You don’t ride single file for several reasons. Bicycles or motorcycles, you generally don’t want to ride in a line as it makes it more likely that if one person crashes, the rest will too, and it makes it harder to avoid a sudden accident. There is also visibility- even motorcycles often aren’t seen by cars- much bigger and louder than bicycles. In a spread group, bicycles or motorcycles are easier to see. It’s safer for them.
It’s also safer for similar reasons you see in the video- when people do things like that- but on accident. In most states, cars and cycles aren’t allowed to split lanes, or in Starr’s they are- almost ALWAYS, cycles can choose to share a lane with cars- but cars can’t go into a lane with cycles. It’s not safe for the cyclist- but cars often disregard such rules as well as rules which specify how far cars are to keep from cycles.
You’d think- but no. The problem is the same problem- except actually worse. If you have 10 cyclists in a line with each 10ft apart- the mass of any 12ft section of road for a driver to see is still 1 cyclist- which drivers miss all the time because of their small size etc. you don’t get the same visual mass that is easier to notice as you do with a staggered formation. It’s also harder to maintain a formation in a straight line- which is why from animals to airplanes- where staggered formations are possible, they are often used except where the desired effect is a smaller cross section- the opposite of what is prudent for cyclists in every way.
It’s also even MORE upsetting to drivers as instead of having to wait a few miles and having maybe a half mile to safely pass a group of 10 cyclists occupying 12-20 ft of road- you now must wait until you have enough lane to safely pass 10 cyclists occupying 120-200ft of road.
It’s also less safe for the cyclists and motorcycle and bicycle safety classes will teach you not to do exactly what you are describing- some cyclists are real ass holes who don’t follow the rules. But most car drivers are ass holes- if you haven’t already noticed- ride a motorcycle for a year every day to work and play. If you leave a space, even if they legally shouldn’t, even if they safely shouldn’t- some car WILL take it. That’s very unsafe for everyone involved- assuming the person in the car isn’t a sociopath who is fine killing other humans with a 3,000lb murder weapon for the crime of annoying them.
When traveling in a group of two wheeled road vehicles, you want to leave enough space for you and who you are traveling with to maneuver safely and have an “out” of something bad suddenly happens. If you do what you are supposed to- you are constantly watching and being mindful of these things. Cars should do this too- but as a Race and driving instructor for many years... well.... it’s scary that some people can drive- and they are people that the majority of folks would t think we’re doing anything wrong since they didn’t do anything that person wouldn’t do. There’s a reason we have cars that can brake by themselves and it isn’t just for the elderly and handicapped. Think about that and the level of self awareness that went into not just reverse parking sensors- but the market demand for FORWARD sensors. You know- forward. The side of the car with the big glass that if you’re driving you should be able to look out and asses where you are in relation to the world?
And that’s kinda the point. In a car- especially a modern car- most accidents- you’re safe. If the car doesn’t warn you of a thing you missed, stop you from a mistake, or just do something for you so that you don’t have to worry- it’s a giant steel cage designed to take insane punishment, laced with legally required air bags on all sides of you- with more being added all the time. The average 20mph crash isn’t a big deal to someone in a relatively modern car.
Get on a motorcycle. Spend $2,6 or more thousand dollars on good gear- and an accident will almost always do more harm to you than what would happen in a car. Far more. If you don’t happen to have the most sturdy and cutting edge gear money can buy- even a low speed crash on a motorcycle can kill or injure you badly. Google what happens to a motorcyclist in a low speed crash who isn’t wearing gear.
You underestimate what I mean by farther apart. Also I'm not applying motorcycle rules to bicycle rules, no one rides a bicycle 65 miles an hour. I"m not worried about the people in the cars, I'm saying the bicyclists need to make things safe for themselves. No one in a car is worried about dying from hitting a bicyclist
Ok. No realize that a road bike can reach speeds of 20mph or more, and E-bikes are making that easier to achieve for all sorts of folks. Then add up that a motorcyclist in full gear needs to stay hydrated and gets fatigued. There’s a reason you don’t see bikers commonly wearing full leathers and motorcycle helmets- you’d probably die from heat stroke on any nice day riding a few miles. What do bicyclists wear? Asides a helmet- an open face helmet (motor cycle safety will teach you those aren’t advised..) little else for protection. MTB riders who rode rough can sometimes be seen in a “motocross” like helmet with a chin protector.
