Advice from various marriage-therapist/relationship surveys/studies. See comments for

I’ve never argued with any partner anywhere near once a day, even in relationships which have spanned decades and you’ve had time together. That said though, I don’t think it would be so odd or even that it means two people aren’t well suited to each other if they do fight every day. Certain personality types butt heads with people, and all relationships have their own dynamics. I’ve known people who were like that- they weren’t interested in getting along. They liked passion and being challenged. Relationships always have somempower dynamics but to them- those dynamics were key. They’d push a partner’s limits intentionally just to see if they’d push back, and expected the same. Relationships are push and pull, when two people are both the sorts that push, they will often have an antagonistic dynamic, and some people like “drama” and don’t want to settle into a more sedate life, they enjoy the “thrill” of the struggle for power and find balance that way instead of through more...

... diplomatic compromise. To their credit, there are legitimate points to the method. There isn’t false civility or courtesy, words don’t go unsaid and opinions are always on the table for all to see. In some ways it’s a very honest form of communication that takes a lot of trust and a strong bond. To that point- it’s relatively easy to stand by and love or tolerate a person who blends in easily to your life. Who doesn’t cause problems or regularly bring negative emotions to the surface for you. However couples with antagonistic dynamics stay together despite the fact they fight regularly. There are many studies that show some fighting to be healthy, no or almost no arguing or dissent to be unhealthy, and that a healthy relationship isn’t reallly judges on fights but on how two people are able to have their needs fulfilled mutually and communicate with their partners effectively. So I suppose if it’s effective for two people to do so and they are otherwise fulfilled to each their own.

*disclaimer: to be clear- frequent fighting CAN be a sign of incompatibility or poor interpersonal skills. Not everyone with that dynamic actually enjoys it or exercises it in a “healthy” way. For some people that dynamic is all they know, or a pattern they have picked up, and negatively impacts their happiness. Others are with people they likely shouldn’t be either out of some practical reason such as financial interdependence or family structure, etc. or emotional reasons such as low self esteem or fear, feelings of obligation or guilt, feelings of lack of options, etc. I am not saying that it is healthy to constantly or violently clash- but each relationship and person is unique and it is possible to have a happy, healthy, and loving relationship where conflict is a central element as opposed to incompatibility, abuse, immaturity, or lust leading the decision.

i've been around people who express their feelings even if that leads to a bit of a heated discussion with their beloved partner. perhaps y'all want to prove it to me how repression for the sake of ''peace'' is healthier.
also, perhaps the economics should be considered. there's not much to fight about if everything is in abundance. :P

@lindsmolinari- I don’t want to prove anything. I agree with you and even say in my reply a version of what you said. People are different, relationship styles and dynamics are different. Suffering and resenting in silence isn’t any healthier than a violently abusove relationship. Any two people, no matter how perfect, will misunderstand or disagree from time to time, some more often than others. Compatibility isn’t about being clones of each other that always think and act the same. It’s about how two unique individuals are able to stay together and work out their differences. If two people are happy, fulfilled, and not doing lasting damage to each other by being together- they are healthy and compatible. Even if they are unhealthy- that’s their business. If they want to self destruct in a blaze of passion- they need to choose the life they want. It’s not the place of an observer to pass judgment on people who are willingly and able mindedly in a relationship.

What one person considers the “perfect” relationship, another considers torture. So no- I wouldn’t disagree with you or try to be so pompous as to try and invalidate your experiences or call them somehow “wrong.” Personally I haven’t fought that much with a partner, but I know people who have. To each their own. There is a balance in communicating. Arguing is a skill. Going too far, being too hurtful and attacking their deepest insecurities over little things is not healthy- but proportional anger- to show you’re upset, to draw boundaries. And ultimately fighting can show we care. If you catch your partner cheating- you don’t get mad unless you care. Care about the relationship, or just care about yourself. That’s healthy. So hopefully you didn’t think my reply was undermining or criticizing. I know it was long and don’t blame you if yoi didn’t read it.

oh no, that angry-ish bit in my reply , the one about 'proving' things wasn't aimed at you, @guest_ , honestly. :) you sound like a very balanced person and if not at least as someone articulate and experienced enough to make the reading of your commentary quite a delight. i've no beef with you, promise.
i'm just upset a bit that people (apparently, considering some replies to this thread) consider a bit of a disagreement and yelling to be a marker of a bad relationship. i on the other hand worry more about being afraid to express feelings and anger for fear of your partnet resenting you or whatever. even a terrific relationship will still feature lots of screaming and disagreements, that's how people are. nobody is so compatible they'd be able to read each other minds and such. talking/expressing concerns is a healthy way of solving things, not silence and repression/resentment. :S

