To add to this, you deserve vacation days too

Do I have them as “as needed on call” workers who only get shifts when I’m short? Who will take a job for any justifiable wage where your shifts are “whenever” and thus you can’t even have multiple such jobs lest they conflict- let alone you might get what- 8 hours or less a week? And of course- I could just divide shifts up- 4 fry cooks working 20 hours each can become 8 scheduled for 10 a week and they can pick up shifts as they are available.

That last one is a practice that is used commonly- and also commonly in similar memes and mindsets- painted as villainy. “They don’t give people enough hours!” “No one works enough to qualify for benefits” and the other big meme one is the “job calls on my day off to come in- screw em. I’m not picking up.”

So now you’ve got 8 guys working 10 hours on the calendar a week- on the principal that of one of the 4 on duty at any time no shows- you call in one of the other 4 off duty- except the same popular sentiment as this says exactly the same thing: “don’t show up- they should have planned for this...” you ARE THE PLAN. That’s why there are 8 guys instead of 4. But what are the odds a guy working 10 hours doesn’t have a second job? So there’s a likely possibility at least 2 of your 4 standbys won’t be able to come in at any given time because of their other job(s) right? So what... hire 16 guys and give them 5 hours a week each...?

Do it all yourself! Nah, obviously impossible, but while defending the other side of the issue you also inadvertently pointed out that the whole relationship has some super squirrelly issues. Stability would go a long way in address issues; on both perspectives.

@guest_ Actually, unless it’s in someone’s garage the webservers will have at least N-1 redundancy on every possible component. This includes compute, hardware, cabling, networks, ISPs, and power.

From a business perspective if you document and train people on various services then you can have a single floater on any given shift to cover where needed for capacity and/or cover missing employees. If one particular service is critical then overstaffing is warranted.

@scatmandingo- Critical is the key word there. All things operate with a tolerance. If you understaff your surgical ward- people may well die, and you may “burn out” an employee with hundreds of thousands of dollars in training, decades of experience, and a special aptitude which makes their replacement something that will be difficult. A critical failure there is someone dies and you literally evaporate decades of work and investment- potentially millions of dollars. When you understaff the piggly wiggly, a critical failure is people wait in longer lines and your stock doesn’t get faced.

But- speaking of the piggly wiggly- some of the nations leading retailers are known for having large lines and understaffing (from consumer and employee perspective) cashiers and help staff. Yet- they manage to keep it to within a tolerance that seems to keep them quite profitable. I don’t know many people who have vowed and succeeded to never shop at big box retail again due to their lines. These businesses understand their customer base and when and why people go to them instead of Amazon. You’d think that all these decades later, no lines, competitive prices, wide selection, customer reviews, saving gas... etc. would have put the big box chains under in favor of convenient E shopping without pants.

One fairly recent solution to understaffing in retail has been automated “self checkout.” A machine which rarely issues a shift when called, never sues, doesn’t take breaks or require healthcare or minimum wage, doesn’t ask for raises or promotions, and so long as it isn’t malfunctioning does exactly as asked. Automation is a tool to help relieve staff issues- but it also means you don’t need to hire as many people, and eventually in many sectors of not stopped by law it will likely mean entire jobs will no longer be done by humans save perhaps for novelty or brand image.

So I suppose we solve the problem of understaffing if we just... eliminate 90% of the staff- but you still have 1 human watching 10 automated lanes for problems, 1 human servicing 100 machines, and when the person responsible for making sure every retail store with 100% automation in the tristate area is sick- from a business perspective THAT is a critical failure.

So it’s relative. To be blunt- many industries undervalue workers and operate as “meat grinders” under the principal that people will take jobs with terrible pay and terrible conditions- and the people who take those jobs generally do so because they have no choice. So even if they make it more terrible- the fact you didn’t leave before likely means you can’t or you won’t. But if you DO leave- you really aren’t critical. There are thousands on thousands more that are looking to take your job- shit and all.

Automation- even as simple as registers that calculate change- makes it so that literally almost anyone can do some jobs. Even jobs like credit and finance which were once very knowledge based are being automated with software to the point where you don’t need the best. You need someone with a basic level of proficiency who can use the system- and the systems are bei designed to do more and more of the work- meaning that as we approach a theoretical point where machines do more jobs autonomously or near so- the level of skill and thus how “critical” any worker is becomes less and less.

The primary motivator in modern consumer mass markets tends to be price and features with speed coming up a close third. Service and other intangibles tend to exist more in the luxury segments- Apple and the general animosity and sentiment that they sell “overpriced garbage” is a clear example of where most mass consumers want to see spec sheets with big numbers and lots of features, and a low price tag and aren’t calculating experience and support etc. into their valuations.

A true retail professional is a pleasure. They know the store back to front- where everything is. They know products, they can make recommendations and are knowledgeable about what their store sells and what the strengths of various products are. They are helpful and courteous and invested in making your shopping trip enjoyable while helping you to achieve your goals.

