Amy Schumer is scum

Well, the article itself is unsure if there's a case for rape. Putting myself in his shoes, in that sort of situation, and if that's how things went down, I'd take her to court. But perhaps the reason he doesn't is he feels he doesn't have a case because he invited her over (while drunk)?
In any case, I probably should have mentioned before that I think maybe the iffy circumstances cause some people to gloss over the acts themselves and skip to their thoughts on her and her lacking attributes.

I’m not here to defend rape or rapists. I do want to say something though- “rape” is not an action, it’s not a feeling. Rape is a combination of actions, feelings, and context. You can leave a person feeling violated without touching them or even speaking to them- without having done anything that 99.9% of people would consider rape. A person can consent to something without duress and still feel violated afterwards. Likewise- marital rape is a perfect example. You can rape a spouse, but you also can do many things with a partner that with a stranger may be rape. I’ve been with people who liked their “alarm clock” to be oral satisfaction or who liked to be inebriated during intercourse. I’ve been drunk and had sex with a sober partner before. I don’t feel raped. Wether Schumer is a rapist depends on wether these men feel raped. If they genuinely feel fine about it- it isn’t rape. That is where “rape culture” and consent come in to play. If you make sexually aggressive moves without...

.... clear consent, if you and the other person have not reached an understanding and level of communication where you can unfailingly “read” their receptiveness- you are taking a risk. Traditionally society has defined this risk as a risk of rejection. Moving past that we need to understand rejection isn’t the risk we face- but rape or assault/harassment. You CAN be aggressive, and if you are lucky or the other person is ok with that... everything is fine. Many places allow you to ride without a helmet too. The risk is what happens that time things go bad. So if these men aren’t just in denial or feeling social pressure not to report the rapes- but genuinely enjoyed or internally consented- it’s not rape. Every time I roll over on my partner of many years could be the time they see my actions as rape. The fact it COULD be rape doesn’t make it rape. A third party can’t speak on the consent of another person if that person doesn’t speak otherwise.

"Because, clearly, whether or not you want to fuck a confessed, unrepentant rapist is the important issue here"
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there is no important issue here. No matter what people decide to talk about nothing is going to happen. Nothing anyone says in this comment section will do anything. People discussing the stuff that happened regarding the alleged rape is no more important to discuss on this forum than any other topic because no matter if anything is discussed or not it changes nothing. It doesnt make it not have happened. It doesnt change the chance of her going to court over it. It has absolutely no effect on anything outside of the comment section.

@matthewg I can't get into it fully right now, but you actually raise one of the common misconceptions about female rapists. A lot of men who get sexually assaulted are asked "why didn't you just fight back?" And one of the most common reasons when there's no weapon involved is because they either don't know HOW to do so without escalating the situation and potentially getting arrested for assault, or, similarity, they've had it ingrained into the very fibre of their being that you never, ever hurt a woman. It's very hard to explain that kind of sensation to someone who has never felt something similar, but a lot of men who get assaulted in this manner genuinely get almost paralysed by their own brains trying to think of what the outcome of their actions will be, or being unable to commit to a course of action that could result in someone being hurt.

This is actually something a lot of women struggle with, too, though due to them often being physically overpowered they're not grilled about it quite as much because it's assumed if they HAD fought back they wouldn't have been successful anyway. It's actually one of the issues they have to spend a lot of time addressing in self-defense courses.

Also, bethorien if you truly believe that rape is not an important issue, or worth discussing, I don't even know what to say to you, but if you don't believe in the power or importance of words and discussion then it's a wonder to me you took the time to comment at all.

discuss it all you want. It is an important issue generally. It is not, however, any more important an issue than anything else in the context of this forum as nothing said in this forum will do anything to anything anywhere ever. Nothing said on any backwater meme site will have an effect on anything. Whether or not people discuss it on this meme site makes no difference to the issue, ergo discussing that issue on this meme site is no more important than any other discussion on this meme site.
Also this is not a discussion about rape. This is a discussion about a specific case of alleged rape which further extends the point that nothing said on this forum will have any impact on the specific case of alleged rape. Discuss it. talk about it. argue over it. But don't act like talking about it here is of any more importance and further don't act like somehow you are a bright beacon of morals and justice because you pointed out the fact that people are talking about what they want to talk

about in a place where what they talk about will have the same level of impact as talking about it in person with a group of friends.