No worries. I just wanted to make sure that I hadn’t accidentally offended you. You sound like you have a good head on your shoulders as well, and I agree that repression isn’t healthy. In fact I would say that being able to express yourself in a relationship in a way that works for you and having a partner that can do the same. I’d say incompatible or inadequate communication is far worse than having little in common. Words unsaid that should have been said cause as much a problem and for most are more common than words said that shouldn’t have been. Like boxers, one can fight “civilly” and not to destroy the other person. I think that’s something many don’t understand. A fight doesn’t always mean tearing the person down and apart with words. It can be a passionate exchange of ideas.

that's terribly nice of you, thank you!
glad we agree that fighting, at least the regular, slightly prodcutive, often unavoidable kind, isn't supposed to be a dreaful, mean attack on the other person involved. it matters a lot if you yell at someone /because they left breadcrumbs on the couch/ or because /they're a bad person who leaves breadcrumbs on the couch/. just like you said, we should avoid criticising the person instead of their actions, it's mean and usually unproductive.
i believe it's possible to love someone very much and disagree with certain things they do or believe. p. sure it's quite impossible to love absolutely everything about someone. :S

Well said. Love doesn’t mean liking everything about a person, and it doesn’t mean loving them “despite” what you don’t like. It means accepting them whole and complete, for who they are in a moment; the possibilities of who they may become or the memories of who they once were asides. I wish more people had as healthy a view as you, and understood that people can disagree or even fight over issues they care about or that effect them emotionally without having it be a reflection on the person they are fighting with. Part of that too is owning our own flaws, and sometimes we fight just because we feel defensive about our own faults and can realize through arguing how much the other cares to go through helping us realize unpleasant truths about ourselves that we want to change. Thank you. Your words are very wise.

only stumbled upon your reply now, sincere apologies for the delay. i felt i really had to reply to thank you because, well, it means a lot to hear such praise, even if it is only from a stranger on the internet. it took me a while (e.g. long years od disappointment and personal growth) to get such a /wise/ view on relationships and stuff and i'm pretty proud of it too, frankly. it's also very frustrating as a lot of people (my age. and older. and younger. *sigh*) don't see these things the same way so it's hard to ... it's hard to find someone to love and be loved back properly (even if just platonicaly, maintaining good friendships is an ordeal). it's even hard to discuss other people's relationships as they tend to have obnoxiously biased views on the flaws and just won't listen to reason (ie, me. ^^). i feel really alone as a result, sometimes.
anyway, i'm really glad we've had this exchange. (putting it more childishly: you made my lil cold heart happy for a moment there. :D)

Take heart. It can be hard. Much of the world likes to think in binary, label the introspective or the moderate or understanding as indecisive or unrealistic. Some people are quite literally incapable of understanding a broader view. That is their failing and not yours. It can’t be held against them what is their natural limit at any particular moment- but it certainly can have an emotional and mental impact on those who are able to see a broader scope- having to deal with it. Not sure how old you are, it tends to get better in your 30’s and 40’s though if you haven’t reached those ages yet. Either way please don’t feel alone. The world is full of kindred spirits and minds that like myself think your perspective is wonderful or interesting. You just have to find each other. In the end though people can only love us in their way the best they know how. It’s just wether or not that is acceptable to us or not. Standards are good- they help those who have them to live their best life....

.... and the more we have, the higher the quality we can hope to get from life, but the more difficult it becomes to find a good fit. Quality over quantity is a good motto, but so long as we are in an physically and emotionally healthy situation it is often prudent in getting the best enjoyment of life to put expectations to the back of the mind and take things as they are, whole and complete but ultimately flawed to our ideal perfection. Things just happen as they do. The world is full of ugly things and no beauty is without cost. It’s the entropy of the natural world. Identifying beauty where we can find it and reconciling the often savage nature of the world and man with it is an important skill that we never truly finish polishing. For what it is worth you have an internet ally- and I hope that our paths cross more often as you seek interesting and intelligent.

