Look. I'm sorry if I offended anyone. It wasn't my intention. Yes I got over involved. Yes it's stupid because it's the internet. But hey we all have bad days. I meant no harm. And I genuinely hope everyone has a wonderful day.
Even the Assholes.
This was around before and it used to saytourist greets a friend, apparently he didn't realise the wave was close to the Nazi salute.
Then out of nowhere it started being captioned that it was at a refugee demonstration.
TL;DR we don't know the true context, don't assume anything.
Has more to do with the history behind the gesture, especially when combined with the situation. Nazi propaganda and gestures are illegal, and its enforced.
No matter how or why you think opinion has something to do with race (racism means discriminating other races, read a book, for Gods sake), you simply don't get the point. The german people has and always will have a certain responsablity to stand up against people who hate others just because of being born in another country, being of another religion or sexual orientation.
Unfortunately it seems today that it is mostly Germany taking this part whilst other countries and people just won't learn from history, most probably cause it's not their own.
Glorifying Hitler or the Third Reich has nothing to see with freedom of speech, but is either pure ignorance or stupidity. In most cases both.
I'm sorry. I've grown up in a country that allows you to burn your own flag. Tell the police to F off. Express yourself in any manner that doesn't actually harm another person. I can't shout "Fire" in a movie theater or shout "Gun" in a crowded park unless there is a fire or a gun. But I have the right to say or do things that 'precious snowflakes' find upsetting. It's our First, that's right we decided that Free Speech was our First, Amendment. So if you have to control people so that you can't have conversation then well don you Fascist.
It has everything to do with freedom of speech, dude. If they can say that his speech is wrong, who's to say that they won't decide that your speech is also wrong?
First they came for the Socialists, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a Socialist.
Then they came for the Trade Unionists, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a Trade Unionist.
Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a Jew.
Then they came for me—and there was no one left to speak for me.
We, as well are allowed to tell our cops to fuck off or to burn any flag we think is convenient. But tell me why the flag of the confed is a banned item in most places now?
For the exact same reason we banned the swastika flag. Learning from history.
Telling someone he's an asshole, because he does asshole things is freedom of speech. Telling someone he's an asshole cause he's black, white or muslim, jew, gay etc is racism and has nothing to see with democratic behaviour or any sort of social intelligence.
Glorifying Hitlers regime is a complete lack of empathy with millions of victims and a stand for hatred which leads nowhere but destruction and suffer.
Our society has lost the freedom of speech to Hitler and his maniacs and we only got all freedom back by being bombed to hell and it is our first duty to keep the same shit from going on again.
In this case, the "precious little snowflakes" here are the ones insisting that they have the right to their free speech, and fnck the consequences. Well, Germany is pretty aware of the consequences, which is why they they don't play around with that shit. At all. Most of us know what fascism is because of Germany's past, and that country has both paid a heavy price for it as well as taken great strides to try and overcome it.
Its pathetic that the ones who once fought against fascism are now rapidly approaching that state of government themselves (UK post-BRExit, America electing Trump), etc. while Germany seems to be the last hold-out of sanity, and they are working overtime to keep their own people from drinking the Hate Kool-Aid.
Well... Asshole.
Martin Niemölle You mean this guy? He was a national conservative and initially a supporter of Adolf Hitler,[2] but made remarks about Jews that some scholars have called antisemitic. But eventually he realized they were going to kill him even though he denied others of their right to speak. Then he cried into his soup and made a statement.
Your society only lost it's freedom because of itself. We also risk that. I am not denigrating you or anyone else. If I implied that then it is my error. I simply (and simply is the word) think that a government should not, and in the end never will, control public speech.
The Hitler salute has NOTHING but really actually literally NOTHING to do with freedom of speech. It's an extremely strong symbol of HATE and RACISM. Period. Millions were slaughtered. Cities were bombed. Countries were starved. Five years of famine and fear. Calling this freedom of speech is stupendously ignorant. Where I'm from, you get punched in the face within a second if you raise your arm like that.
It is so incredibly easy for young people in the US to deny something that happened on the other side of the globe almost a century ago. Have you any idea what this salute symbolizes? Have you seen the effects of WWII, that are visible in Europe even 75 years later?
It is only as strong as you make it. You, You are the one making it strong. Nobody else gives a damn. I live in a country with the second largest Jewish population in the world. They give no shiats about somebody expressing themselves with a wave. Really. Cities were bombed. I'm sorry.German idiots picked him and Germans followed him. Nobody had to starve. I assure you that if hostilities had stopped the Allied nations would have come to aid. As they did after the war.
Look Fucktard. My grandfather was in the US Navy in 1943. My Dad fought in Vietnam and fortunately made it back. My Sister fought in Iraq.I did service in Afghanistan. My dignity is not in question. We don't fight for World Dominance. We could have done that every F-ing year since 1945. Get over it.