I can’t say that’s necessarily so. Yeah yeah- we can talk about “drops in an ocean” or some far fetched and abstract idea about how some sort of progressive social change could in come small part come from this site. Let’s not though. Let’s say you’re right and in the grand arena- this isn’t even the parking lot. But.... it is full of people. That right there is enough. We have people from differing places and walks of life, and there are many young people here. So nothing discussed here might directly shape the world, but discussion and exposure can, especially with time, shape people’s views or introduce new thoughts for them to ponder. This here is an example. People disagreeing- this site isn’t a “bubble” where like minded folks back slap each other all day. There is dissent and debate. You aren’t screaming into a void or preening before a mirror. People hear you, respond to you, challenge you. That’s an environment that has the basics of being a healthy breeding ground of thought.

Is this thread the single most important, poignant, critical of all discussions on funsub? Maybe not. Likely not. But it is a serious and current issue, and I would propose that objectively it is certainly more important than at least some things being discussed on the site. Subjectively- what each of us finds most important or meaningful is just that- the thing which resonates most to us. So to an individual, random posts of rhyming words may have a deeper impact on their life than this thread. But that’s the great thing about the format- there’s something for everyone to find and people can come here with different goals and do what they came to do.

@guest_
that's just furthering my point mate.
Ill just quote myself so I don't have to type more
"Discuss it. talk about it. argue over it. But don't act like talking about it here is of any more importance and further don't act like somehow you are a bright beacon of morals and justice because you pointed out the fact that people are talking about what they want to talk about in a place where what they talk about will have the same level of impact as talking about it in person with a group of friends."

@xvarnah I can only speak for myself here, but if someone I wasn't dating, or at least into, took my hand and moved it toward their genitals, I would not allow my hand near their genitals.
The line of "reasoning" you bring up sounds insincere, to put it kindly, but I'm curious as to where this goes.

@bethorien- I agree with your sentiment that “looking down” on people is generally not the right attitude to have, and that people don’t have to discuss things the way we like- but the things we choose to discuss and the way we discuss them are what the world sees of us. Picture in your head- 9/11 the sequel. Now- picture someone clapping and saying “Whoa! That was intense. Universal studios should take note because THATS how you do explosions!” Now- it may be true that an exploding plane is quite a sight. It may be true that harnessing the same magnitude of intensity in another setting would be thrilling. That person may not want to discuss the tragedy or loss of life or politics and global ramifications of such an event. They may want to just focus on the spectacle right? Like day time fireworks...

... and if your family member dies, one persons forst words on hearing the news may be shock, disbelief, pain- and another may say “When do they read the will?” So I don’t think Xvarnah was “looking down” on others precisely- but was shocked that the part of a particular event that people choose to focus on was not exactly the most empathetic aspects. Your buddy gets divorced and when their spouse tells you they are splitting you say... “hey, now that you’re single, want to get a drink?” Or “man. Now I’m going to have him calling me and whining,” or “who kept the tv?” All potentially valid- but all show a certain kind set or character. So people can say what they like- but other people will take impressions from that. The world isn’t in our heads, it only knows the side of us we show it.