Alright, you don't seem to get what happened in the gif. Bicycles are slow. Cars are fast. Motorcycles are fast. I'm not saying cars never pass motorcycles. I'm not saying motorcycles never pass cars. Or that they never drive slow. I'm saying if you're on a bicycle, every, single, car, or motorcycle, on the road, is going to be passing around you. Make it easy for them and you make it easy for yourself
I'm not saying it's ok for the car to have hit the bicyclist. I'm saying that regardless of what happened here or ever, it would be better for bicyclists to do whatever is possible to make it easy for other people to avoid them.
So I suggest- not to you- but I suggest this to anyone- that one be aware not just f their own vehicle and how to operate it- but challenges and such if other common vehicles on the road. One might ask how that should be THEIR problem. Well- if you hit a bike in your car you’ll probably e fine- they may be messed up or dead. Being honest- most people don’t actually care that much. Given the choice they would rather hit a biker than drive off a cliff or into a truck if they had only those choices.
THAT is why you should care. Because you can flatten that biker- but an 18 wheeler can flatten you. So what if that driver just didn’t give a shit about you? WhT if you weren’t aware of the Reno radius of that big truck and got crushed trying to pass it in a turn on the inside? It’s good to know what else is on the road and how to be safe- for other people but also for us and our families.
But ultimately- just like most likely, most people- the cyclist cares about THEIR safety and is responsible for it. So wen if you don’t know why 2 wheeled or 18 wheeled or whatever vehicles do something- they usually know- and usually it is for safety. With cyclists- riding in formation is for safety and a form of “defensive driving.” For all the reasons listed- which can be summed up as most non 2 wheeled drivers don’t know and or don’t care about 2 wheeled travelers safety- or anywhere near as much as their own, or even their haste-
This is why 2 wheeled vehicles travel as they do and why it is CRITICAL when on 2 wheels that you do everything you can to make sure that you “occupy your whole lane.” If you do not- someone WILL eventually get the bright idea to lane split you- and if their mirror clips you, if the guy in the wheeled couch who needs sensors to tell him where he is and where everything else is... somehow is mistaken in his judgment of distance... the cyclist dies. In time of peace I can’t recall ever needing to be somewhere bad enough that it was worth killing an innocent person to make it happen.
Also worth mentioning- 2 wheeled vehicles are light- generally lighter than anything else on the road. This and their size gives illusions of dexterity- but when you panic brake on 2 wheels or swerve- there are different physics at play. You only have 2 tires to maintain grip to the road, weight transfer and inertia act to make quick stopping a juggling act between flipping over the handle bars or having the rear wheel lock and slide, causing you to go down and takin any hope besides much of avoiding a crash- and possibly sliding into a solid object and taking force trauma on impact. A 30mph collision is more force than falling off a 2 story building. If you slide into a post at 30mph- that’s real close to the same thing- and chances are when horizontal you won’t be able to land on your feet and roll like falling onto ground.
So there’s some of the physics and strategy behind it. Putting bicycles on sidewalks mostly takes cars from the equation- but now pedestrians have metal flying at them- and a cyclist will still get as hurt hitting the ground or a wall on a side walk- not to mention there is MORE danger as anything can happen suddenly on a side walk from car doors opening to people coming out of shops and so on- and pedestrians generally don’t follow rules (as bad as drivers are- they are held to higher standards than someone walking down a street) so sidewalks are chaos without ability to even try to predict what a person “should” do “by the book” as there isn’t a rule book for sidewalks like there is for streets. No license required to walk.
