Warning: Political (Also, thoughts?)

I have said this before. Even if someone is against abortion they still shouldn't want it banned. If you ban it, you're just taking away the safe option and leaving them with only dangerous choices.

I don't want it taken away I just don't
want the government and more importantly our taxes paying for it. It should be privately funded

It is our taxes, but planned parenthood is a lot more than just abortion. It's also about birth control, mammograms, and supporting women who can't support their kids alone. Your tax dollars already pay for a lot of things to keep people healthy and save lives, why not also fund something that women need to keep themselves healthy?

So...you're willing to have funding for unneeded weapons and gross sized military, but not a medical procedure? Please remember that there are people on low income and on welfare that can't actually afford to buy detergent let alone privately pay for an abortion.
@chilledtothebone is correct.

The US military is the backbone of the western world. Without us as a deterrence then every bad guy in the world, and some of the good guys, would tear the world apart.
.
Low income families would benefit more from education than from a "get out of jail" card.

You're kidding right? Your military being stupidly large hasn't prevented squat. The most you guys have done is kill Bin Laden, which was a small squad and was a winfail considering the cock up with the blackhawk. And although 9/11 is considered an attack on the western hemisphere it was in fact an attack on American arrogance and bravado.
Low income family's would benefit from BOTH an education AND help. Education alone is not enough. Especially when you consider how shit the American education system is, aside from the crappy medical care. I'm so glad I live in a country with a decent education system and hospitals that won't turn me away and let me die if I can't afford an operation or medicine. And before you say it I know that the NHS is in trouble but I'd rather have a troubled system than a system that is careless, greedy and failing it's countrymen.

Although I do dislike the amount poured into the military, don't get me wrong, but I see the reason behind it. Literally the us compensates for the military power that their allies do not have. Also the one thing you get wrong about the healthcare system is that they'll turn you down if you have no money which is false, although not free they will still help you out the big difference is that you won't die but you'll have a debt. All in all funding is a tricky thing to do when war Is a big factor in our lives

It was in a report by the (pro-choice) Alan Guttmacher Institute.
Which I *conveniently* can't find now that I try to defend myself online.
What if I switch to "Less than 0.5% of abortions are due to incest or rape, whereas over 90% are deemed 'elective' abortions, often for social or economic reasons. 4% of respondents say they don't want a child to interfere with their career."
And then what if I cite the (pro-choice) Alan Guttmacher Institute?
https://www.guttmacher.org/sites/default/files/pdfs/tables/370305/3711005t3.pdf

http://www.johnstonsarchive.net/policy/abortion/abreasons.html
Scroll to the charts

I love how the charts show that less than half a percent of abortions are because of rape or incest, like I said, but you get all the upvotes.
Classic.

False. Technically sperm and egg already fulfill the terms of life. What you're arguing is whether or not it forms a human. But wait you say, it is a human because it's human cells.
That's like saying if I'm losing human because I have a nosebleed and my blood is human cells. Until a certain point, the sperm-egg combo is just a cancerous parasite. Well...strictly speaking the entire baby is a parasite until birth and arguably is still a parasite until it moves away.

This law was proposed to show the ridiculous approach to abortion by mocking people who believe that the moment you're done having sex there's a third person in the room. No there's not, it's just parasitic goo.

No the sperm and egg do not fulfill the criteria of life. Those criteria are not fulfilled by sperm and egg are that they can not grow, they can not adapt to their environment and they do not have any levels or organization. I have never thought of the nosebleed argument and I admit it makes some sense but nosebleeds do not count as losing humans because your blood is a make up of YOUR human body. A baby is not a made up of YOUR human body because it has its own DNA makeup. That is what makes it its own being. It
Is a human because it contains the chromosomal makeup of a human and is the resultant of human reproduction. A natural occurrence. And a baby is not a parasite because a parasite is a foreign object in a host. Where as a baby part of the reproductive cycle so it is not a foreign object in your body.

I really do like the ideas that you are presenting. But most importantly thank you for keeping this discussion civil and intellectual :)

It is of human material but not a person.

