no but the wall is meant to stop illegals if you are coming over on a commercial flight that means your legal and the wall wouldnt have made a difference anyways.
@trashmanrevenge dude... the vast majority of people aren't literally crossing the desert to get into the US.... maybe .001% get in that way. The rest either get in by truck, boat or plane.
Illegal immigration from Mexico has been dropping for almost a decade. In fact with improvements that have occurred there many illegal immigrants have returned to Mexico because they can have a better life there as legal than here. Now days the "unauthorized immigrant" population is no longer a majority from Mexico, instead they are from the Asian or European continents and other places overseas. It would be hard to build a wall along the entire US territorial border, maybe instead we should build a giant moat between the Americas and the rest of the wor- oh yeah! Oops. We kinda already have one huh?... maybe a moat wouldn't help either.... it's almost as if these solutions are somehow designed to make people feel better without doing actual good..... like if you examine it it's actually insulting to everyone.
chill i say one thing and i get my anus ripped in half by like 5 people. Im just saying the wall is meant to prevent the guys crossing on foot which is actually a lot more than you would think in fact the info is nearly impossible to find because they are infact undocumented. Only 40-45 percent come legally and over stay as according to this source here. http://www.pewhispanic.org/2006/05/22/modes-of-entry-for-the-unauthorized-migrant-population/
and they even say that could be 10 percent less as other sources have found it that way. That still leaves 55-60 percent. In fact none of us can prove how many of each group cross because they are all undocumented in fact Ramos a democrat who appeared on Bill Riley said that 40 percent of immigrants come on plane http://www.politifact.com/punditfact/statements/2015/sep/08/jorge-ramos/ramos-40-undocumented-immigrants-come-air/ This site here said it could be that or higher or it could very well easily be much much lower. So i completely doubt
55 percent come by plain and that less then 0.01 percent come by desert. I know because 3 of my friends are illegal all came by desert and they have many friends who came by desert too.
We can be pretty accurate when we talk about people who came here on a visa and then overstayed. There are records of them coming in to the country and no records of them leaving. But everyone likes to focus on where the data gets thin. As you said we can't be accurate as to who is illegally crossing the land border because there is no reliable way to document them. So it's a wall, that may or may not solve a problem. A problem which we can't get reliable data if it is even a problem or a problem worth the cost of a giant wall(fence), a problem which many don't even think is a problem that may or may not exist maybe or maybe not being fixed by a wall? We want to gamble a bunch of money on a questionable solution to a possibly imaginary problem and for what reason? Because its illegal? How many people cross the street illegally (jwalk) should every sidewalk in America have walls until the cross walks?
The funny thing is to cut off illegal immigration you simply cut off the jobs something which no employer wants to do. Someone has to work the fields in california and white people wont do it. They know where the illegals are and how many there is they just dont want to kick them all out because they are a large part of agriculture. The main solution would be closing off the borders till we have an easier and better road to citizenship. Legal immigration is the only immigration that should be happening and the legal immigration would take away most of the illegal workers. The main issue is you have Farmers and main agriculture people who want to be able to pay dirt cheap prices to illegals to keep them working you would have to force them to pay the minimum wage though and at 15 dollars an hour that is impossible for most farmers. So unless we have a policy change and a wage change it is impossible to make a move currently. I am simply just correcting the facts that they listed.
Did you compare though jae walking to immigration policy? Jae walking is just a cop out so if some retard gets hit by a car its their own fault for crossing middle of the road. Border policy is different and if it helps keeps criminal illegals out cool if it prevents illegal narcotics from getting over cool. My biggest issue is drug running that is nearly impossible to do by plane. On the ground however it is a large part of the crossing especially on foot. Cartels take advantage of people seeking a better life and force them to cross with narcotics in order to pay for the coyote they send or the supplies to get across safely. I do believe a wall in areas that we do not already have walls at would in fact help us many people forget he also plans to employ up to 5000 more border guards something i agree with and am quite ecstatic over.
Facts first. The CIA and government started the major drug trade (and likely still facilitate a percentage) from South America. For jobs, it isn't that Americans won't do those jobs, it's that to be within code and pay minimum wage or better Americans would ask would drive up the cost of agriculture substantially, like $10-20lb strawberries you'd be paying for. The ripple means the dollar menu becomes the $5 menu as that lettuce goes up in price. Much produce is sourced from South America as is, so basically you're talking about killing the American agriculture sector and outsourcing food production. Next- illegal drugs are worth money because people have an appetite. If people didn't consume hundreds of tons of narcotics a year there'd be no market. America wants drugs and cheap produce. Many states are legalizing weed. Is it worth avoiding taxes or maybe paying less for a felony charge for Mexican smuggled weed when you can buy it at the store? Meth, MDMA, heroine, bathsalts, these
Aren't coming through Mexico. Many are home grown. There's also a Canadian border for much of this. Sex slaves and workers from Eastern Europe, Asia, etc are coming through the ports with contraband. Look into it. Big ports do millions of containers and very few are ever even checked. Interstate trucking is the arteries this "contraband" is mostly transported through and is likewise inadequately checked. A great deal of contraband comes via ocean such as the gulf. Florida is one big POI pointed at Mexico. Can these guards and fence cover that? Hundreds of billions at stake, military grade telecommunications, subs, blisters on boat hulls, drones, tunnels, and a wall and a few thousand public employees sweating in the heat against those profits? What could go wrong.
