It's not shaming, it's about health. The fat acceptance movement is full of people in denial of their condition, they think that being obese is actually just as healthy as being normal weight (and that doctors are all liars)
It’s ok to drink. It’s ok to get drunk. It’s not considered ok to be an alchoholic. The friend that does drigs at parties is not the same as a crack head who will do anything for a fix or the coke head on their 4th heart attack. Most any true professional will tell you that shame is not an effective treatment for alchoholism or substance abuse. That people who have these disorders are often doing so due to negative emotions and self image. That while shame may offer temporary modification of behavior, more than anything it causes people to hide behavior or deny they have a problem- and you can’t treat a problem until you accept that it is a problem. “We” do not “have to take care of them” because we can’t. You can’t control what they eat or what they do. THEY need to take care of themselves, starting with a choice wether they want to or not....
...So in between denial of obesity as a health issue, and shaming the overweight, is a place where we can accept the choices of others, but not necessarily condone them. If “We” want to “take care of them” we have to address the behavioral and social factors that lead to obesity as much as anything else. They need to feel safe to get help. For goodness sakes- do you think these people weighing 400lbs talking about how all of medical science is wrong about their health- do you think they popped up on their own, or do you think we are seeing the defensive response of a person who feels threatened and feels hostility from society? When you make people feel ashamed they tend to get defensive and you can’t help someone who is being defensive anymore than you can have a constructive debate with someone who feels their ego is being attacked.
You can lead a horse to water but you can’t make it drink. Wether we Throw tomatos or roses or just treat them like anyone else when an obese person walks in a room- those that want to change or want help will take it if offered, those who don’t wont- but are adults and the consequences of their decisions are on them even if they impact others. Unless you propose regular weigh ins and locking up anyone who fails in a “fat prison” until they weigh in right- all you can do is offer help. So there’s no purpose to making people feel shitty who often already feel shitty. In fact it can be a cycle of hopeless shitiness that spirals into more and more self loathing and self destructive behavior. It’s case by case so putting one solution to all people with weight issues- or putting a public shame on the person and not the condition- is counter productive. And that’s the point isn’t it? If you want to treat And prevent AIDS make it about the disease and not the person who has the disease.
One thing about the obesity epidemic in America is that there is quite a large amount of governmental disinformation regarding it due to the part of the government responsible for protecting the people's health food wise is the same section that is required to make sure that American food products are being bought. They spent YEARS pushing calories in calories out. Eat less exercise more
The biggest problem is sugar intake. What you eat is far more important that how much you eat and your sugar intake is far more important than any other intake you have. Sugar (that isnt attached to fiber) gets almost instantly turned into far as it goes through your system. The food industry has actively blocked changes to the recommended sugar intake because it would harm their profit margin. Like to the point that when the WHO tried to change it to 10% of your intake they lobbied the us government to threaten to cut funding to the WHO whiched forced them to up it to 25%.
Very (mostly) true. Most systems of industry are broken. The same people who own controlling interests in the industries are the ones responsible for policing them. The GDP is put ahead of the science behind things, and while its true that to help someone tomorrow you must still be here tomorrow- so it’s important for any nation that wants to remain free to self governance to ensure economic strength- there is a hard to define line but we have crossed it certainly. The part about sugars is so so. Any simple carbohydrate is rapidly digested and if those calories aren’t needed, they are stored. It’s a tad oversimplified to point at sugar and to me implies a tone that sugar is somehow worse than any other calorie when it’s not worse per se anymore than Morphine is worse than Tylenol- they’re just chemicals that have certain situations and certain pros and cons that should be considered before administration and dosing.
There is quite a bit of science that says that sugar (or any of the 50 other words for it) is quite a bit worse because added sugar (or 50 bleh bleh) are 8 times more addictive than cocaine. The rate of obesity went up directly correlating to when the food industry was forced to go low fat and fat free. Before sugar because in everything (almost literally) childhood obesity was almost unheard of. Now around 35% of children are obese weight wise and anywhere from 40 to 60% of children are at the same risks as an obese individual health wise. A very large amount of research points to sugar being the number 1 cause of overweight and obese people in the united states.
edit: sugar is worse than other calories because it is processed differently than other calories. When sugar is attached to fiber (like when it is gotten from fresh fruit) it takes longer to digest it and allows for it to get slowly used as it is processed. When sugar is in its free form (99% of sugar or sugar adjacent in our
food) it gets almost instantaneously turned into fat as it hits the liver because of the sheer amount of sugar in the average Americans diet. Saying that other sources of calories are the same or no better than sugar is downplaying how bad sugar is for your health. It is quantifiable worse than other sources of calories.
Your own reply states that sugar is no worse than other calories. Your example of bonded sugar for example. It is not the sugar that is worse for ones health on its own. Now, I’m no big sugar shill. There’s too much sugar and the dietary guidelines are crooked. But- many of the things you state as proof that sugar is the boogie man are misleading. You mentionthat before sugar was used in almost everything that childhood obesity was much lower. However the “sugar push” happened over 40 years ago. The habits, activities, culture, economics of eating and living have changed so much that pinning the blame on sugar alone isn’t a conclusion supported. Processed foods became the norm, portion sizes increased, activity levels decreased drastically as well. Children don’t do the same things and grow up how they did in 1970. The reason I point out the details here is they are important. It is not sugar that is at fault. Companies pushed refined sugars en masse, governments backed it, people...
