Maybe. There's also the distinct possibility that becoming a more expensive employee put you closer to the chopping block if there's ever a hard time ahead.
Thankfully this ended well enough, rather than you finding out that you were doing inferior work compared to your counterpart.
Actually my own Dad lost his Job as a State Fire Marshal due to budget cuts. And they cut all the higher paid employees. He was the highest. When they knocked on his door of his office he already knew what was coming so he said I retire. Lol they had to pay a shit ton of benefits and such all because he said he wanted to retire before he was "let go". If he was "let go" he would of had to clean out his office that minute. But because he retired he had a whole 6 months till he had leave.
I think it's fair to say that if you polled everyone with a job, you would find that most people believe they are more valuable than the majority of their peers. Statistically speaking, this cannot be true because only 50% can truly be more valuable than the others. Open salary discussions WILL bring envy, jealousy, and resentment into your life!
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If you think you're worth more, have the discussion with the people who can change your pay. Discussing it with anyone else will likely result in drama.
Well I agree with the issues of people believing they are more valuable, open discussion of salary is actually a good way to promote workplace equality. Also, people sharing their salary information is a good way first step towards workers unions, which do make real positive impact on working conditions.
I don't think most people are as angry and jealous as this would make them appear. Sure, you might not be happy that your co-worker makes more than you do, but understanding that your coworker had been here for 3 years longer usually puts a lot of that to rest. And if there really is no reason your coworker should make more, than asking for a raise is not out of the question.
I’d have to agree. I started a new job once at the same time as 3 other workers. All the same gender, we were a mix of races (but there was no observable correlation between offer amount and race) and all about the same age. When they sent my offer they accidentally included the offers for the other 3 people, and all their offers were lower than mine.
This job required us to all sit in and shadow for 2 days before being offered the job so we had all talked and become acquainted. One of the others who had been excited to start the job and happy he’d be making more money than he was at his job quit before he started because he was upset his offer was lower than the others.
Another job I worked at we had a friend of mine who was a young and inexperienced tech. I was privy to payroll and like many in the management team knew he was the lowest paid employee there- not the lowest paid tech- the lowest paid person of all for any full time company position. He had spent years trying to get work in his field and it was a big name company he loved the brand and culture and job. When he found out he was the lowest paid person he went in and demanded a raise or he’d quit. He ended up quitting. The day before he felt happy and like a valued professional. Just that information changed his entire outlook- and his pay was justified. He was not only the newest hire but the least experienced- he was still learning and getting paid to learn and make mistakes that cost lots of money. Any “missing pay” in his check was essentially going to pay for the mistakes he was still making.
Years later with more experience he was hired back with the same company as one of the highest paid people. It can also change people’s attitudes towards each other. Suddenly when one finds out “Stan” makes more than them, things they used to do for Stan become “Stan can do it- he’s getting paid to..” things that before went unnoticed or were considered normal human imperfections become “for what Stan makes he should do better at this...” It can create feelings of inadequacy between people, resentment.
A friend and I worked at the same company and one year the raised came and they told me I was getting 30% less than the previous raise, but that was the current maximum raise and they had to fight to get it for me. I was all set to complain to my former who worked in a different group at lunch- but he got his raise and it was 50% less than mine- and he was told it was the maximum. To this day I don’t know if the maximum was simply different by group or department or if they just told everyone that. But I sure as heck wasn’t about to rub it in his nose that I got a bigger raise.
If that really is the maximum then it’s just discouraging to be told you got less. If it’s not really the maximum what are we going to do- quit? Either way jobs have a salary range and I’m happy with my workload and my salary. So I’m not going to do much better at a new job where I don’t have any seniority or established presence.
I’ve known friendships and professional relationships which have been strained or severed over pay differences. It’s nice in this case that this female worker was able to get a raise- but I’ve seen similar scenarios where that wasn’t the case, and where at the very least on a subconscious level it bred resentment. If you have a sibling who is seen as the “favorite” child- it isn’t their fault they are favored over you is it? Yet this is often a source of rivalry and resentment between siblings is it not? That they get better things and treatment by no virtue but being the favorite, and while they didn’t ask for it or take it from you- many people would on some level have that factor into their view and relationship with a person.
But- I’m old- and in my day we simply didn’t talk about things like that except perhaps with those very close to us. It was considered rude, and a source of trouble. “How could they be having money trouble? She makes so much?” “Why do we have to split the bill this way? They make more than I do!” “Oh- they just think they’re better because they make more money...” and so on. Comparison is often a negative thing.
