Not the same but they are connected. You can judge relative opportunity by outcome statistically. For example 20% of politicians in the US are women despite them being 50% of the population. If opportunity were completely equal we should see it closer to the population distribution. But opportunity is multi-faceted. Are women 5x as likely to avoid politics or is it 5x harder for them to win? Is it an equal opportunity (as a hypothetical) if girls are told in early life that they aren’t as qualified as the boys to be politicians?
Could anyone help me understand why there is so much passion (or even aggression) attached to the idea that a social construct is limiting female representation in congress?
Why do women dominate (in terms of numbers) the healthcare industry?
Are men more likely to avoid healthcare or is it harder for them to win? Is it an equal opportunity (as a hypothetical) if boys are told in early life that they aren’t as qualified as the girls to be in the healthcare industry?
I'm white, male, and worked my way into the upper middle class.
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When people talk about unequal outcomes (like equal representation in politics) i constantly get the impression that they believe it's somehow my fault and that they are even angry at me for it. I don't understand why.
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On a related note, are they sure that forcing equal gender representation for congress is a good idea?
Women don’t dominate the healthcare industry. They dominate the nursing field. Doctors are now pretty equally divided which could indicate a shift towards how young women perceive their potential role.
@princessmonstertru I am in the same situation. It took me a while to understand that people are angry that people like us are in the majority when it comes to success but they aren’t really angry with the individuals. A lot of times things we feel are being communicated to us are actually them talking to each other. (a la #BlackLivesMatter) Also, no one is suggesting enforcing gender equality in Congress, merely stating what you can extrapolate about opportunity from the current ratios.
I agree. I think that’s trying to steer a boat by the wake at that point but it doesn’t mean we can analyze why the disparity exists. If we find causality and it’s something we can change culturally then the shift will be organic over time. Note: I think this is actually happening. There has been a lot of effort recently to get girls into STEM subjects more heavily at the elementary school level which should produce more female representation in those professions a couple of decades from now.
I agree that the stigma is indeed part of why there are more men in politics. My beef is that there seems be a belief that this stigma is actively promoted by men. That there are somehow secret meetings where powerful men get together and talk about ways to keep women and minorities out of powerful positions. To me, that would be absurd.
Lol. I put it in the Facebook group, I’m surprised you missed the invite! But in all seriousness- I understand what you’re saying- you feel like you’re being blamed for a problem by association. It’s a tad more complex and we have to analyze it (but to be fair a MINORITY of) people do blame all of a group for their issues- but usually that isn’t the case.
Now, as I speak- please remember that right now we are only talking about HISTORY, not the present. Don’t outrun the narrative in your mind by trying to extrapolate into the present. Historically it’s impossible to argue certain groups didn’t have privilege. Usually men, often white men. Because of this privilege they were able to give more to their children usually- making. Their children generally at an advantage to children of others. They were able to make the rules, and tended to make sure the rules favored them and thus later those like them.
We are back in the present now. What you were born with, the way the world works- you didn’t do that. It is designed to fit some people better, easier, but that’s not on you. You just appeared and that how things are. What you have- you likely did some work for. Being white or a man or etc alone generally will not get a degree or let you learn a skill. It doesn’t guarantee a job or a career or smart finances. You had to put in some work for that.
BUT- some part of who you are, your values, outlook, world view, the skills you were able to learn and the opportunities afforded you were dictated by your birth and the history of your lineage and the world. Kids who’s parents parents didn’t have opportunity in something like politics or business etc- their grandparents couldn’t teach their parents things they didn’t know and weren’t allowed to be part of, their parents had to learn what they could and likely didn’t go as far as if they’d had generations of opportunity and ability to pass knowledge, connections, life skills for “mainstream” society.
Think of it this way- kids today are better at games on average than kids in the 70’s. They not only have more opportunity to play games, but to use computers and develop things like hand eye, recognizing game mechanics and common design themes. What’s a power up, what can you interact with etc. When people are pushed out of mainstream society they don’t learn these things- when they enter mainstream society it’s like a person who’s been trained playing monopoly entering a call of duty tournament. The kids who have been playing FPS games and COD for 10+ years have loads of advantage. They put in work to get good- but the other kid didn’t have the shot to.
That isn’t your fault- but you’d likely be upset too if you had to work harder just to get the same thing as someone else. It’s not that men meet up and try to hold back women- it’s that women were held back and men benefit from that. The anger comes from 2 places mainly. The first is frustration that I think we could all relate to if we felt we were being treated unfairly and that we didn’t get an even shot. The second...