... swallowed it up. The problem isn’t with sugar it is with the use and treatment of sugar. Some level of sugar has a place in a healthy diet, just like water or iron does, but if you drink 6 gallons of water in a short span you may we’ll die. It’s an important distinction because that is how we got here. You mention low and fat free foods. People without a basic concept of nutrition clamoured for a “healthier” alternative in junk selection. Companies obliged. A whole bag of sugar is in fact- fat free. Because at that time “fat” was the demon even though a small amount of fat and even saturated fats are healthy and required for endocrine function. But “fat” was evil. It caused heart attacks and all kinds of stuff backed by popular science. So they ground it out and made a fat profit doing it, by funneling sugar down our throats. And now sugar is the demon. And in the quest to slay it we would undoubtably make another deal with another worse devil so we can still have cheap,...
.... palatable junk food. Did you know studies indicate cheese and many dairy products are also addictive? Food is chemistry. There aren’t really “bad” chemicals. There aren’t really any chemicals that are harmless. The very air we breath, even “pure” of pollution, causes damage. Life and diet are about balance and wisdom. It’s key that one understands there are no “miracle foods” and there are no truly evil foods. In moderation even radiation is not just fine, but beneficial. So what is of issue isn’t that one should avoid sugar- even refined sugar, but that one should have the knowledge and also be provided full disclosure so that they can be aware of and hopefully choose to only intake permissible amounts.
New guest. My wife is a pharmacist and one key rule they are taught is all drugs are poisons. Have enough of anything and it's bad for you.
Too much food, too much excercise...but never too much funsubstance.
P.s these replyies are fckn long! Be concise, sheesh
Hi guest. I do consulting or contract work on the side of my full time job. I am happy to provide things in “executive bullet point” or “50,000ft” view to anyone who pays for these services. My current rates start at about $200 an hour for contract work. When I am not being paid, I prefer unambiguous communication, because much like a koan, in abscence of context clues, inflection, and the like- and in a wide public internet with people of all ages, from all places and cultures where certain things we take for granted can not be assumed- I try as the character limits allow to communicate clearly in ways that cannot be misconstrued or misinterpreted. It isn’t for everybody sure. But Twitter is only a few keystrokes away if one prefers brevity.
I think it should be treated like an addiction. We always want to help people addicted to drugs or alcohol but if it's food the person is regarded as simply lazy and disgusting. Food can stimulate the same parts of the brain as drugs.
But if we did that then us fat people wouldn't be the societal punchline nearly as much and that's no fun.
I'm not talking about censoring anything. I'd just like to see a change in society's opinion on someone who is overweight. I know it will never happen, I'm not stupid. We will always be the joke. But it would be nice to be a bit more understood. We are not lazy, we are not disgusting, we are not slobs...but people will never see that. We will always be seen as just a gross fatty.
Before anyone says so, not everyone is like that, but by and large society will never see us as real people.
I get you. I'm sorry if you've been treated poorly.
I see a lot of the lazy type due to the nature of my job, but like any segment of society, you've got your good eggs and your bad apples.
Thank you for sharing strongsad. You phrased it very eloquently. Whenever people hear anything about any kind of positivity towards the heavier folks among us they assume one is advocating or endorsing obesity. But there is a human component. @mathewg states the noble intentions of seeing people be healthy and happy, and protecting them and their loved ones, and that is a fine intention. But that’s not how caring works. We can’t say we care enough about people to be concerned for their weight and at the same time care so little for them that we allow a culture that makes them feel less than human. Especially when depression can be a huge cause for weight gain and hurdle to healthy living for many. It’s a fine line between normalizing something and not demonizing it. Tough love is a real tool, but like any tool it doesn’t work in every situation. A hammer doesn’t polish glass, it breaks it. The treatment must fit the patient or else it doesn’t work.
I understand that being fat means you are unhealthy but you never hear anyone telling someone who is skinny to watch their health or get a checkup. Skinny people can be unhealthy as well so we all have to stop acting like its about health and not appearance. So if you want to tell fat people to be healthy you have to do the same with skinny people
The biggest problem is sugar intake. What you eat is far more important that how much you eat and your sugar intake is far more important than any other intake you have. Sugar (that isnt attached to fiber) gets almost instantly turned into far as it goes through your system. The food industry has actively blocked changes to the recommended sugar intake because it would harm their profit margin. Like to the point that when the WHO tried to change it to 10% of your intake they lobbied the us government to threaten to cut funding to the WHO whiched forced them to up it to 25%.
edit: sugar is worse than other calories because it is processed differently than other calories. When sugar is attached to fiber (like when it is gotten from fresh fruit) it takes longer to digest it and allows for it to get slowly used as it is processed. When sugar is in its free form (99% of sugar or sugar adjacent in our
Too much food, too much excercise...but never too much funsubstance.
P.s these replyies are fckn long! Be concise, sheesh
But if we did that then us fat people wouldn't be the societal punchline nearly as much and that's no fun.
Before anyone says so, not everyone is like that, but by and large society will never see us as real people.
I see a lot of the lazy type due to the nature of my job, but like any segment of society, you've got your good eggs and your bad apples.