Believe me, he deserved much worse. Not just for bullying me, but dozens of other kids

So- if you beat up your bully... you MIGHT stop them from bullying YOU- but that doesn’t inherently stop them from bullying others- it certainly doesn’t address the underlying pathologies that lead to their actions, I mean- if it were that simple therapists would all be jacked and just whoop people’s asses until they stopped cheating on partners or wing depressed or having low self esteem, anxiety, etc.

So let’s say EVERYONE they bully beats them up? Well now... who’s being “bullied” and who’s the bully? The kid who gets a raised fist and a “you want another one Davey?” Every time they step out of social bounds- or the group who collectively has rejected them?

Not EVERY bully has some pathology. Some are just sadistic, but perhaps that sadism is a form of sociopathy or other pathology. Most people won’t know their bully intimately enough to say. The kid who was bullied may face life long consequences mentally and emotionally- caused by the bully- but the bully will also likewise face life long consequences and a good deal of the time- they were already suffering psychologically or emotionally before their victims were made to.

“Poor bully” right? Well... sorta. If we’ve got a kid who is acting out because of abuse or neglect at home- who can’t even trust or rely on the adults in their life and knows bullying as just simply how people behave from what they’ve seen or felt- no outlet for whatever emotions or traumas etc. except to act out and hurt others- what we have is a child victim of adults creating child victims of children.

The bully is the obvious outlet for our upset- the direct cause of our suffering. They also are our own age group which makes them a better target for revenge fantasies. It’s less realistic and satisfying to think about beating up an adult parent of a bully as a child- and once you’re an adult it’s still more satisfying and practical to think of beating up your relative same age bully than it is to go find their 60,80 year old parents and whoop their ass or make them suffer. Certainly more socially acceptable than a grudge against a 90lb health dead person in a diaper.

That ain't the victim's concern. Particularly not when their money, wellbeing, or self worth are on the line

Power. Often bully’s want power itself or they want something and use the power bullying gives to get it. They take our power and we want it back. A kid fighting an adult- probably gonna lose, so you can’t really get your power back that way. An able adult fighting someone older and more frail doesn’t make us feel more powerful in general- and perhaps as important or won’t make those who witnessed our “humiliation” see us as redeemed- more likely we will be shunned as well.

Teaching bullies that bullying doesn’t work can help end their bullying, helping bullies be accepted or get some other place in the social fabric of peers can also help. Determining the cause of their bullying and correcting it can go a long way- they still will likely have trauma to work through but stopping the bleeding and preventing them from spreading the hurt goes a long way.

But is it effective to cripple a bully? At stopping their bullying there is no reason to believe it is more effective than throwing fists or pinning them until they relent- and that itself is questionable in effectiveness beyond a last resort. Modern bullying still sees physical violence but it is less “school yard lug” and more sophisticated psychological and social manipulation that can be even more damaging than wet willies and stollen lunch money.

I’m sorry that you went through that- and as far as bullying goes- attempted crucification is rather severe and I’m appalled that no one did anything. But we have to ask- what really would have come from it if you were able to crucify them back? Perhaps more importantly- could you get the same, better, or similar results from something other than such extreme measures?

*as a caveat I was a royal little shit. Not a child bully- but just... I was a bad kid. I was violent and I understood violence. I would fight- full on knock down brawl my mother- like before I was even 10- maybe as young as 5-6, we once had a rumble dead in the middle of the busiest street in town. That’s when I found out women don’t have wieners because I tried to mike kick hers to drop her. I was bad. She whooped my ass.

I never won a fight against my mother because I could hurt her, I could maybe win a segment of a fight- but the fight didn’t end until she won. She’s undefeated. It took her years of ass beating to impart upon my stubborn mind that I was powerless to fight her. She broke me like a horse and by the time I was 10 I didn’t even try to fight her, and we came to an understanding that had me pretty well behaved when it concerned her or her rules (she didn’t have many but that’s another story.)