And.... they are all but extinct outside small towns, boutiques, and places that specifically cater to offering a user experience. The fact of the matter is that Walmart doesn’t see a proportional gain in profit if they vet every employee and only hire the best retail professionals who will meet those standards above. It likely hurts their bottom line.

From a business perspective- it makes no sense to pay a person $20+ an hour for a job that can literally be done by almost anything with a pulse- and it doesn’t make sense to demand such standards if you’re paying $5 an hour because for $5 an hour you generally aren’t attracting the best of humanities professional workforce since they likely have the skills to get better employ- or if they do not they could work somewhere else for the same or less and not have such high standards to meet.

Put another way- if you are making a pro sports team- you need- let’s say- 20 players of the highest caliber possible. You will pick the 20 best and then do everything you are able to incentivize them to join and stay. But- if I told you your team needed 10,000 people on the field- it is much harder to find 10,000 Micheal Jordan’s or Dan Marino’s or Pele’s than it is to find 20; and you can’t afford to pay 10,000 players $50 million each a season. As a practical matter- if you need to fill 10,000 slots you are going to end up likely lowering your standards quite a bit unless you are offering something that makes 10,000 skilled professionals want to fight for a slot-

And at the end of the day I’m most fields you don’t NEED the best or second best or even 10th best person in the world for any particular job- the functional effect on profits or ability to sustain and maintain infrastructure and growth is either negligible- or it is actually better for your bottom line to use labor that is easily and quickly replaced and brought to speed.

Companies take blame. It isn’t “right” even if it is profitable- but capitalism is a mirror- it isn’t the devil some make it to be- it is the system of economics which most truly reflects back upon a society who they really are. Business follows money, money incomes from consumers who make choices. The lack of morality with corporations is not simply “evil rich men trying to get richer” but is a society of moral bankruptcy that puts currency and goods ahead of people and values. We feed the beast that bites us when it bites us- and then get upset it bites us again- yet we repeat said cycle. If you replaced the boards of these “evil corporations” with their own consumers- you would in general wind up with more or less the same outcome. Countless revolutions in history have shown that.

The corrupt and decedent overthrown for the sake of decency and morality are then replaced by a system of control that is the same effectively but has just changed who benefits from the wrongs and what the particular wrongs entail.

And then- we must also blame the worker. While corporations do not tend to value the “soft skills” and knowledge of those in “non critical positions,” the majority of the outlook on the worker side is to then detach ones self from professionalism. “If they won’t treat me like a professional I won’t act like one!” “If they won’t act with honor, neither will I!” But that is the same logic corporations can apply to dealings with workers- it becomes a circular argument. But the individual can only control their own actions, and is accountable for their own actions- not others.

Who suffers when the worker doesn’t engage in their job? Customers, coworkers, managers perhaps, and of course the worker themselves. The guys cashing the checks at the top and making the decisions like how you’re treated or what the salary range is or how many people a store gets- their money doesn’t take a noticeable hit when you are less than committed to excellence. The worker however, may feel a sense of justice or vengeance in “half assing” or being able to “strike back” and exert some power over their oppressor- “No Simon. I’m not coming in to cover that shift!” ha! They think. Take that!

But what are the odds that their act of rebellion hasn’t been repeated countless times? Has it yet been the kick to transform the system? “Oh no. Short staffed on a Friday. I’m a failure- from here on I will treat every worker as a professional, pay them well, and expand staffing!” - said basically no retail manager ever to getting a somewhat expected brush off from a low wage employee in a field where the stereotype is irresponsibility and bad attitudes.

What benefit have they gotten- an ex from many years ago who used to turn down shifts at the store she worked- doing nothing, no plans. Turning down paid work to literally complain about how bored they were- out of spite and principal gathered of their industry. And this bettered them and their circumstances how? It earned them ire from management- a label as not a team player and unreliable that got them passed for promotions and ignored as raises and given shit work in an already shit job.

But- that’s the thing. This sort of attitude is appealing because it doesn’t require anything from US. THEY are the bad guys. THEY need to change. We need to complain and act shitty and hope that gets us our way. It’s much harder to go to work, do our best even when it isn’t appreciated, and hold our heads high. Success and wealth are practiced arts. They aren’t a switch you flip when you decide someone is suddenly making it worth it for you to try. Growth is a process.

Practice doesn’t make perfect- if you practice something the wrong way for 20 years then you’ll be very good at doing it wrong. What’s more- when and if you decide to do it right- you’ll have to unlearn 20 years of bad habits and start new from day 1. If you practice being excellent every day, if you never settle for less than what you know you can do- you’ll get very good at that. It will become second nature.