And yes I compared it to jay walking. It's an imaginary line we decided couldn't be crossed because of possible safety hazzards. I can't think of a better comparison. Google people got by cars in your area while jay walking then google people hit by Mexican cartels in your area and compare the two results. Do it for Miami or Texas. Check the probability of someone being killed or injured by border related causes versus any other cause and see where it ranks even in a few high traffic areas. If you lost a job as a gardener, janitor, or fruit picker because of illegal immigration I am sorry. Now look at American jobs lost in the $30-150k range and tall me how many were lost to Mexico and how many were lost to the Philippines, India, China, etc? Your upset because things are hard for a lot of folks and looking for an easy out.
you assume a lot of things but bring no sources i expect sources in your next message instead of telling me to look into it. https://help.cbp.gov/app/answers/detail/a_id/201/~/statistics---drug-seizures these are not homegrown and these are only the drugs seized not smuggled through successfully. This is in only 1 year btw. How would they check if females are coming over with and to deny the affect of more walls and border patrol agents on this flow of drugs seems ignorant. To say there are other ways is true but what are the statistical use on these. Like I said they cant afford to pay the employees the same amount they want dirt cheap labor which would if taken away increase the cost of these but a wall would have no affect on produce flowing into the country from the outside countries.
no we are looking for a solution for an ongoing problem borders are setup because it is unfair that illegal immigrants do not pay their fair share of taxes but receive the benefits of our economy. In fact if you go to a simple highschool you will see many latino immigrants who are illegal and receive benefits` and foods that were paid for by americans. Not immaginary it was fairly aquired by purchase and even after a war americans paid the mexican people for the portions of land that we received from that war. It is unfair for these people to come in and recieve benefits and take advantage of a system that is great in many ways without paying back into it. Please stop asking me to do research on your part and give me the sources.
The cost of the wall plus the cost of maintaining the wall would probably be higher than the cost of illegals but k
Also there's an Adam ruins everything on this tat I recommend you watch
actually carne this article says that only 5 percent of illegal immigrant make up the prison population in that small number though according to www.nytimes.com/2013/.../citys-annual-cost-per-inmate-is-nearly-168000-study-says.ht... it cost on average $31,286 New york actually costing the most at 60,000 if the average is applied to that 5 percent. it would cost 3,473,215,290 this is an annual cost. It would cost 12-15 billion dollars to build trumps wall according to https://www.cnbc.com/2015/10/09/this-is-what-trumps-border-wall-could-cost-us.html this is a 1 time purchase where as this incarceration cost in yearly. if we assume that only 1/4 illegal immigrants will attend school out of the 11 million which is the lowest estimate currentlyit would cost 34 billion and 747 million dollars. https://amac.us/illegal-immigration-cost-1/
I would be quoted with saying their fair share which you cannot say when your own source says only 3.4 million of 11 pay taxes. this means that the other 7.6 million do not pay their taxes and while i am of course disappointed in other americans for not paying it the rate of illegal immigrants are much higher than the rate of legal americans because as you can see more than half are not paying their taxes.
So, this next one shows that at least until 2009 most foreign seized drug traffic came overland, heroine, meth, and coke coming through Mexico. BUT here's where it's relevant to my point. The report also says that most of the traffic isn't coming through the desert, most is coming through commercial truck routes and other authorized border crossings. It also states that the transport routes are and have been changing as other routes are being cut off.
https://www.justice.gov/archive/ndic/pubs38/38661/movement.htm
The US has and will continue to demand drugs, and people will supply drugs as we can see by just the seizures the potential profits in supplying the US drug appetite. The only way any contraband gets from the port or the border to the customer is over US soil. Our ports and roadways are the weak links. People cross the north/South Korean border and it's the most heavily guarded border in the world. Mines, mini guns, soldiers, 24/7 surveillance and less area to watch.
Mexican DTOs dominate the transportation of illicit drugs across the Southwest Border. They typically use commercial trucks and private and rental vehicles to smuggle cocaine, marijuana, methamphetamine, and heroin through the 25 land POEs as well as through vast areas of desert and mountainous terrain between POEs. the key phrase being through vast areas of dessert and mountainous terrain. from your source btw. now would you not think the extra 5000 border agents would be able to search more trucks in the large amount going through and have better chances of being stopped and their drugs taken and would not more wall prevent these crossings through the desert and the mountains if placed in areas with no wall which would probably classify as a POE.