We tend without even trying to compare ourselves to others. “When I was that age I was making....” “they’re not even as smart/hardworking/skilled as me and they make that much?!” And so on. We either are or are not happy- are or are not provided for- and if we fell we are not it is up to us to remedy that. An anonymous salary range for a given position can help keep people from being taken advantage of- and when broken into demographics and metrics can help find bias- but knowing what Chuck or Cheryl makes doesn’t do a lot of good because you aren’t them. There’s many reasons people make what they make.
In Germany, for a lot of jobs you can look up what people earn based on their years of experience. No negotiation possible, it's done by the unions.
But I guess that will sound like communism to Americans ...
From the current state of matters, that seems reasonable. But when you Realize that it was the unions that brought us free weekend, 40h weeks, holidays... Against almighty big companies, it seems foolish not to gather the negotiation strength of many workers
unions are the first and often times last line of defense against corporations doing literally the only thing corporations care about. Making money no matter how or what. Somewhere in the middle you have regulations. Those regulations tend to get made because of union lobbying or public outcry over deaths. Given the option every corp would be paying people nothing to work 24/7 until death with no product quality nor product safety concerns at all.
Actually, demonizing unions is kept popular by companies in order to keep people from demanding better conditions. The fact is, a vast majority of people benefit from unions, and getting rid of unions would ultimately result in companies finding new ways to get more money at the expense of employees.
I'm not saying personal negotiation shouldn't be permitted, just that unions should still exist and be upkept.
There are good unions and bad unions. Just like corporate management unions are just made of people- you’ll find the same people running unions usually who could be running corporations, and there is lots of money and power and favor to be had- where these conditions exist there’s room for corruption. Much like the law bureaucracy can be a big and annoying part of union jobs- but like the law it exists for a reason. Things are much faster and smoother when people share values and can just exercise best judgment- the problem is wen dealing with large and diverse groups of unknown people we can’t count on the best judgment and interpretations of each one, codification is meant to layout a “judgment” roadmap that anyone can follow.
Unions themselves in principal aren’t bad. Corporations have take of people working in their interests- often against the interests of workers where it benefits the company. No laws exist nor would be easily written saying simply “treat your works decent...” as... well we talked about individual interpretations and judgment already. If it were that easy unions never would have formed. A union in THEORY protects workers at levels government oversight isn’t practical or desirable. We certainly need some way other than the law as written or a total “libertarian” capitalism to protect workers- not just for them but for society. But unions as they exist need much reform so that those that do function on greed and complacency can be made to function as intended.
Good for you. HR here - it is actually illegal to tell employees they can’t discuss salary. This is because it has become defined as an equal pay issue.
Equal pay is also why employers in many places are not allowed to ask for previous salaries. That avoid people’s lack of past or present negotiation skills or other non-merit/non-directly-job-related reasons affecting current pay.
The reasoning is sound: If the job is worth $X, and the person is qualified, pay them $X. Employee salaries are costed into overhead.
As a side note: I have to say seeing it from my perspective, all this doom-and-gloom just sounds vaguely like an attempt to pour cold water, caution, or fear onto someone acknowledging openly they needed help. This is non-ideal. I said the above hoping that interjecting some establishment bias (law and regulation) in favor of this action will reassure you, and make you less likely to choose non-helpful or problematic reactions.
what country are you from? Because my job clearly states we are not allowed to discuss salary and my coworker lost their job over telling me how much they make. I got a raise tho.
Thankfully this ended well enough, rather than you finding out that you were doing inferior work compared to your counterpart.
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If you think you're worth more, have the discussion with the people who can change your pay. Discussing it with anyone else will likely result in drama.
I don't think most people are as angry and jealous as this would make them appear. Sure, you might not be happy that your co-worker makes more than you do, but understanding that your coworker had been here for 3 years longer usually puts a lot of that to rest. And if there really is no reason your coworker should make more, than asking for a raise is not out of the question.
This job required us to all sit in and shadow for 2 days before being offered the job so we had all talked and become acquainted. One of the others who had been excited to start the job and happy he’d be making more money than he was at his job quit before he started because he was upset his offer was lower than the others.
But I guess that will sound like communism to Americans ...
I'm not saying personal negotiation shouldn't be permitted, just that unions should still exist and be upkept.
It's complete and utter bullshit.
Equal pay is also why employers in many places are not allowed to ask for previous salaries. That avoid people’s lack of past or present negotiation skills or other non-merit/non-directly-job-related reasons affecting current pay.
The reasoning is sound: If the job is worth $X, and the person is qualified, pay them $X. Employee salaries are costed into overhead.
As a side note: I have to say seeing it from my perspective, all this doom-and-gloom just sounds vaguely like an attempt to pour cold water, caution, or fear onto someone acknowledging openly they needed help. This is non-ideal. I said the above hoping that interjecting some establishment bias (law and regulation) in favor of this action will reassure you, and make you less likely to choose non-helpful or problematic reactions.