And lastly- you have the scourge of 2 wheeled safety- the drive way. These are very dangerous spaces on 2 wheels. Most folks in cars have had near misses where someone was pulling out of a shop or home, or accidents at these places. Well... if you’re pulling out of a driveway you’re looking for cars, pedestrians. If you don’t see a pedestrian for x hundred feet, the odds are minuscule one will appear... but a bike can cover farther than you likely looked or could see- faster, and suddenly that clear driveway has a bike in it as you pull out. It isn’t a law most places that those on the sidewalk stop for driveways- but cars at driveways must stop for those on the sidewalk- wether you can see them or not- that’s called a fuck up when a car hits someone on a driveway- and the fuck up is the cars fault for not noticing. Thems the rules.
So putting bikes on sidewalks doesn’t solve many problems save for impatience- but it creates problems. Safety problems. Many of which don’t exist when bikes aren’t on sidewalks. Bike lanes are good. Better is separate bike trails or elevated bikeways above the road. Those cost money and take time to construct however. So next to some costly and actually worse for all options- the best solution is to just be patient and not hit bikers.
Next best option for those who don’t want to deal with biker frustrations in a car? Get a bike. Now you’re going the same speed- most folks likely slower until they get used to it for awhile- and no one is in your way. Still too many bikes on the road for ones taste? Walk. You’ll get your own sidewalk and not have to deal with bikers nearly as much- and I can almost guarantee a biker won’t slow you down if you’re walking.
I'm not the person that downvoted you, but I hope you have the social skills enough to realize why someone would, although the fact that you're still doing this indicates that you do not, not trying to be rude
And I really mean that I'm not trying to be rude, but it's difficult when someone is being rude to tell them they're being rude in a way that doesn't seem, well, rude
Sorry nicengelman- not personal. I always finish my posts then go back and read replies. It’s uncommon but sometimes happens that people are as fast to reply as you. I didn’t mean to speak over you or burry you. I was not replying to you- just finishing the original replies. I didn’t know you had replied at all until I saw the notification and went back and read through. So...
@nicengelman- the comment on hydration was to explain why bicyclists can’t wear the level of safety gear a motor cycle rider wears. The point there being that a motor cycle crash in heavy gear is dangerous at 20-30mph, bicyclists can have crashes at those speeds and wear almost no protection.
To your comment about making it easy for people to avoid them- the BIGGEST danger isn’t people avoiding them. It is people NOT SEEING THEM or having poor skills and making misjudgments in trying to avoid them. You should not have to avoid a bicycle unless something has gone very wrong. To avoid a bicycle is already extremely easy. Step 1. See the cyclist. Step 2. Stay behind them a safe distance. The steps to avoid cyclists when passing is as follows: 1. See them. 2. When it is safe to do so, pass in a safe and courteous manner.
It doesn’t matter where a cyclist is in a lane. If there is enough room in a lane next to another car- it is both illegal and something most people would recognize as unsafe- to try and fit you car into that lane as well. Because people somehow can’t grasp this- cycles need to “remind” cars of the fact and take up as much lane as possible. Most states allow cycles to use any part of the lane- and encourage cyclists to choose the most defensive position in a lane, and change often so that cars see them moving and realize they are using the entire lane.
A cycle gets a whole lane- like a slow car. You don’t need to do anything special to avoid a cyclists except to stay out of their lane until you have passed in a legal passing zone in a safe manner and have made sure that you are far enough ahead when you get back into the lane. If you cannot safety pass a cyclist this way- the same as a car- you cannot safely pass and you avoid them by not passing.
I do not state opinions. I state facts. Laws and what you will find in government and private literature on 2 wheeled vehicle safety- based on decades of public and private studies and data.
I don't agree with the car hitting the rider, but, I've encountered multiple bicycles who believe they should own the road and cars behind them should slow down to their speed. It's obvious that stretch is meant for quick travel. It's not a bicycle route.
Well unless there is specific signage that a road is closed to bicycles (like an interstate in most cities), bicycles are considered vehicles and can ride on the road, regardless of the speed limit. As someone who regularly cycles on the open road, I encounter far more cars who think that roads are only meant for them and no one else, and consistently put other road users in danger, included other cars. I agree that some roads clearly aren't as safe as other for riding, but that doesn't mean you can automatically kick out all cyclists
also a misconception about the building of roads is that they were meant for cars. Original paved roads were largely adopted to make cycling easier (instead of riding on cobblestones or carriage tracks) when it was first popularized in the late 1800s/early 1900s before cars existed.