@matthewg that doesn't surprise me tbh. I don't know you very well, but you come across as a fairly confident (maybe even cocky, I don't know) person who genuinely doesn't put much stock in what other people think. You're gonna do what you're gonna do, and if the world catches on fire so be it.
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^ this is not an attack on your character just in case it was being interpreted that way. Just the genuine impression you've left me with. And, in my experience, people who have this kind of personality have a very hard time picturing the sort of scenario described.
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The cab driver in question may very well have engaged in more passive acts of defence such as trying to pull his hand away, but something more aggressive, such as pushing her off, striking her, etc may have made him freeze up

For some reason I keep thinking of this story, so I'll use it just as an example (albeit not a good one). I don't know if you remember or ever saw the story of the man who was on a subway and these three witches got on and started harassing him relentlessly. Verbally raising their voices and insulting him, getting in his face, etc etc etc. He told them multiple times to leave him alone. Finally he tried to walk away and one of them took off her stilleto and hit him in the head with it.
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That was the final straw and he turned around and hit her, once, in the face. She went down like a rock.
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Luckily there were many witnesses so she couldn't claim assault (which is something that can happen... usually doesn't end well for the guy), but the guy was pretty much in tears after the whole thing. Because he had never wanted to hurt a woman. And he felt so horrific about the entire thing. Even though it wasn't his fault, even though he was within his rights, he was horrendously upset

I read at some point some accounts from male rape victims who share their reasoning and such which is probably more eloquent than I could word it. I imagine it falls under the "freeze" category of "fight, flight, or freeze."
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Sorry I haven't slept much and I'm decently tired so I'm not explaining this well

I think you're seeing me that way in order to dismiss what I'm saying.
Those are two VERY different scenarios.

No I'm not seeing you that way to dismiss what you're saying. That's genuinely the impression you've always left me with haha. You seem very self assured and confident in your opinions, regardless of whether they piss people off or not. If that's incorrect then I guess I've gotten the wrong impression of you.
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Tbh I didn't think I'd dismissed what you'd said at all, I was making a genuine attempt to elaborate on what the men and women in these situations experience, where they're not necessarily being threatened with a weapon, but don't feel like they should "rock the boat." They either reason with themselves that it's not so bad, "Just bear it, it'll be over soon. Don't rock the boat." Or else they make excuses for their assailant. Some of them genuinely don't even know HOW to make something stop when an initial "no" hasn't worked, and yet they're not technically in any pain

Rape and hitting someone are, indeed, very different, and I wasn't attempting to imply they are the same. But the basic concept of aggression and violence are linked, and to some people in those situations it's very hard for them to untangle their reservations enough to say "I have a right to defend myself now, and if they get hurt it's not my fault." And "if this escalates further I can handle that."
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This is, of course, for the men who aren't afraid of the repercussions of being accused of assault, which is actually a common reservation for men

I found one account, written by a male rape victim, although it's not the one I was looking for. But this was his perspective:

"All right," they say, "then why didn't you just shove her off?"
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First, think about how horrific that question sounds when asked of a female victim, since most people will accept that a 120 pound woman isn't able to overpower a rampaging rape monster two and a half times her size. But even people who would never ask a female victim that assume I could easily have fought off some girl. You know, if I'd really wanted to.
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There are actually several reasons why I didn't physically defend myself. First, how about the fact that I don't want to inflict violence on anyone, regardless of who they are or what they're doing? You know, like most of you -- all of us have been put into situations that maybe could have been solved by physical force, yet most of us haven't been in a fistfight since grade school.

I'm a pacifist, but really so are most of us in polite society -- it's crazy to ever ask a crime victim, "But why didn't you just overpower your attacker?" Hell, Sugar Ray Leonard was sexually assaulted as a young man, when he was already an Olympic contender on his way to becoming a prizefighter. Don't you think he would have stopped that if he could have? It's not the same thing as fighting off a mugger -- all of your physical strength becomes useless, because your attacker makes you feel powerless. All of society's messages about what's happening are wrong.
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And then there's just the fact that I'm not a big guy. The average man is stronger than the average woman, but there's definitely some overlap in those statistics. And while maybe I could have physically stopped her if I was at full strength, I was blackout drunk at the time -- I couldn't have wrestled a hamster to the ground, let alone a grown adult.