Point being- I know that at least in my case- violence was the answer. It was the language I spoke and my mother was a freaking PHD and taught me a master course. I’d still fight- but I didn’t fight her, I didn’t fight teachers or anyone she’d get mad about- just peers, and I’m accordance with her rules for justified combat. So sometimes yeah- a bully just needs to get their ass beat until they learn. But just as easily that can create a bigger bully too. What worked in my case doesn’t work for all- and you don’t really find out until they are grown up and you see what effect it had on them.

@famousone- it may not be the concern of the bullied- but it IS the concern of society. If I have rats in my condo and no one will fix it- why can’t I just burn it down? It’s my condo. It’s my problem. It’s my life and my property and I am self remedying it. IF burning down my condo causes damage to my neighbors then that’s between them to settle with me isn’t it? Their property, their problem, etc? But if you call 911 you don’t just get a recording saying: “it’s your problem. Figure it out” do you? From the perspective of society- the many people who also need to be able to live and work etc- how you solve your problems matters if that solution causes problems for other people. Catching all my rats and releasing them on your home so they’ll have a good place to stay and won’t come back to mine right away isn’t something you’d advocate for is it?

I'm not advocating against trying to pin down the underlying issues, I'm just pointing out that it isn't the victim's problem, nor should they be expected to understand or remedy the background.

I mean- it kinda IS the victims problem. The bullet isn’t the problem- the fact it penetrated into your body that is. So if you look down and see bleeding and have a fever- Tylenol and sealing the wound will fix that- but just because you can’t see the bullet doesn’t mean it isn’t your problem. It’s the thing causing the problem. The guy who shot the bullet is probably your problem too. Taking out the bullet doesn’t help if he shoots you again does it? So it’s not exactly the PROBLEM- but it’s the CAUSE of the problem- and that’s usually pretty important when it comes to actually solving problems.

In the more philosophical space- should the victim know or care? Is it more important to figure out why you and your coworker keep fighting, or to just make sure you “win” every fight? It’s certainly more humane and probably better for everyone long term to figure out what problem is and work it out. So morals may vary- but where practical I’d say it is the moral imperative to understand. It’s definitely tactically prudent to know your enemy, how they think, why, what they see and how they see it.

I ain't thinking about that when someone's trying to force my head into a used toilet.

No. Of course not. That’s not practical is it? Your goal there is to not go into the toilet right? But- we can both agree that snapping their neck isn’t a proportionate response to fear of a swirly. If they start to drown you then perhaps so- but BEFORE you go in the toilet the goal is to not go in the toilet- not to kill them right?

So now you’ve slipped their grip and are safe from the toilet; or you weren’t able to defend yourself and you went in the toilet and then they left.
Ok- so NOW, in between today’s toilet bowl attempt and tomorrow’s purple nurple attempt or whatever else makes up this pattern of bullying- NOW you aren’t in danger and you DO have the ability to think.

This is where we think tactically. How can I avoid being in a bad situation? How can I better use my surroundings to defend myself? How can I project force or strength to dissuade future actions? What are my tools? What are my options and what ways do those most likely play out?

But- very importantly- if someone tries to punch you in the face or throw you in a toilet- the scientific mind, the sharp and curious mind of a survivalist- will ask: “why did that happen?”

If you keep getting attacked by bears while you’re in the woods, if you’re the first guy that always gets shot at- in the moment- you don’t have a lot of time to fart around. AFTER- preferably BEFORE once you have reason to suspect danger- you’ll ask yourself “why?”

Cause it’s far more productive- alone in the Woods- to figure out WHY you seem to be attracting stinging bugs than it is to just shrug and roll with it. One less thing you have to worry about if you can figure out WHY. Is it something about your clothes that are attracting insects? Have something in your pockets? Are you walking near a nest or breeding ground, and by just going a different route could avoid it? Do they tend to sting at daybreak? Could you travel at another time to avoid them? Do they seem to avoid a certain flower? Maybe you can figure out why and use that?

No law says people gotta be smart. At least not yet. No force can compel us to use our brains. We can lower our shoulders and plow through life like bulldozers- or... discretionally- we can use that big super monkey head of ours as something other than a hammer to solve problems.

