What do u want

Not the first time I've seen people saying all the girls they meet are like this, lately. Still trying to figure out whether they're just looking in the wrong places, or attracted to the wrong people

I go into it in a longer post below- but from at least what I’ve seen- it’s just expectations vs. reality. For many women- especially young women- especially educated or career women- marriage, kids, blah blah- isn’t a priority. The rate of women over 40 with no kids ever rose from 10% in the 70’s and most of the 80’s to 20% in the 2000’s before dropping to about 15%. The age at which women choose to have children or even get married on average- has risen substantially over just a few decades.

Women have choices- and their greatest ambitions in life previously were mostly limited to marrying into wealth, becoming a celebrity, or having a family. As laws and society have changed and women have been increasingly born into a world where they are taught from a young age that they can set their sights on anything- women largely have.

So it’s 2020. A woman achieving legal age in this year still has social and other challenges- but she has more legal and social freedom to do, be, see anything she wants- and the ability to get the means. While college degrees among men decline- among young women the percents getting educations rises. She’s young, doesn’t need to be taken care of, has goals and hobbies and agency. And in our present world- while men hold much of the role of sexual aggressor (although that’s changed quite a bit too...) the “value” sexually- belongs to women. While no woman can have a skilled partner on demand- if all a woman wants is sex or company, and isn’t discerning- most women will find that there are many willing to fill those roles.

So she can have a sexual partner, she can have her own money and can do what she wants... and the modern woman doesn’t NEED a man for anything but perhaps the emotional role a relationship fills. Even having children doesn’t require a man anymore technically speaking. Strippers, porn stars, consorts and models etc- long ago figured out that even in objectification one can find a power. If women and sex are seen in whole or part as a commodity- whoever controls the supply has power so long as demand is high.

So hyper sexualization and objectification of women- social roles and status and gender roles defined by men on the ability to “get” women or “run” a “household” feed the male a need- combined with biological drives- which ultimately drives males to seek females as a primary ambition. For many males their careers or homes or other accomplishments are less driven by desire for self and more by how these things influence their mating chances.

So in the one corner- we have men who’s ancestors created a system of sex as a major social currency- and who perpetuate this- and on the other we have an increasing percentage of young, educated, self sufficient women who no longer require men to fulfill needs and purposes that society traditionally made a woman require a man for. Women who have their own ambitions and do not need- or often want- the complications and sacrifices of a committed or “traditional” relationship.

But women have biology too- and all humans have certain drives for human contact and intimacy which often cannot be satisfied through just friendships.

Tl:dr- women don’t need men for most of the things that have made men valuable for historically in society. Women have increasing educations, ambitions, and means to self sufficiency. Women can have kids later- don’t need a partner to have kids- and have the social and other freedoms to refuse motherhood and marriage- and in increasing numbers are using them. No one is immune to psychology or biology- and there still are social pressures around coupling. So we see an increasing erosion of “traditional” relationships for modern arrangements that fit the ambitions and lives of those involved. Men are strongly biologically and socially compelled to mate/couple. Even if society has relaxed the gender expectations of women- the heterosexual man- and his ability to “conquest” and or care for a mate are still...

.. central to societies views on men and still strongly instilled into men from a young age. The perceived failure at these thins indicates a deficiency as a man- whereas we have relaxed on the idea that a single woman is a failure (although such pressures still exist) see the slut/stud hypocrisy for more details on how sexual conduct is viewed differently for men and women- and a lauded aspect of male legitimacy.

In closing- women simply have the option to NOT pair up- and increasingly partners can bring more complication and detriment to the life of a woman than she feels benefited- unless that partner is exceptional. Most of what a woman can get from a relationship she can get elsewhere or at her leisure anyway- or through arrangements of non “traditional” Relationships. So long as dick pics and DM’s spew forth from the male camp- the supply of dick will vastly outpace the demand for it into the conceivable future.

All of that has very little to do with what I was talking about.
.
Sleeping around and not wanting to marry are vastly different from wanting someone you can abuse on an emotional level - which is what she wants. It's narcissism and insanity at it's finest.
.
Also - most of what men want out of a relationship they can (and do) get out of sex dolls.

If it were so simple- at $10-6,000 or so for sex dolls- and $10-6,000 or so for one session with a sex worker.... you’d think sex work would be obsolete no? I am not attacking you and you ant read my tone but it is not stern or otherwise negative. I know I wrote a lot so it isn’t an insult to say I believe you didn’t quite get it all. I mention sex- an important component of relationships and social dynamics- but what I wrote doesn’t apply only to sexual relations. There is sex as an abstract- a physical and biological component that also encompasses ideas of attractiveness or suitability as well as attraction etc.

But one can sleep around and want to marry- or not want to marry and not sleep around- etc. etc. relationships are comprised of many components. There are intangibles but also practicalities.