If you apply that and some thinking to things- and have a little luck- you CAN better your situation. If you are a good worker and a hard worker- your bosses may not notice- but your coworkers may. 3,5,10 years later they may be working a sweet gig or started their own business and you may ask, or they may ask you; to come on board. And if they remember you as that person with the shorty attitude who was unreliable and petty and always dragging your feet on the job talking about how you were justified in your shirking because you weren’t getting paid enough or didn’t like the boss or whatever- they may not be so keen on putting their reputation at stake for you.

Why do you think, asides “money” these CEO types get fired from one job for some scandal or screw up and suddenly are hired at another major company? It isn’t just money because all the people hiring them have money too. It’s because of attitude. It’s because they were a team player up to the end. If a ceo trashes their people and outs dirt- they likely are done. When these guys get sacked- it often isn’t anything to actually do with them. Someone else did something they need to take the fall for, or someone else needs them to move out of the way so they can make a move, and for being a team player and not throwing tantrums and causing problems- their people make sure they have somewhere nice and soft to fall to.

The same applies to a lesser extend all the way down the line. But if a person can’t value what they have, there is no reason to believe they’d care any better for more- nothing is ever “enough” and you can ask people making half a million dollars a year or more if they get paid fairly for their work and many will tell you that they don’t get paid enough for what they have to go through. A funny thought that an actor can speak of the long hours when they make millions- but plenty of people work longer hours for less.

An athlete can tell of how they need millions because their job is physically punishing, and they don’t even get insurance! Well- there are plenty of people who beat up their bodies daily. They lift heavy things and breath and crawl through toxic muck. They often don’t get or are discouraged from proper protective equipment and practices, no one is watching out for them- no agents or managers and many also do not have retirements or health care- and they do not make millions.

So at the end of the day- wether you are an athlete making millions or crawling through medical waste all day for $10 an hour- you’re going to meet people who will say they don’t make enough but are grateful for what they have- and people who say they don’t make enough and don’t care about their work. You’ll see million dollar athletes and performers who study and practice and throw themselves with intensity into being the best they can- and ones who stay up all day and night and have drug fueled parties and treat practices like a joke.

We cannot pin our attitudes on our circumstances. It is again- circular. Our circumstances can influence our attitudes, our attitudes can effect our circumstances. While you can’t always change your circumstances- you can always be responsible for changing your attitudes in the hope that helps change your circumstances.

I've seen some long responses from you, but that was a fuckin landslide lol. I'll read it eventually, but right now I have a chocobo forest to cut through and must seek wisdom from a very pissed dragon.

lol. Good luck my friend. I hear good things about the new FF7- but I fear playing for I know what that will mean for me...

I had to save my nephew from ff14 after playing it for 20 minutes. I saw exactly what would happen.
Let the teen have teenage years!

But it isn’t always up to your manager who they can hire. An owner, their manager, executives may make the determination on how many people they can have. They might get a budget- $60 total for all staff let’s say- and let’s say they need 6 workers optimally but that’s $10k each so they hire 4 at at $15k because they want to at least give them enough to live on- but the trade is those 4 have to work harder and the manager needs to rely on them more... and then as thanks for the extra pay they turn around and say “fuxk you. Hire more people..” ok. I’ll hire as many as you want- but you get to split your salary with every one I hire.

This of course is all predicated on you being able to hire and keep workers. Too many people want the pay but don't want to do the work. At my job it always seems to be a surprise to people when we say it can be a physically demanding job and the job actually turns out to be physically demanding.

Agreed. Again- I won’t say that many workers aren’t abused or many companies or even industries are exploitive etc- BUT- a contract for work is a contract. The pay is noted and the assumption is present or often made known that you will be expected to work hard and give your best effort- not the best effort you deem worthy. You agree to go do a job for a set amount- if the job isn’t worth the money don’t do it. If you have no choice- thats sad but it’s the reality of the moment and half assing or griping won’t improve your lot 99% of the time. Work ethic is a practiced skill as much as in inborn trait. You take that with you. If you need a job but treat it frivolously- what makes it the case that one would take seriously a job they didn’t really need?

To be clear- it’s flat wrong to exploit or mistreat workers. It’s a shame when workers aren’t valued and treated as humans. And if a job misrepresents (not- “situations changed- but “lie”) the work you will be doing, the pay, the hours, or they cheat you on what was agreed upon- they are flat out chickensh$t. BUT- you don’t control THEM. You control YOU. Demand what was agreed upon, or do the job the way you promised while you get things in order to quit. If they Welch and you Welch that doesn’t make them the bad guys because they did it first. That’s kindergarten talk. You’ll stay or leave as the type of person you are- the person YOUR actions define you as.

That’s my take anyway- and their are always pocket cases and exceptions- but largely- companies nowadays often operate without integrity- but so many workers don’t have integrity either, and a company is just workers and owners- so if we lack integrity we are part of the problem and can’t really get upset at other people for the same faults we exhibit.