Amazon is a PRIME example of when extreme Capitalism goes too far

I’m just saying that particular part of the analysis seems logically flawed. They obviously aren’t “all seeing,” they don’t have the man power to baby sit every employee. He laid on the floor 20 minutes. So let’s say that a warehouse response team- not paramedics, warehouse workers with some first aid training- in a large building might reasonably take 5-10 minutes to get to a victim? So someone had to notice he was down- and let’s say that a generous 5 minutes is enough time for someone to say: “hey, where the hell is Bill?” Ok. So someone notices he’s gone. Someone finds him... so 5-10 minutes before it’s noticed, 5-10 minutes before he gets help... that’s 0-10 minutes of “lag time” if no one witnessed the actual heart attack- in which case- why are we criticizing amazon and not the person who sees a guy having a heart attack and doesn’t call 911?

CPR could have saved his life- but we don’t have the details to know if he was found etc. in time that CPR would have or could have made a difference- and it may not have done anything. But ultimately- you don’t think that a company focused on robotic productivity would immediately send a manager at least if they noticed a guy Latin around while on his shift? They are running too many workers too hard without enough supervisors to keep tabs on the warehouse and the load- but that’s most warehouses. There are corners of a warehouse you could sit in and not be found for days- months perhaps- because they are huge buildings with remote corners and it isn’t practical to keep tabs on every inch of them 24/7.

I’m also not saying amazon doesn’t or shouldn’t have some liability. I’m saying we do not have the details from what is written there to say what or how much liability they have. What they reasonably could be expected to do differently to have prevented or mitigated the situation- and that the fact they watch employees doesn’t mean they can see all employees everywhere all day.

If a company catches every mistake every employee makes within minutes of making said mistake. They sure as sh!t knew he was lying there not moving. Never accept treating employees poorly.

Ah. But... do they catch every mistake every employee makes? Never got the wrong item from amazon? Never got more than one of something you ordered? I know a guy ordered 2 brake disks got 10. They didn’t catch that mistake- or many others I’ve seen or experienced. So they do not catch every mistake. They caught A mistake this guy made. What you are saying is called a “spurious correlation.” You’re linking two events that aren’t related. If your mom catches you sneaking out to go to the movies that doesn’t mean she’ll catch your sibling pretending to be sick to stay home from school. The fact she caught one kids deception doesn’t mean she’ll catch every one.

You cut school- you go to the mall. Your teacher is there. You get caught. What is your conclusion? Anytime you cut school your teacher knows and cuts school too? Your teacher is in every mall everywhere? Or perhaps... that one time- you happened to be at the same mall your teacher was, and you happened to be where your teacher was looking, and you got caught- but if you were to cut again and go to another mall... what do you think the odds are a teacher would be there too and see you?

As humans we often try to simplify things we can’t understand. We want to see things in a clear cause and effect relationship, and assume that all things are consistent in nature. It makes it easier to process information and to a degree- is a survival imperative. This can lead to logical leaps as you’ve taken- “This guy tried to sail over the horizon and never came back. Something must have happened. He must have fallen off the world!” It satisfies a need to expediently understand ones surroundings. It is wrong- but it is consistent and would keep you from danger. Likewise- I assure you that amazon is not all seeing- and even if they were they lack the processing ability to make use of that omnipresence with unerring success.

Amazon may not catch every single mistake such as sending 10 items instead of the 1 you ordered, yet I refuse to believe that no one noticed an employee lying on the ground for 20 minutes. You may be willing to accept that a company treating their employees poorly is something that one must just accept, well, I refuse to just accept it. There was a time when slavery was just accepted until people realized that it shouldn't be. One day people will wake up and not accept crap policies made by companies. One day.

I said in my first post that we don’t and shouldn’t accept it. There is a difference between reconciling reality and deciding one cannot change reality. But the details we have been given on the issue don’t show any proof of wrong doing by Amazon. Slavery came from acceptance but Lynching came from emotional and redactional responses based on preconceptions and assumptions.

So show me where Amazon dis wrong. Show me where they reasonably could have done better. Not just “they could have... they should have...” A doctor can be standing over you when you fall and you might still die. There is nothing in the blurb that says what amazon did or didn’t do beyond them not noticing he had a heart attack. Ok. So no one on the floor noticed either? There aren’t enough details. Or do you propose that we decide who is at fault for anything by asking the aggrieved for their story without any questions- and then decide based on that alone? Or perhaps... We should have more information before we start taking sides and not just do so based on who we like more or identify with more?

Google Amazon Fatality and this article is the first result. I'd post the link but it won't let me.