But even all of that is just avoiding the obvious: imagine I had fought back. Now imagine me trying to explain that to a courtroom after the fact: "Yes, she's bruised, your honor, and yes, I'm the one who beat her up, and yes, I am injury-free, but I swear I thought she was going to force me to have sex with her." That's a surefire way to win a game of "Let's Go to Prison" in a single move.
So, yes, I've suffered my share of victim-blaming. Just like a woman in my situation, my entire sexual history was called into question, and just like a woman, my sexual history is irrelevant -- I could've banged every girl in the county, it doesn't mean I can't ever say no. My relationship with my girlfriend fell apart pretty soon afterward, partially because, for a long time, she didn't really believe I'd been raped either, treating it as if I'd cheated on her. I'd also completely lost interest in sex, turning to porn to regain the control over the sexuality I felt I'd lost (which is a very commo

...common response in rape victims)
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The parallels are there at every turn, but that one simple change -- switching the genders -- suddenly makes my story impossible to swallow."
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http://www.cracked.com/personal-experiences-1666-5-awful-realities-being-man-who-was-raped-by-woman.html

Additionally, I mentioned the self-defence lessons earlier, it may interest you to know that a lot of them have started spending time teaching people how to say no to things as simple as letting someone borrow a pen. Admittedly this is mostly women, but they've found that this is one of the main issues with teaching people defensive moves is a lot of people are still extremely reluctant to use them.
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Additionally, attackers tend to progress their aggression slowly. Could start with something as simple as entering your personal space. You're not entirely comfortable, but they haven't really done anything WRONG, and you don't want to make waves. And, okay, maybe they're standing a little closer now, but it's not that big a deal. Etc etc etc.
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These are all things that can play a role in causing someone to freeze or be reluctant to defend themselves. We don't know if the cab driver would have lashed out eventually. But that doesn't really make what she did any less wrong

That's a lot to digest, and I'm pretty tired atm, but the main thing I wanted to get across was that the taxi driver wouldn't need to resort to violence to resist having his finger(s) forcibly inserted anywhere.
I don't buy, in this situation, the taxi driver "freezing". They deal with all kinds on nonsense on a daily basis.
If it makes a difference, I don't think you're wrong. I just feel like maybe we're speaking for different groups, if that makes sense?
tl;dr be decent to people. Some of us aren't as good as others at dealing with douchebags (of the male OR female variety).

Tbh I'm kind of skeptical how much his fingers could have been inserted into anything, at least for an extended length of time, but it's impossible to know.
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Either way yes haha it is a lot to digest. It's just an important topic and I wanted to make sure I was explaining it correctly. It felt like I'd scuppered it up the first few times so I may have gotten a bit long winded. Still, thanks for taking the time to read what you did and discuss it
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It's possible his particular scenario he may have been able to resist more... or perhaps it was exaggerated. Her blatant disregard about acquiring any level of consent is disturbing and disgusting either way, but that's another matter
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As you say, at the end of the day if we're all just decent to each other this wouldn't even be an issue

Also @guest_ I think you raised some good points. At this point I've lost track of them all, sadly-- it's been a busy funsub night it seems. I can admit that Consent can be a slightly grey area... but I think, as you say, unless it's someone you know completely and thoroughly, you need to keep consent very black and white. For your protection and theirs.
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Tbh I think just about anytime a person who barely knows you is so drunk they can barely hang onto the floor without falling off, anything you do to them is a violation of their rights. Whether they choose to press charges after is something else. At the same time I would never want to pressure anyone into FEELING victimized. I think it becomes even more difficult with men because, often even when they feel something is off in a scenario like this, they also feel like they're better off just shrugging it off

As a side note-- I'm sure you don't, but just in case don't feel obligated to defend me any amount either. you've got a lot of very good points to raise on a lot of topics, and I'd hate to see you wasting time on me here haha