thanks for the kind words and encouragement! i feel similarly regarding the "high" standards in life but i have been told repeteady that i've allowed them to get too high and thus will never find happiness (or people to meet them) so it would be better to just accept that the world is shite and people are what they are and move on. i however refuse to. when someone makes an effort to try to understand you and really sees you, the good and the bad and still cherishes you, that's a really glorious feeling. however rare or brief these moments are, i think they're worth it. it might come at a price of being alone or lonely for certain periods of time, but i'll still make that deal. the only feeling worst than being lonely on your own is being lonely with people close to you. so i guess i'll stick to my standards, high as they might be and if i get lucky, i will. if not, at least i'll be miserable because i wouldn't live on other people's terms and settle for less. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

i don't think it's necessary to understand some deep philosophical truths about life to be able to care about people and take a genuine interest into what's in their hearts. i believe it has to with courage and mostly, with an actual desire to truly know someone. that's why it's so frustrating for me to deal with individuals who want to keep everything shallow and trivial. they're NOT incapable of interst and curiosity and compassion, those are children's traits, we all have some in us even as adults. they just refuse to care or something?? they'd travel the world to 'find themselves' and scroll through miles of facebook pages to learn every itty bit of someone's 'interests' but they twitch uncomfortably if one replies to 'how are you' with anything other than 'fine thanks'. i feel we should take more interest in people's feelings, thoughts and vulnerabilities instead of where they've been vacationing. it's /not/ that hard.

Oh hai guys! I love the topic of relationships and what attracts two people together. If you like reading, I'd recommend Modern Romance by Aziz Ansari (the comedian.) He co-authored the book with a sociologist. They take a scientific and super entertaining approach that addresses all the things you guys are chatting about. Basically, dating today is a reflection of what happens when a human has way too many choices. It helped me wrap my head around how hard it is to find a good person and redefine what I am looking for in a healthy way.

@jasonmon- if it has your seal of approval, consider my interest piqued.
@lindsmolinari- I certainly see where you are coming from and largely agree. Some people have the theoretical ability to engage others- it’s just that many are very “self oriented,” they interact with the world in terms of what they see as it relates to them. For example- is a person asking about you because they are interested in you- or they simply need more information to categorize you in their mind? Are they listening to your story because they care- or because they are building a social obligation for you to listen to theirs? And of course- “how are you?” A prime example of the social contract. We know consciously and subconsciously that success is aided or required by social interactions. So instead of people succeeding through natural discourse- we have invented protocols where one uses social interaction with the goal of success instead of a consequence of genuine interaction. It’s understandable one...

... might be put off by such disingenuous placation. The truth is though that most people aren’t intentionally doing so. We tend to ape social behaviors as they occur around us. So many times people aren’t concoiusly doing these Hingis but simply doing what they thought they were supposed to, and they are expecting the default reaction. By and large I usually don’t hold it against anyone- nor do I begrudge others who might. It isn’t that hard to actually care about other people- even ones you don’t know- but some are very practiced against it or may take more effort to do so. I don’t think you’re wrong for desiring a person to genuinely care- nor should you be expected to “settle” for a plastic veneer that simulates it. It sucks when one is inconvenienced by their own standards- but as you say- unhappy alone or unhappy with someone else, if one is to be unhappy one should at least do so on their own terms.

*not saying “unhappy” as in life without another cannot be happy- but in the context of this discussion as in: the unhappiness of being alone vs the unhappiness of being with someone who doesn’t provide the counterpoint to your core being. Being without an obviously incompatible mate is not only kinder to them as well as if they invest emotionally they will inevitably be heart broken, but also better for the one making the call as they can conduct other affairs that make them happy or produce without worrying about the feelings of a partner they do not actually want to be with.

@jasonmon i think that's an interesting take, having too many choices and the spoiling effect that might have on dating and finding a compatible partner. thanks for the book recc!
@guest_ this might come off as very primitive but i have always hated the social politesse and 'how are you's being thrown around solely as a way of satisfying social rituals. you could say i begrudge the entire society who even invented this. :P i've never asked someone how they were feeling if i didn't genuinely want to know. but that's purely my quirk and i realise i shouldn't judge others too harshly who don't feel about this the same way i do. i just take an instant liking to those people who answer thruthfully and who listen carefully to my reply (which is honestly almost never 'fine').

as for partnerts, nobody will be perfectly happy with anyone because we are all deeply flawed and irritable human beings but i feel it's important to find someone mature enough who understands this and is willing to devote themselves to the relationship to the same level as me, so that both sides take an effort to making it work. people who don't know/ want to learn how to communicate, make allowances, forgive, have productive falling outs etc, people who don't even know themselves enough to know how to live /alone/, they don't cut it. i don't want to spend decades on raising someone who should be a fully functional adult to start with, i don't care how good they look or how much money they have, hoenstly. people might even love you deeply and still be horrible long-term partners and as heartbreaking as it is, it's better to go separate ways than trying to twist and mould them into something you think they should be. changing people is a cruel and ungrateful process that rarely works.