This isn't free speech this is celebrating a reich that killed millions of people. It's not allowed in Germany, anything related to nazi party could get you arrested. You talk about people saying fuck the police but then defend someone breaking a law?
You don't get to decide what free speech is for me unless I get to decide what free speech os for you. If you get to squelch what someone says or expresses because you don't consider it free speech bu celebrating a despicable regime, then you are definitely deciding what speech is appropriate.
That's correct, I get to decide what is free speech and so do you you. These get codified into something we call "laws", since the majority of people decide what speech is free and what speech isn't allowed. Communities are allowed to do that.
Maybe using that particular salute was okay *before* the nazis appropriated it (just like their symbol, non-reversed, used to be a recognizable symbol that meant peace on the Indian subcontinent was okay). Because of their actions which included exterminating 11 million people, those symbols are reminders of those actions. As such, they aren't acceptable to use, since it glorifies those actions. Free speech does not translate into freedom from repercussions of that free speech. In Germany, if you toss a nazi-related salute or symbol out there, you go to jail - do not pass go, do not collect $200. You. Go. To . Jail. In America, you get a beating. As well you should.
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· 7 years ago
But the "majority" don't decide laws, the elite do. What is so threatening about allowing everyone the opportunity to say everything? If you're confronted with an opinion that challenges your world view, but the opposing idea is nonsense, then you can process it and immediately dismiss it. If the challenging idea helps you to better understand or even adapt your worldview then you've grown as a person.
This is a generation that hasn't been told 'no' enough, we now have young adults who not only cannot hear something, but need legislation to protect their delicate sensibilities.
I somewhat agree. The 'Safe Spaces' and the 'Defined free speech areas" are the result of the "Not enough no." But this is also a generation of acceptance. Same-Sex marriage, open conversation about sexuality, marijuana legalization. And even the "Elite" in the US come around to reasoned conversation about differences. If free speech were squelched most countries would still have slavery/fiefdoms and racisim would be much worse.
Ah, but once you start deciding what is speech is free, it is no longer free, it becomes restricted. The most hateful white supremacist in the world has just as much right to voice their opinion as the most bleeding heart liberal. Also, liberals can sometimes be just as hateful and racist as your average skinhead. Hate Speech does not exist, only hateful speech.
Even the Assholes.
Then out of nowhere it started being captioned that it was at a refugee demonstration.
TL;DR we don't know the true context, don't assume anything.
Unfortunately it seems today that it is mostly Germany taking this part whilst other countries and people just won't learn from history, most probably cause it's not their own.
Glorifying Hitler or the Third Reich has nothing to see with freedom of speech, but is either pure ignorance or stupidity. In most cases both.
Because I was not a Socialist.
Then they came for the Trade Unionists, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a Trade Unionist.
Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a Jew.
Then they came for me—and there was no one left to speak for me.
For the exact same reason we banned the swastika flag. Learning from history.
Telling someone he's an asshole, because he does asshole things is freedom of speech. Telling someone he's an asshole cause he's black, white or muslim, jew, gay etc is racism and has nothing to see with democratic behaviour or any sort of social intelligence.
Glorifying Hitlers regime is a complete lack of empathy with millions of victims and a stand for hatred which leads nowhere but destruction and suffer.
Our society has lost the freedom of speech to Hitler and his maniacs and we only got all freedom back by being bombed to hell and it is our first duty to keep the same shit from going on again.
Its pathetic that the ones who once fought against fascism are now rapidly approaching that state of government themselves (UK post-BRExit, America electing Trump), etc. while Germany seems to be the last hold-out of sanity, and they are working overtime to keep their own people from drinking the Hate Kool-Aid.
Martin Niemölle You mean this guy? He was a national conservative and initially a supporter of Adolf Hitler,[2] but made remarks about Jews that some scholars have called antisemitic. But eventually he realized they were going to kill him even though he denied others of their right to speak. Then he cried into his soup and made a statement.
Your society only lost it's freedom because of itself. We also risk that. I am not denigrating you or anyone else. If I implied that then it is my error. I simply (and simply is the word) think that a government should not, and in the end never will, control public speech.
Maybe using that particular salute was okay *before* the nazis appropriated it (just like their symbol, non-reversed, used to be a recognizable symbol that meant peace on the Indian subcontinent was okay). Because of their actions which included exterminating 11 million people, those symbols are reminders of those actions. As such, they aren't acceptable to use, since it glorifies those actions. Free speech does not translate into freedom from repercussions of that free speech. In Germany, if you toss a nazi-related salute or symbol out there, you go to jail - do not pass go, do not collect $200. You. Go. To . Jail. In America, you get a beating. As well you should.
This is a generation that hasn't been told 'no' enough, we now have young adults who not only cannot hear something, but need legislation to protect their delicate sensibilities.