Illegals are- illegal. They don't have to pay at all and risk raising self danger by doing so but almost half still do. I can't speculate but I do wonder how many US citizens would pay taxes if it they had that option easily. Non paying and underpaying us citizens go to extra effort and risk to NOT pay. The total value of US tax evasion is also much higher. I do not see any wisdom in throwing billions of dollars to recoup a small expense when there is a much larger amount of unpaid tax money sitting with documented citizens we can easily trace. How many people actually follow the proper tax laws for selling personal items online like CL or eBay? How many report unpaid sales tax on internet purchases? Or Corporate tax cheats in the billions? Why throw a big solution at a smaller problem when a larger gain exists and is easier to go after? It makes no sense.
Illegals do not pay taxes take money from us when they go to school cost money while they are in prison and bring drugs over the border. This is no small problem a wall is very cheap as i explained to carne up there when the cost are really taken into account when it comes to schooling and the care of prisoners who are illegal. I would like to know the number of people not paying taxes as your source if i recall did not list a number of people but the number of money not paid or underpaid. While this is a problem does 1 problem allow the ignorance of another problem? Because some americans btw not anywhere near half do not pay their taxes does that mean we should ignore illegals and not try to put restrictions to keep them from coming in and adding to the problem.
No. I wouldn't. We have more than doubled size to 20,000 agents and not seen a corresponding gain in benefits. Adding another 25% would make the difference? 1,989 miles of land with 25,000 agents to monitor it. With all the contraband that makes it through known check points, high security areas which are designed specifically to congregate traffic and allow search and seizure. With a 230~ mile border mined, walled, with automated defenses, booby traps, constant surveillance, life or death consequences, and die hard fear the Korean border has seen tens of thousands of incursions since the DMZ was erected. Like I said, how much money do we want to throw at preventing the loss of a small sum of money when there are much larger sums of money more easily secured or captured through other means? Would you buy a plane ticket to Boston every month to pick up a $10 check every month if there was a $50 check down the block you could pick up instead?
Im not arguing your numbers (yet if at all)(I'm doing laundry and not in the mood.) I'm arguing that modern parallels for failure exist but not success to this idea. I'm saying if this is a problem, does this solve it? You show a problem with sources but not evidence that spending this money on this will give equal remediation. I'm saying that if they are illegal and don't pay taxes, why not make it easier to become legal? Use the money and resources for that first. Remove the incentive and the "regular people" from the equation so that any numbers left are criminals, then review the statistics then? Why build the wall then reform the process? Unless the goal isn't to stop illegals from Mexico but Mexicans? Or create a program for long term visas from Mexico for those who work and abide the law, with amnesty after a certain period? That's a good use of money and would certainly reduce the tax burden.
we wont know till we try but there is reason to believe that it would in fact affect the numbers going in. And im saying there is money to earn because illegals are costing us much more then the wall would call so i feel like there is incentive and in no way what you described it but if you do not want debate anymore we can simply agree to disagree.
I was joking and it was pointing at the fact i say one thing get off and i come back and i have 6 people saying things to me that i have to now reply to.
ive listed my reasons and sources and so now there is nothing more we can say. My point is out there in the comments and i will ether be wrong or right and only time will tell.
Like I said don't have time to read it all, but your comment that I originally replied, sorry but you missed the point of tbe post completly so there's no a smart debate I can have about it. I mean you mentuoned a plane having to land somewhere lol. If you say you made smarts comments after that. I will have to take your word for it, because i am in not desire of reading
It was a nice try from Trumpie, he didn't think about it really well
H e n c e t h e t i t l e
This post has a link to the source; maybe you should check it out.
and they even say that could be 10 percent less as other sources have found it that way. That still leaves 55-60 percent. In fact none of us can prove how many of each group cross because they are all undocumented in fact Ramos a democrat who appeared on Bill Riley said that 40 percent of immigrants come on plane http://www.politifact.com/punditfact/statements/2015/sep/08/jorge-ramos/ramos-40-undocumented-immigrants-come-air/ This site here said it could be that or higher or it could very well easily be much much lower. So i completely doubt
Also there's an Adam ruins everything on this tat I recommend you watch
https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.cnn.com/money/2017/04/19/news/economy/undocumented-immigrant-taxes/index.html
https://itep.org/wp-content/uploads/immigration2016.pdf
Here's an estimate from the IRS for tax cheats:
https://www.google.com/amp/www.thefiscaltimes.com/2016/04/29/IRS-Now-Pegs-Tax-Cheating-Americans-458-Billion-Annually%3famp
Unsecured ports:
https://www.cfr.org/report/maritime-transportation-and-port-security
Continued....
https://www.justice.gov/archive/ndic/pubs38/38661/movement.htm
The US has and will continue to demand drugs, and people will supply drugs as we can see by just the seizures the potential profits in supplying the US drug appetite. The only way any contraband gets from the port or the border to the customer is over US soil. Our ports and roadways are the weak links. People cross the north/South Korean border and it's the most heavily guarded border in the world. Mines, mini guns, soldiers, 24/7 surveillance and less area to watch.