Define a person please.

You are not "murdering another human being" you are stopping it from being born to prevent the ruin of your and/or it's life. We have enough human beings on this planet already so if you want to complain about saving human lives, just adopt. No one feels pain and having a child is like sex. If you are feeling unsure, don't do it, bottom line. Most cases, it will only spiral out of hand if you leap into things before you're ready.

A cancer contains the genes of its host but it's still a parasite. Cancer is arguably "natural".
person: a human being regarded as an individual
A zygote is not individual of its host.

@german_satan , I am not unsure of what your argument is here but in regards to the pieces of it individually, to the first sentence, if I Kill someone today I am not murdering it, I am just stopping it from growing any further and potentially ruining my or its life. Again as I stated above, it is about the "me myself and I" mentatilty. It might ruin my life so let's dispose of it. Not, it could have a great life or it could potentially be a wonderful person. To your second comment, there are not too many people on this planet. According to recent research it is possible to take all of the people in this planet and fit them within the state of California. There is still plenty of room. To your third sentence, I have stated already that I plan on adopting at a later time. I don't understand what you are saying in your fourth sentence and so forth. But if I am reading it the way I think, I agree. There is a reason my girlfriend and I do not have sex and it is so we do not have that chanc

If you want to have sex, assume the responsibility of the consequences of your actions. It is similar to the OP argument about cancer. The correct analogy here although would be that if you smoke, you can't just get rid of the cancer that could develop. If you have sex and get pregnant, you have to assume responsibility for your actions.

You have no responsibility to ruin yourself for another being. Whether you birth it or not. If you aren't fit to survive, you won't, that's just how it is. So, yes, "if it might ruin my life, let's dispose of it".

@i_ cancer is in no way natural. Cancer is caused by mutations and damaging to cells in the host. Cancer is not a parasite either. And a zygote is considered an individual by law due
To the double homicide rule if a pregnant woman is murdered. Also it is considered an individual because while it relies on the mother for nutrients, it is able to reproduce its own cells and grow its own body. The nutrients side things is I will admit a little bit of grey area between a parasite and zygote. That much there is no real good argument for.

@german_satan , I just want to clarify. Are you say saying at If i have a four year old child and I can't ford food for myself because the child needs food (thus causing me to ruin myself) I can dispose of the child how I see fit?

No, because in the society we live in that is murder, unless you are talking about putting it up for adoption. That can go two ways, getting the child a better life or not. Either way, it seems selfish, but yes you can. I'm not saying that you can't grow attached to things and have a desire to take care of it and nurture it, I'm saying you don't have to. There is the responsibility of reproducing for your species and making sure those things live, but at the point we're at (with 7-8 billion humans alive) that doesn't have to be such a priority anymore.

But the argument at hand is whether society's view on abortion is wrong or flawed so you can't say that the society we live in calls that murder because a lot of soceity calls abortion murder too. Not to mention in an argument such as this, you cannot use societal definitions as a scape goat for an argument. There was a question of "if it is thought that a child could ruin your life, can you dispose of it". The answer applies to both cases in a nonsubjective view.

No, we only "murder" it before it is born because it can potentially harm our bodies. After it is out is a different story, there is no need to "murder" it because it cannot physically harm you, but you can abandon it.

Just for informational purposes, it is sleepytime of this ideaologist so I will check back with so of you tomorrow :)

Alright, cool. G'night

Good morning all you funsubstancers out there. In reply to the last comment, a child has the potential to kill someone even out side of the womb. There are plenty stories out there about children picking up a parents gun or stabbing their parent after a psychotic break. Now after a little bit of research I now see that the maternal death rates may be higher than previously thought so I will have to do more in looking into that. Thank you for the argument :). I guess we are arguing semantics at this juncture. But do you see the point I am trying to make? Anything is potentially dangerous, that doesn't mean we should dispose of them. Cars are potentially dangerous, other people are the biggest dangers. We can't just dispose of them because of a chance.