@xvarnah- I would agree by and large. Me and my current long term partner didn’t even kiss until several dates in (a slow pace for us both) but that was simply because they had drank on our first few dates, and my rule is 1 drink is 1 too many because you never quite know how that night effect a person. I do not believe it is wise, nor respectful of another to force yourself into their personal space wether you think they’re willing or not. Currently it is very common to “gently escalate” as a person reciprocates as opposed to telegraphing “may I touch your hand?” “Are you comfortable if I get closer to you?” “May I kiss you now?” “Are you alright if I use my tongue?” And so forth- especially once sex has initiated it is very rare to say, while locked at the genitals: “may I now caress your thighs?” “Are you alright if I kiss your neck?” We can’t assume that because the person was alright with us doing any of these things to initiate, or because they allowed penetration, that they...

... would be alright in the moment. However most of us aren’t used to, and many find off putting, that level of communication in consent. So it gets sticky. It’s complex. In general though, the less you know a person and the less contact the two of you have had of a sexual nature the more one should be cautious. I can agree that you potentially violate a person by making aggressive advances- but I can’t agree that to do so is by default is a violation of their rights. However I think it’s stupid, wreckless, and dangerous and that it should not be done, especially when a person is drunk. But it is again- complex. I’ve known many people who enjoyed getting drunk and having sex with strangers in their youth. Or who were emotionally damaged and self destructive and that was their method of choice. There is a social component to alchohol as well as a sexual component and separating the two is a cultural issue that does mirk up the waters a bit. All in all though- My 1 drink rule...

... if you never drive a car or engage with another person sexually who has had even 1 drink- you will not run into common problems. You don’t lose anything in those cases by playing it safe, you’re being responsible and prudent and weighted against the potential harm to yourself and others- it’s my hard rule. Essentially No one wants to be a rapist. Even most rapists try desperately to make some justification as to why they aren’t a rapist. At some point in modern romance as it exists today we must run some risk of making a person even slightly uncomfortable, however one must mitigate that risk to the utmost, show respect and consideration, and if necessary stop or slow things down so that we can remain objective and behave appropriately. Sadly it is hard to define rape with clean borders, and the extremes of the scope either leave a wake of powerless victims or a society where human interaction is all but impossible as any interaction sexual or not can effect feelings.

** as for defending you- you certainly do not need to be defended, and I apologize if I stepped on your toes or made you feel like I was trying to diminish your autonomy. Sometimes when I read through threads and find something interesting, I want to reply and so I’ll often start by referencing a person from that thread who has made points I agree with, or by addressing a person who disagrees with points that I agree with in the thread, and so I generally supply the name of the person who originally posted as to not only link the continuity but to also make clear that they were the first party to express the idea in that thread. Credit where do sort of thing.

@guest_ no no I wasn't saying "hey, I'm good, back off." I was just saying I'm okay in this instance, I guess? Regardless of how I came off, or the impression left, it didn't hurt my feelings or rile me up any. Idk I was quite tired when I wrote that, and while it made sense to me at the time, now I'm not explaining myself well (hardly new <_<). I appreciate what you said. :) Feel free to disregard the entire thing.

It’s no worries, and I wouldn’t feel some way regardless. The beauty of respect is that I don’t have to ask for an explaination, although I appreciate you taking the effort to explain. I just have to respect you and do my best to be considerate. Likewise, I was just trying to communicate my thought process. Just so that now and in the future we could each have some insight into how the other thinks. All is well and on my end there is no emotional or other negativity. I just wanted to make it clear that I respect you and feel like you are a capable person and I would not seek to diminish or detract from you.

Locked at the Genitals would make a good name for a band.
Just sayin'.

@guest_ I feel like we're rapidly devolving into a Canadian stand-off now x)
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"No, no, you didn't offend me! I respect YOU."
"No, I respect YOU!"
"But not as much as I respect YOU!"
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@matthewg I'd be a little nervous about their songs tbh haha

@xvarnah- lol.

I'd be a little excited by them.