Robbed of time and resources we do what we must do. If the truck tumbles off the mountain and you need eat the injured to survive there’s no shame... unless it turns out you didn’t need to- there was a fresh pond full of fish or a whole bunch of food in the truck but you just chose to the most extreme solution or never really bothered to check on other options.

Wow Guest, you had a LOT to say. TLDR, but I can make it all condensed into one simple statement: "no bullying is allowed, but nothing the victims do will be punished and nothing short of unconsciousness or death goes on anyone's permanent record."
Bullies make use of the fact that the system, protects THEM. Rule followers are afraid of consequences, bullies are rule breakers, so they get by on being risk adverse. Most of my old bullies are business people, parents, former HS state champs (big surprise). They learned that doing what you want, even illegal, is acceptable if you dont get caught or society let's you slide on it.
So I say, if a kid is being bullied at school, and the school is blind to it, they should be blind to what the victim does to retaliate. THEN, the bullie learns consequences, and the victim learns closure. The world wins.

In broad strokes principal I am with you. Kids learning to solve their own issues one way or another is important. Falls apart though. “No serious harm no foul...” You can permanently cripple a person without knocking them out or killing them. You can do something that is lowly or intended to kill someone and fail- that’s what attempted murder is; you can also not mean to harm them but kill them- that’s usually manslaughter or negligent homicide. Setting rules that don’t punish anything short of death sets up some problems- a very central one being....

What about less cartoonish or “classic” bullying like cyber bullying or psychological/social/verbal bullying? Now again- in principal I’m for a society where you can pop someone in the lip for being too mouthy- but it’s got too many complications. As it applies here though- we don’t live in that society. When that kid grows up and Johnson steals credit for their work, Wu uses targeted CC and BCC in emails to make them look bad, Kline drops their end of the project because they know you care enough to pick it up and they’ll still get credit, etc. etc- you can’t punch them in the face even if your bosses and no one else will do anything.

The “loser bully” is a rule breaker. They have an almost 60% of having legal and or financial problems when they get older if they don’t get under control because their flagrant violation of rules and use of violence stops being “permissible” and becomes a crime or a serious matter. The “successful bully” is better at bending or breaking rules less flagrantly. They manipulate and calculate. Many siblings can relate to either having or being the sibling that would act up or push their siblings buttons until the sibling snaps and then the parents see this and the non instigating sibling gets in trouble and looks like the “trouble maker.”

Business and politics and power tend to reward people who get what they want and get others what they want. Remember these slightly paraphrased quotes from our current impeachment trial: “we have enough evidence to say he did what he is accused of, but what he is accused of doesn’t warrant impeachment...” or “He did what he did because he thought, and many including myself agree, that it was in the countries best interest that he be elected. A presidential candidate looking out for the best interest of the country isn’t impeachable.”

As adults we like bullies.. provided they are on our side. We like the person that says: “This deal could be better. I’m going to go get you more...” We hire them as lawyers, as leaders, we value them as friends- the internet hates a “Karen” until you’ve got a $1,000 bill or item that needs returned that doesn’t meet store policy, or noisy neighbor no one will help with etc- and then we are happy when a “Karen” in our lives steps in and says: “Not on my watch. Let me take care of it..” and pushes until we get what we want.

If you want gun control you like bullies. If you don’t want gun control or less- you like bullies. People who will go out and manipulate and threaten and coerce; who will turn people against each other or compel them with threats of being made the kid no one else will play with. When these people are “on our team” we all are usually very happy with that.

And so yeah. I wrote a lot- because it’s fun to fantasize and just say “we should just be able to bop ‘bad behaving folks’ in the mouth until they get right...” but it isn’t so simple. Even defining who behaves badly isn’t simple. See previous comments on the impeachment. Most of the government agrees the president did a bad thing- much of the country won’t say he did anything wrong- and no two people who agree on the other part seem to quite agree on what should happen.

I’ll make a short statement here: I am all for kids growing up having experienced minor bullying. I made a sort of rule: you can only bully a kid on what they can change. This means no bullying on race or sexuality, but clothes and other aspects. This allows for the kid to change, instead of feeling helpless to stop. Y’all get me?
Idk, probably unpopular opinion.