Yes, but normally children are not dangerous outside of the womb. If the child is planning to murder you, it would be self defense if you killed it. Also, it's not just a chance, it is a fact that child birth is extremely painful and people would like to avoid that pain. It will most likely harm your body, and deform it to some extent. Child birth produces severe damages to the body that you have to work hard to reverse. If you aren't even going to keep the child, what's the point of ruining your body (and possibly your self-esteem) for it?

But we are talking about ending the life of a human because of looks and inconvenience. It doesn't matter if the baby is in or outside the womb. It is taking a life and throwing it away for cosmetic and conscience reasons

Yes, exactly. It doesn't matter that it's a child, if it is threatening to your well being, it would only seem appropriate to remove it. It is not because of "looks" or "inconvenience". It is because of real life things, like excruciating pain, poverty, and just your general well being. It sucks for the clump of cells, but this person has no responsibility to give her life for its, go through pain for it, or ruin her life to the point where she is live on the street for it. If you have to take another life to save your own, you'd do it. If you wouldn't, that's bad survival skills, and you'd just die, end of story (literally, heh heh pun).

But we aren't talking about death of the mother. We are talking about pain (which can be lessened by painkillers) and cosmetics of their vaginas. But we are now going around in circles so how about we agree to disagree and continue our friendship with a new foundation and appreciation for one another :)

If you insist, we can stop the argument. I agree to disagree.

A+ to everyone in this thread. The civility makes me smile :)

Yeah, it's nice to have a civilized debate without anything getting personal.

So I can decide to drug someone until they don't feel anything and then kill them? You can't harm someone else's body because you want to.

But if you kill someone that's a murder, because it's a living organism. Until the point where the woman can't have the abortion, the baby is not considered to be alive and that's why abortion is legal

If you want to speak legally then yea. But the whole point of this debate is discussing what the law should be. And biologically speaking it is alive as soon as the egg and sperm meet and it attaches to the uterine wall because it fulfills the biological criteria of life.

Even though that would be considered life, the embryo is just another cell like the other millions of your body, at this point it's not as important as when it starts to develop; embryos at the beginning are just cells, when they start changing into human life, then it's illegal to abort them.
Speaking in law, they follow this idea, after a time, the babies are alive because it has started to form and starts to feel things. In that moment is where nobody can't abort them.

But it is life. So you are ending a life which does not need to be ended.

It is not a life. It's a clump of cells.

Silver shush

No, these are my serious and honest opinions of women. they shouldn't even be allowed near computers, they're too dumb.

Sorry, Mythy. But you must be silenced

Alright, this is going to be good

DELETE THIS WHORE'S COMMENT
WOMEN SHOULD NOT BE ALLOWED ON POSTS
WHY IS SHE HERE?

You gave away to much
You must be silenced

*ahem*
OH MY FUCKING GOD WHICH COUNTRY DO YOU LIVE IN THAT WOMEN AREN'T ALLOWED TO SPEAK FOR THEMSELVES?! AND SO WHAT IF I'M A WHORE, MAYBE I LOVE SLEEPING AROUND BUT YOU SHOULDN'T WALK AROUND JUDGING OTHERS, ONLY GOD CAN JUDGE ME YOU USELESS PAPERCLIP

can someone just fucking come over here and get triggered so I can start a shitstorm? hurry up feminists

@german_satan YOU SEXIST HOW DARE YOU DELETE MY COMMENTS I BET ROSEBUD IS YOUR SECRET LOVER YOU ASSHOLE

I TOLD YOU TO MAKE ME A MOTHERFUCKING SANDWICH
WOMEN ARE DUMBER THAN A SACK OF POTATOES WHY DO YOU THINK YOU'RE ALLOWED TO BE HERE? GET THE HELL OUT YOU SLUT
NO ONE LIKES YOU AND YOUR PARENTS WISH YOU HAD A Y CHROMOSOME INSTEAD

IM A WOMEN
HOW AM I A SEXIST

WHAT THE FUCK DO YOU THINK YOURE DOING MAKING POSTS THEN YOU ABSOLUTE BITCH
GET THE FUCK OFF OUR FUCKING WEBSITE YOU FUCKING FUCKER

I'M WHITE.
HOW CAN I BE A RACIST

Personally, I support the women who sleep around and get pregnant all the time. It is the men who are the problem, who said the could ejaculate in there? They should learn to hold it in.

