingering artifacts since of you stop and think about it- all this “equality and freedom” are pretty recent and you can’t expect an entire group of people to overcome 200 years of repression overnight.
But @guest- you may or may not listen or consider anything I’ve said- but consider this. If you have any reasonable grasp of science or logical problem solving you will understand this, if not- put your trust in me as science and problem solving are what I do for a living: yoir conclusion is fundamentally flawed. You are confusing correlations and causation which is a common and basic mistake. You’ve grabbed on to one similarity between data points where there are many, and chosen the one that fits the theory you WANT to believe. You cannot analyze a thing to prove what you believe. You must analyze a thing to find what is true. Lawyers make conclusions and then prove them- scientists find proof and make a conclusion. There is a reason lawyers aren’t responsible for landing on the moon, or writing anthropology papers. Once you’ve decided on a conclusion the data doesn’t matter, you can make it prove to you whatever you want to see.
My parents work hard to have the money to spoil me (although I'm not spoiled) and their patents did too.
There are rich and poor people everywhere.
And guess what? Doesn't matter how miserable your life is and how wealthy I get, I will always look down on whom victimize themselves.
[citation needed]
I'll stop making jokes and try to properly reason with you when you stop pulling stuff out of your ass.