First- very important. Many cyclists are ass holes. They don’t follow rules or aren’t considerate. Second- even the ones that aren’t assholes can be annoying to get stuck behind or have to deal with. Ok. That said:
There is a subtle irony to the often touted “cyclists think they own the road!” When it is coming from a person driving a car, who believes that cyclists should go out of their way to make driving a car easier and more pleasant- and in this very thread myself and others have had to point out how some of these “rude” behaviors are literally necessary or the safest way to ride- and often are literally the law.
A good cyclists doesn’t own the road- they “own” their lane though. And they SHOULD. they are supposed to for safety, and generally by law. If you were driving a long and an 18 wheeler going twice or more your speed decided it was ok to share your lane for a little while- you probably wouldn’t feel very safe. You aren’t supposed to share lanes with bikes- they can share with you- you cannot share with them (varies by law but generally the case and always the safest next to arguably no lane sharing at all- but statistics say no lane sharing is less safe than to allow it.)
If you’re stuck behind a truck, or a car- or a bike- you’re stuck. Call a state trooper or hope for a cop- if the person is doing wrong- they can get a ticket. If what they are doing is legal- well.... you have to share the road. You don’t own the road. You aren’t the only one trying to use it. Bicycles can and should try to minimize their impact on traffic and maximize their own safety- even when that means not doing what they legally can because it may be unsafe.
Riding on a busy local main road where people often speed- for everyone’s sake should be avoided as practical if there aren’t bike lanes. But- just like there is a reason cars use that road- often bikes don’t have a choice. It may be the only road, or the only other option may add large time and distance. What’s more- getting hit on a bike on a popular road gives you a better chance someone might call for help vs. some lonely back road where you may be found dead days or even months later.
But if people are annoyed with cyclists- they don’t need to take it out in the cyclists. Take it to local and state government. They make the rules of the road. They design roads. They approve projects. Advocate for the creation of infrastructure to support cyclists that serves as god or better to their purposes than main roads. Advocate local law enforcement do their jobs and police local cyclists if they are out of hand. Take videos of offenders, go to the local news. But cyclists are just getting from A to B like anyone else and have every right to be there. Many times even where cycle paths exist- it isn’t safe or practical for speed riders and commuters to use them. So advocate for more and better cycling infrastructure- or just realize that you, and cars, aren’t the only thing on the road and you have to share.
When the first car went by, why didn’t the cyclist move over? You know, to make it easier for the 4 wheeled death machines to get around without knocking him. I mean. It’s a possibility that the person behind a giant pickup didn’t even see the bicycle on the road.
Still shitty to keep going though.
he's fully within his lane and the cyclist with the camera is far enough ahead that even if the one that got hit wasnt there the car is still breaking the law by coming back into the lane at that close to the cyclist, not to mention the fact that both the car and the truck are breaking the law by passing at all as they are in a double line zone.
I mean. It really doesn’t matter who was in the right. If it did, guy wouldn’t have been on the ground. The car can kill a cyclist, not the other way around. Self preservation and common sense would make someone steer clear of the speeding cars. The world sucks, brakes fail, people are crap. Move over.
This was my basic point. If you get killed by a person improperly operating a vehicle, will they get in trouble? Sure. Will that bring you back to life? Nope
You do NOT get over when being passed because as you saw in the video- can’t often will “clip” into a lane before fully clearing what is in that lane. If you move over, you risk moving into their blind spot as well- then they don’t see you- assume they are clear, and collide with you. “Slowing down” is a counter people use- try it. Have a fried in a car half in your lane suddenly swerve into you from a few feet in front of you at 15-20mph cycling speed and see how it goes.
It isn’t safe. And really- why would you have to? Think about that a moment. A car takes an entire lane right? Most of it anyway- a very small car like an old MG might take half. Most effectively take the lane. So- in your car- do you usually move over when someone is passing you? Why would you? To be able to safely pass they need to e IN FRONT of you- not NEXT to you. When you see a vehicle, 2,4,6 wheels or whatever number, and it is in a traffic lane- that lane for the length of their vehicle and several car lengths ahead and behind- is occupied. It is an invisible wall you should not pass just as if it were as solid and big as a city bus.