Is kinda directed at SOME men. See- we may not be responsible for how the world was when we were born- but we are responsible for how the world is shaped from there out. Naturally most people will think of themselves. When we look at politics or whatever else- we tend to frame issues by how they effect us. What benefit or harm do they do US?
The same applies for the ultra wealthy. There generally is no great conspiracy by the worlds elite despite popular claims. Rich people do things that benefit them. What benefits one rich person often benefits other rich people. Rich people will therefore often seem to work together doing things that make them richer and keep others poorer. That isn’t the case. For them to get richer- someone has to get poorer. Every pair of Nike or every CD or burger you buy takes money from you and gives it to a rich person- who then chips some off to pay costs- but never so much that they’d stop being rich. If we are all rich- no one is rich after all- that’s how economics based on supply and demand work.
So men who aren’t working together, might often do things that they don’t intend or necessarily think about how they effect this person or that. They are simply trying to live their life and get the most benefit. But the world is a snow globe. Sealed. We can move things around but we can’t create something from nothing. That means that the gain of one will always cost something. Not everyone on earth can live the way the top percentage of people do because the top 1% of the world uses more than half the worlds resources. 50% x 99= not enough earth to go around.
Traditionally the exclusion of others was in fact largely motivated by this fact. The more competition there is for something you want, the less likely you’ll get it and the more work that will take. If you can exclude a large percentage of people from competing- it becomes easier to get what you want from life. If you have to pay $15 hr and use proper protection and have insurance and blah blah for every worker who touches it- your car or computer or whatever else becomes very expensive. Looking only at YOUR gain most people with $20k to spend on a car would rather have a Mercedes built by slaves than a Yugo built by well fed happy workers. You get less tangible benefit for your investment.
So women and other groups who were born into a world where they face challenges others do not, challenges that aren’t from nature but from society, can get upset. Society is under our control. It is us. We can change the rules so people don’t fave those challenges anymore. But there are people who actively are against such things, and others who work against them in ignorance because they just don’t care. Then there are allies who actively help break down barriers.
Tl:dr- you didn’t choose how to be born anymore than a French citizen chose to be occupied by the Nazis during the war. Some French just went about their lives and tried not to care or notice. Some decided to “make the best” of the occupation and help the Nazis, join them, work for them. Others resisted. They actively fought or they passively refused to suckle from the teat of a machine of injustice.
As a French Citizen who didn’t choose the system but you still can see. You are aware what is going on and you can see that this system is treating your fellow humans like shit even if it’s being not great for you- you aren’t in a cattle car so it’s still better for you. When those people see you walk by with your head down they know the system isn’t your fault- but they also know that it’s your choice to say “better him than me...” and keep walking. The collaborators didn’t bring the Nazis, but the French were still plenty upset with them for taking that side for their own benefit.
Those are really vague statements that in reality don't say anything. Promote equality how? Because this can go many ways. Scientific advancement in which fields? Some people would say disciplines like psychology or sociology don't deserve the funding necessary for their advancement.
There's a difference between holding certain views but not wanting to be associated with parties or "sides" due to their tendency to get kind of tribalistic, and refusing to be pinned down to any position whatsoever. It's not a virtue if your views are this vague.
Equality of opportunity?
Or equality of outcome?
Because they are not the same thing
Are men more likely to avoid healthcare or is it harder for them to win? Is it an equal opportunity (as a hypothetical) if boys are told in early life that they aren’t as qualified as the girls to be in the healthcare industry?
.
When people talk about unequal outcomes (like equal representation in politics) i constantly get the impression that they believe it's somehow my fault and that they are even angry at me for it. I don't understand why.
.
On a related note, are they sure that forcing equal gender representation for congress is a good idea?
@princessmonstertru I am in the same situation. It took me a while to understand that people are angry that people like us are in the majority when it comes to success but they aren’t really angry with the individuals. A lot of times things we feel are being communicated to us are actually them talking to each other. (a la #BlackLivesMatter) Also, no one is suggesting enforcing gender equality in Congress, merely stating what you can extrapolate about opportunity from the current ratios.
There's a difference between holding certain views but not wanting to be associated with parties or "sides" due to their tendency to get kind of tribalistic, and refusing to be pinned down to any position whatsoever. It's not a virtue if your views are this vague.