I would by and large agree. I don’t think you primitive to dispose false platitudes. If anything it is quite the opposite, more advanced in my opinion to be past a point where neurosis or other self insecurity required validation from empty gestures. That’s really how it developed more or less. A two tiered benefit of both feigning interest to ingratiate as well as a method of essentially alleviating the social discomfort of silence. A way of saying “I acknowledge you and mean you no ill will or hostility.” The more right leaning or self determinate or objectionist may take offense to my philosophy- but I believe that outside of imminent survival situations the burden lies with the strong. The weak can gain strength, the ignorant can learn, etc. but it is a process which takes time. So while it shouldn’t be rewarded or celebrated- those more able are the ones who must suffer the means to support the less able. Not that we should “cut down” the tall to be as short, but that the short...

... may never be quite as tall but can grow if supported or at least tolerated. So mindless exchange of pleasantries is something that I know is a necessary thing for many people and so I accommodate, but appreciate when a person doesn’t require it. I agree that changing yourself or trying to change another to match an ideal is not healthy. People change organically, and while others may inspire us to make hard changes to become the person we want to be- act as a catalyst to motivate and support positive changes, we shouldn’t be compelled to do so nor should their love be contingent on us doing so. We shouldn’t have to give up who we are in a relationship- we should discover who we can become through the organic process of sharing life experience and having another perspective to see the world through.

so basically, if i got it right, you feel that the people with above average level of emotional intelligence are left two options: suffer quietly in their own alienation or make an effort to try and help the less emotionally intelligent (adults) to gain more insight, however painful and frustrating that process might be. that about right? C:
it's probably true, even. i'm perhaps just too harsh, demanding and selfish to be prepared to agree to this philosophy. maybe i just haven't experienced enough kindness from my peers while growing up to develop sympathy and ability to forgive incompetence. don't they say most of our flaws as adults stems from wonky childhoods?

what i find the hardest is to balance on one side the awareness of my own worth as a pretty empathic, thoughful, emotionally sane person and on the other side the fact that i also am only human with flaws and issues which make me, too, difficult to live with. on one side i feel i /deserve/ someone equally "terrific" and advanced as myseld while on the other i feel like i'm not entitled to be so demanding because i am, just like everyone else, a pretty miserable companion with a lot of negative traits.
so i'm stuck wondering "do i deserve better or should i /settle/ for less-than-ideal as i am not some great catch either"?
so sorry i got you into this highly philosophical debate, i realise it's kind of hard to reply anything remotely satisfying or relevant to questions like these. although, to be honest, you're doing really well in that regard so far.

No worries. For me, I see a lack of kindness from others as precisely the reason that I must endevour to be kind. I can’t change the way others behave. I can, through my actions and words tell others how I wish to be treated, but their behavior is ultimately their own. However the closest thing to control we might have is over ourselves. This is why I feel the need to be kind to others, even those who would not be kind to me. It is highly doubtful that negativity on my part would enhance their behavior, more likely as you have observed it would reinforce their feelings of justification for a particular philosophy. There are of course practical limits. We have to put on our mental and emotional health as a priority and not allow ourselves to be a “giving tree” that gives tonothers at our expense until there is nothing left for us. To help someone tomorrow, you must be in business tomorrow. But where and as able I endevour to do better than my peers and better than myself.

As for being flawed- I find to reconcile such issues we have to remember that the world isn’t binary. People aren’t simply broken or perfect. All things exist in shades. Like colors. And like colors, none is “perfect” above all others or necessarily the “best” for every situation. A world of all a single color and shade would be unpleasant at the least. But some colors compliment each other very well, and we all have tastes on whatbwe prefer. So we all may be imperfect human beings, but somewhere is someone who’s imperfect traits compliment our own to our liking. Reciprocation is the important factor. Since we are all “imperfect” in some way at some time- we will inevitably disappoint or annoy or upset each other. So when someone acts in good faith to accommodate our imperfect human selves and we are willing to do the same, that’s a good start. I don’t think it’s selfish or unfair to ask that a person meet certain expectations. We can realign our expectations as we feel we should...

... but honest self assement is a skill most people are bad at, but crucial of a self inventory. That said- in some ways it’s irrelevant. What if we are asking more of a partner than we feel we offer? Law of perceived value. To me, that old jacket is junk. I see it’s value as low. To another- it’s the perfect vintage piece and nothing like it exists. They’d pay thousands for it and I’d give it away for a dollar. So even if we see our value as short- another may not. To them, we might be exactly what they want in life. So we bumble around looking for someone we can enjoy, that we can feel a connection to, that we can match practical matters with, and who sees our value and we see theirs. It’s a relative scale based on perspective. So more than anything we can just take people as they come and asses wether or not we are enjoying their company. If we are- enjoy it longer. If we aren’t- don’t spend more time on them. Repeat until you spend forever or stop enjoying. Then repeats as desired.