And it is true- being right and dead isn’t a good look. If you can- you should avoid accidents even when you have the “right of way.” The problem is- often you can’t really avoid it. The cyclist in the video did what they were supposed to do. Maybe someone with quicker reflexes could have avoided it- but reflexes are different for everyone. Thats why we have laws for the road instead of saying “use your common sense and reflexes...” and everyone can have a bad day- even pro drivers make mistakes. The car broke just about every rule of safe passing there is because they were annoyed.
If the cyclist slowed down- well... isn’t that what started all this? They were too slow? But they run the risk of being rear ended if they suddenly reduce speed, or losing control (2 wheeled vehicles behave differently under braking.) if they move over- we covered that. They can’t speed up, and moving left isn’t a valid option. The car was a prick because wherever they needed to be slightly faster was worth more to them than a human life.
How would moving over onto the side of the road enter you into their blind spot? I mean. I guess it could, but seeing as someone aiming to pass isn’t going to go onto the shoulder (unless they were doing so with the explicit intention to hit you) it wouldn’t matter. Get out of their way, let them take up as much of the road as they want, at least then you can have your life.
A car and a bicycle are not the same thing. Plus, If someone is risking hitting you with their car by moving over into your lane, most people would pull over into the shoulder if possible even if they are in a car. Then they move out when it’s safe. You know, self preservation and all that. If you are in danger, the laws of the road can be broken for a second.
You can argue with me all you like. I’m not speaking my opinion- I’m speaking fact. The sort of fact found in drivers handbooks and taught in safety courses by experts with decades of experience and data backing it up.
Here’s an excerpt from “cyclesavy.org”
“Lane Control is Defensive Driving
The 5 most common crashes involving law-abiding bicyclists on the roadway can be avoided by the bicyclist riding farther left. These crashes are caused by motorist error, and would legally be the fault of the motorist regardless of where on the road the bicyclist was positioned.”
Please feel free to check your local DMV handbook or other reference material and then get back to me on explaining how you are correct and basically every leading authority and expert including the people who design roads and make road safety policy has this mixed up.
In all seriousness- I would ask you and others to do some research on the topic. Like many things- what seems intuitively correct, even to intelligent people, is often not correct. The FACT is that it is a safety and usually a legal protection for bicycles to occupy the full lane. There are lots of diagrams and explanations of the specifics you can find online- but yes. It is the safest thing to do. Yes, moving over to the right is dangerous for a narrow vehicle and you an easily find yourself in a blind spot as many drivers fail to see cyclists right in front of them or next to them even when not in a blind spot.
In the road- cars tend to look for cars. If a driver doesn’t see the tell tale signs a vehicle is there- a car sized vehicle- they often assume there isn’t. Most people who drive small cars can tel you many stories of drivers regularly not seeing them- in a car. Bikes are smaller than cars. It’s not complicated. Google it then cite to me the source of authority which says it is safest for a bicycle to diminish its presence in traffic.
Indeed. Many people, including one of the worlds preeminent mathematicians refused to believe the solution given for the Monty Hall problem- even when given mathematical proofs to demonstrate it. In the late 90’s a computer simulation finally validated the counter intuitive, but correct, answer. The fact that emotionally people are inclined to believe a certain thing, the fact that truth contradicts our logic- it isn’t something to be ashamed of or to dig in on to avoid being “wrong.” Education only works when we can accept new facts. This is a new fact for many people.
Still shitty to keep going though.
A car and a bicycle are not the same thing. Plus, If someone is risking hitting you with their car by moving over into your lane, most people would pull over into the shoulder if possible even if they are in a car. Then they move out when it’s safe. You know, self preservation and all that. If you are in danger, the laws of the road can be broken for a second.
“Lane Control is Defensive Driving
The 5 most common crashes involving law-abiding bicyclists on the roadway can be avoided by the bicyclist riding farther left. These crashes are caused by motorist error, and would legally be the fault of the motorist regardless of where on the road the bicyclist was positioned.”