As for emotional abuse- is it? Is it abusive to say that you wish to be wanted, but at the same time you wish to be free? The cuck- if she got a cuck who enjoys her being with other guys- is the cuck being abused? The cuck chooses to be there don’t they? But... the battered house wife or the 10yo child who doesn’t want to leave their abusive parent chooses no? So it isn’t choice. You can choose to be in a situation of abuse. You can even be “sick” or otherwise traumatized into a situation akin to “brain washing” or “Stockholm syndrome”

But... where is the abuse here? Some people like to feel jealousy some times- the same as some like to be scared or have a good cry. Some people like when a partner ignores them a little bit- or at least doesn’t focus all their attention on them. Some people enjoy fighting with a spouse- making up- perhaps even pick minor fights for the high of making up or make up sex. Is it abuse if her man wants her to kick his balls so he can climax?

It’s kinda more nuanced I think. Is this a healthy emotional attitude? I certainly don’t think it is. But- the world is full of damaged people. Most of us will never be completely “healthy,” not that we can’t try to be- although some of us don’t want to be right? So- if two people with unconventional or unhealthy personalities meet and compliment each other- a poor example of the point and only meant to illustrate it- a guy who likes being insulted meets a woman who likes insulting men... hows that work? I mean- unless you don’t think S&M or sub and dom or likewise have any place in the world and are sicknesses to be wiped out?

Ideally both partners would enjoy such things right? So someone in the relationship has to like the other ones suffering in that regard right? But she never said she expected complete devotion. She does her thing- he does his thing- what’s abusive there?

Have you ever had an open relationship? Each is different of course. I’ve known women who got excited to see me excited- even by another woman... I’ve known women who just believed it was in a man that he would stray. They didn’t want to know, see it, and finding out would hurt them- but as long as you were discreet and safe they didn’t care. I’ve dated others who didn’t like the idea but just wanted to know who and when- a permission slip of sorts. To be clear THEY always brought it up and I am a very monogamous person when committed to someone so that’s not my thing- but those were the rules THEY laid down.

But even in open relationships people can get jealous. The idea is to not have jealousy- or learn to process and express it in healthy ways- but when you think of a person as “yours” or worry about losing them- jealousy can happen. Some people get jealous of friends and family.

And yes, I’ve dated and known many women who like when a guy is a little jealous. In my day- younger girls often did things just to make their boys jealous. It made them feel wanted, or powerful- or it was their way of exploring a new sexuality. Sometimes it was just because traditional male roles had men be less communicative and emotional- hiding signs of being effected from the world and even their partners. So it could be a way to “test” or “verify” their partner did care about them.

Healthy? I don’t think so. Abusive? Saying everything that isn’t healthy is a form of abuse certainly reduces the impact of the term abuse. Kinda like calling a wolf whistle rape. There may be a sense of violation, but that isn’t quite the same- and should likely be distinguished.

Finding out after you’re emotionally or otherwise invested- psychological manipulation and building a dependency- grooming you and isolating you... totally abusive. Being a cunt is just called being a cunt. I’m a stubborn son of a bitch. Can that cause upset at home? Yes. Fights and hurt feelings? Yes. Can I be better about compromise and such? Sure. Will I? To a point. I accept who I am. I like who I am on the whole (but still improving!) and being stubborn has helped me lots too. Is that abusive? When I refuse to change for my partner- am I abusing her or am I just being me? It’s nuanced. Complex. But sometimes people are who they are. You take it or leave it. I’d leave this one before we got much past hello.

Nah it's pretty fucking simple. If your goal is to emotionally manipulate and fuck with someone's head while demanding they love you in return - it's abuse. You can overcomplicate it based on your life all you want - if you see yourself reflected in her actions, chances are you were abusing someone emotionally at that point in time. If not, then no reason to worry about me calling out abusive behavior where I see it.
.
And fyi - 500$-10k is way cheaper than most girls I've encountered that have these attitudes. A lot of men would gladly pay that vs deal with this bullshit.

I personally can’t see myself in her behaviors- my use of self was just to give examples of various non traditional things I’ve encountered in personal experience and illustrate that non traditional or that which isn’t to our preference isn’t abuse by default. But what part of her behavior is manipulative or deceptive- and where does she say they must love her? She just wants them to get jealous if she is with other men.

To your last comment- but again- if men could get what they want from a $10 sex toy- why would men still court women? It is not quite the same I’d imagine- and if men would gladly pay great sums to avoid such women- why are so many men with women who “play games” and such? Me thinks it is not so simple as you say.

To focus the thing on one question- is a BDSM or dominant/submissive relationship between consenting adults free of coercion- inherently abusive?

If you want to divert the topic again you can do that but I'm not playing this game today. Gave you a specific opinion on a specific subject. You dislike it and want to overcomplicate it and draw in 500 other things that's your prerogative, but that's all I'm investing in this
.
And, once again, as I said - a lot of men are choosing NOT to. They're paying for or renting sex dolls. Or prostitutes. Or flying to other countries for sex. Or they're literally scoping for women that they know they can fuck and move on with minimal effort. It's not because, for many of them, they don't WANT a relationship, it's because they keep meeting bitches like this and they get tired of being screwed over, so why bother. Literally worked with a guy who was being run off his feet because they were overrun with orders for sex dolls at his other job.