YOU SHOULD LEARN TO KEEP YOUR VAGINA ZIPPED YOU PROSTITUTES
WHERES MY FUCKING SANDWICH
OR MY SUPERSUIT

IM BLACK
HOW CAN I BE RACIST

I will keep my legs wide open, thank you very much. All men should be castrated and science should be able to create only females from now on (but that hasn't happened yet, because of all the dumb fucking men scientists).

okay I give up I actually don't have a response to that
This was fun though
We should just make shitstorns all the time so that no one takes trolls seriously anymore

I'm so proud
*wipes away tear*

This felt surprisingly good. My headache is gone actually.

*slow clap*

I'm hoping this arguement was a joke.

...was it? Will you ever know?

I hope it was. I was gonna come to your defence

Aww that's sweet honey :)
Don't worry bout me though, you shouldn't take this comment thread seriously :D

OK I won't. But if you DO ever need a hand let me know :)

Wow this is a train wreck

Thanks @peachypersimmon <3

Question rosebud. Are you dimmer or yogi because I haven't seen either for a while. And if you're dimmer, when did you get to make comments?

??? Rosebud was banana

@aspy523 as I said: don't take this discussion seriously

Don't, we are not serious

Wow, last night I went to bed with seven likes on the first comment I come back and a lot of people didn't even try to read the comment chain, they just decided I was wrong.

I never even took yogi and dimmer seriously and this was way more obviously trolling, but I didn't really take banana to be this trolly so that's why I asked.

Mmmm, kinky

That's my fetish

I believe it

I don't doubt that

Pregancy is no different to getting parasitic worms. They both live in the body and steal nutrients from the host, they both grow, both of them are either removed by medical intervention or leave naturally and both can be prevented easily (in most cases*) by exercising caution such as washing your hands throughly and often and wearing a condom and using contraceptives. It's not beautiful.
* because rape can cause unwanted pregnancy

Some woman can't survive a pregnancy and some can get very ill because of it

Exactly. My sister in law nearly died during her pregnancy (due to problems surrounding her liver) and went into a coma because of it, they delivered my nephew via c-section. The Doctors have said if she ever gets pregnant again it'll kill her. Yet she wants another baby with her new boyfriend. Stupid girl.

Besides how do you look at it? If the kid isn't going to grow up in a loving household with the resources to care for it can you really say it's such a bad thing to prevent that from happening? And at what point do you consider the fetus "murderable?"

There's a lot of factors to consider.

@peachypersimmon the number of rape abortions is less than 0.5% of the total amount. This would be like saying that a gun owner shoots someone so all gun owners should go to jail for this reason even though it's such a small percentage. @jokur_and_batmon it is possible to have complications during pregnancy, although infrequent as it is. It is the same analogy as the one stated above. Now for the quality of life argument I can only offer one point of view. Imagine you walked into a job interview and before they even saw your resume or looked at you or said anything to you they just walked out and said "sorry, but no". It is not a matter or IF the child will have a good life. It is a matter of the child having a chance to have that life. Just life you would like the chance to succeed at your career. And before anyone says anything about if you think it is fine then why don't you adopt children, I plan on adopting children as soon as I am in a good enough place in my life and my

Girlfriend and I get married. It really comes down to they fact that many many lives are needed for the sole purpose of "me myself and I" mentality and the idea that the child MIGHT not have a good quality of life. Which i my mind is compltely crazy because all life is precious. From human babies to the babies of the mice in my shed to the babies of the deer in the woods. All life is precious and it should be handled that way in this messed up world we have. It is the only way we can continue on and hold our humanity.