I have read up. As stated early- my previous comments are based only on the information presented HERE on this site- and specifically in reference to the lack of any significance to the idea that seeing a man make a mistake one day would be linked to seeing him have a heart attack another day.

After reading up on the incident- the man was found by a floor worker- the delay between when he was found and when he received care was minimal- or took 20 minutes to find him. CPR and defibrillation were administered quickly after he was discovered. 911 was called. The companies reaction to the incident seems proportional and appropriate based on all the details I can find. The fact they didn’t find him for 20 minutes is tragic- but I do not see how that is amazons fault or how- asides real time tracking of employees they would be expected to notice that.

I see potential fault on that the man had gone to a company clinic with early possible warning signs and was simply told he was dehydrated and given fluids. There seems that could be further investigated. Amazon also has a very poor track record with worker safety. That is in my opinion primarily a result of automation.

The type of logistics they do is face paced and precise. Accuracy and ability are of paramount importance. Unfortunately- you can’t really get the caliber of professionals you need for that demanding environment without better conditions and or much better pay. So- like many other companies they use “hard rules” that are simple, and automation as well as optimization of processes to try and make it so a monkey can do the job well. The systems and technology are made to compensate for a lack of talent and or professional aptitude and fitness.

So most of these guys are overworked, doing 16 hours of work for 2-3 people as one person in 8 hours. It would be a lot to ask of those rare humans who have “the stuff,” but because those humans are rare and you need thousands, and because rare humans usually don’t work for shit wage (or for long,) they get people who are WAY out of their depth- everyday. They know it. They are putting people in a dangerous situation.

I’m with that. We need to fix that. But... A shelf didn’t fall on him. A forklift didn’t run him over. He didn’t croak in front of his boss and his boss refused to help to make the afternoon cut off. He had a heart attack, and no one saw it, and then they helped him when they did. If I had a heart attack in my office I might not be found for 20+ minutes. That’s not an Amazon thing. Their doctors maybe coulda shoulda diagnosed the guy when he went in. That I see potential blame- so why is the thrust of the article about him not being found? Why is the brother hung up on that? That could happen anywhere and wasn’t malicious or irresponsible or negligent. The clinic- possible grievance. Shit pay and morals? Definite grievance. Guy has a heart attack and no one sees..? amazon isn’t a god. They don’t see all. No one does.

The brother is probably hung up on how long it took for the guy to be found because it's difficult to think of a loved one dieing alone and being somewhere for a long period of time when there are people around. Kinda get the impression that you're looking for someone to be standing over the body with a smoking gun in hand. Amazon is still a horrible company towards their employees. I can't imagine the long term stress they deal with and are paid less than a living wage.

Yes. They are a horrible company to their employees- personally I would argue they are horrible for and a blight on humanity as a whole. Charles Manson is a real sack of shit too- but if someone wanted to imply he was also a child molester or pin another murder on him I still wouldn’t shrug and go “meh. Don’t like him, and he is bad. Knock yourself out.” Id want to see some proof that he was guilty of being horrible in those specific instances. The guy may be hung up but the writer/editor have experience and training and those comments were included and placed where they are- worded and contextualized as they are- with specific intent. They are drawing the reader to a conclusion and an emotional state conducive to the conclusion they want you to see.

It isn’t a “win” for justice if you can’t arrest a criminal for a crime they committed but you secure a conviction for a crime they are innocent of. Likewise- Amazon is horrible. So let’s stick to the actual horrible things they do and not try to manufacture malice or malevolence from the fact some guys heart gave out at work and none of his coworkers cared or noticed. One or the other.

You can hate a company for whatever reason you choose. You may not be able to get through criminal justice but you still have social justice. Perhaps they will be caught like Al Capone was.

So Capone was caught for something he actually did. And yes- you can hate a company for whatever reason you like- but one shouldn’t confuse social justice and mob justice- and should realize the latter got a bad name and a semi satirical connotation to justice not because mob justice can’t be fair and just- but because it usually ends up in a witch hunt or kangaroo court where the collective individual thinking of guilt before evidence and motion before logic or prudence leads to not justice- but a way of exercising personal grudges or demons- a tool for catharsis at the expense of another.

Amazon stands accused (and largely guilty in my book-) of making sacrifices of their employees to feed their own desires and whims. If we would be guilty of doing the same go Amazon- how could we ask them to be better when we refuse to? What is different about us than them save that they have the power to enact their will at the expense of others? One cannot fight a war of ideals if one shares the same ideals and merely seeks a different victim or ends to the same means.

Justice is supposed to be blind metaphorically- not in the literal sense that it wields a sword indiscriminately. Every person is a drop of water in a great big glass- but it only takes one drop of poison to ruin a good drink no? If you seek to remove poison don’t become the poison.